Triton Ice Box

Triton106 · Post by **Triton106** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:12 am

It seems that one project can lead to another in ways that is not intended or planned. I have been meaning to improve the ice box on my west coast Triton but that is very low on my priority list since I hardly ever use it. I have been working on the shelves above the port settee to enclose the forward and aft ends (about 24" on each side) to create a electrical panel and a storage area. I am also completely redoing the galley area to install a larger sink and replace the plywood countertop with a Corian countertop. Although the projects are not completely finished the improvement is striking compared with the old ice box. So the ice box has to go!

I tore out the ice box top and lid which enabled me to access the shelves and plywood cover board. I never liked the way the shelves are designed. It is nearly impossible to reach anything one puts on the shelves. So I decided to tear out the shelves and the face board at the same time. I am very pleased that I did that for the conditions they were in are atrocious.

After that I stared the factory original fiberglass ice box liner for a long time. It is really well designed (this is a west coast Triton and the ice box is accessed from the top, different from the east coast Tritons) and executed. However, there is no way to add 4 inches of polyiso insulation material which I plan to do. There just is not enough space between the liner and the plywood bulkheads that surround it. At the best I can add two inches of insulation which is really insufficient based on everything I have read (Nigel, Don Casey, Tim...) After about half an hour I made up my mind to cut it out and build a new box based on the method Tim and Nathan described in detail on their website.

Cutting out the ice box liner was not as difficult as I thought although it did cost me a 4-1/2" cutoff wheel and couple of small Dremel cutoff wheels. After I yanked the two half pieces out of the box where it has been sitting in for over fourty years I felt victorious. I wish I had a camera to take some pictures of process.

I now konw how Nathan felt after he took out his ice box with Tim's help.

After I pulled out the liner I finally had the opptunity to see what Aero Marine used to insulate the ice box. They used 1" thick insulation material that is commonly used for houses, which in addition to being a poor insulation material for ice boxes is in a terrible shape after 40 plus years. What's more, the additional foam that I sprayed into the cavity couple of years ago using the can sprays through 1/4" holes drilled around the box barely made any difference. Most of it settled into the bottom and corners of the cavity. Even in those areas it is at most 2" thick.

Finally, there is a puddle of water accumulated at the bottom of the box. I guess the water in the ice box did not all drain into the bilge. The drainage hose is already hardened and brittle and the joint with the drain fitting had a crack in it.

I will be putting a proper ice box together over the next several weekends and expect that I will have many questions. The first questions I have now are (1) are two layers of 2" polyiso better than four layers of 1" polyiso? (2) How many sheets I need to buy? (3) What is the best tool to cut it? (4) Do I need to glue the layers together with epoxy?

kendall · Post by **kendall** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:24 pm

Having recently removed the icebox on my Ariel, and looked seriously at the Triton earlier with the same idea, I know how good it feels to finally get it out!

On the foam question, I'd go with the four layers of 1" foam, theory being that each layer will act as a thermal break. Pretty much the same way that wearing several layers of clothes is warmer than one layer the same thickness. No evidence to support it, just a theory.

Will have to look up the other icebox rebuilds you've mentioned. I've almost decided to completely rearrange everything in the Ariel, but I'm still in 'looking at a hole' stage.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:12 am

My understanding is that although the "iso" has a higher r value than regular blue foam board the "iso" will absorb moisure and eventually lose its insulating properties. I'm planning on doing this job someday myself and most of what I've seen suggests that blue or pink board is the better option. The 1" layers may allow you to stagger the seams better.
Good luck!
David

Post by **Tim** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:17 am

Multiple thinner layers may be a tad more efficient than fewer thicker layers, with the trapped air between layers as Ken suggests, but in the end I doubt either way would make a noticeable difference in how the icebox works. Use whichever thickness is more readily available and with which you prefer to work. Either version is going to be vastly better than what you took out.

You can cut it with anything: utility knife, serrated knife, handsaw, jigsaw, whatever. It's very dusty when you cut it with power tools.

You don't need to glue the layers together, but be sure to stagger/overlap your seams at the corners.

You'll have to figure your sheet quantity based on the square footage you need for each layer for your specific box--just a rough LxWxH measurement for each side you are covering, times the number of layers. Foamboard is cheap, so buy an extra sheet.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:04 pm

David,

I was going to mention something similar about the "iso," although it's been so long since I did my research (insulating a cabin) that I felt a bit hesitant to pipe in.

In my case I did use one thin layer of "iso" just so that I could get the foil layer (it was in a non-vented roof) -- it wasn't available to me on extruded polystyrene but did come bonded to "iso" -- but then I used extruded polystyrene for the bulk of the insulation.

I (hoped that I) didn't have a moisture concern, but I'm pretty sure that I read that "iso" just loses some "R" value naturally over time (more than extruded does).

Might be something to at least research before going ahead.

Also, the extruded seemed a bit nicer to work with in terms of cutting and shaping, etc.

One more (potentially outdated) note is that when I was doing my project, the different colors of extruded polystyrene were though to be of different quality/toughness levels. At that time it was the blue that was touted to be the best (vs. pink or yellow).

I worked with it all in a pre-Internet world, so all my information was from books or magazines (gad, how DID we find out anything back then).

Rachel

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:57 pm

Hi Rachel,
I think your roof will be fine. My understanding is that it is the particularly moist environment of ice box insulation that makes iso absorb H2O. Mind you this too is internet info so it may not be factual.
This internet stuff is a lot different than waiting for the latest Marine Book Club purchase to arrive!
Cheers,
David

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:59 pm

No worries on the roof. First of all it was completely dry, and second of all there was a plastic vapor barrier. Third of all there was only 1/2" of "iso" but 4" of extruded polystyrene.

Fourth of all I sold it in 1997 ;)

Rachel

kendall · Post by **kendall** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:05 pm

most of the yellow board is cut into sheets from one large block, so the surface is porous. The blue and pink stuff is normally extruded, so the outside is a pretty vapor tight skin. Which should make it a better choice for an icebox.

You can force air through the yellow stuff with lung pressure, but not the blue or pink, (unless you've sanded it) it's why the yellow stuff is most often sold with a vapor barrier applied.

Also, being in construction and doing a lot of remodels, I've noticed that the yellow iso stuff gets brittle with age, and the surface will crumble just rubbing you're hand across it, even when it hasn't been in the sun.

I think any foam will last and provide good service if it's well sealed.

Ken.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:11 am

Rachel wrote:
One more (potentially outdated) note is that when I was doing my project, the different colors of extruded polystyrene were though to be of different quality/toughness levels. At that time it was the blue that was touted to be the best (vs. pink or yellow).

And red cars are faster ;>)

There are so many rigid insulation products and manufacturers now that I doubt color means anything any more, if it ever did. Read the specs.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:15 pm

Yes, absolutely read the specs. I probably shouldn't even have mentioned that, it was so anecdotal. But just for the record, I was talking about different colors of the same product. i.e. they were all extruded polystyrenes, with the exact same R-value.

It was harder to get information back then; thank goodness for now.

R.

Triton106 · Post by **Triton106** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:14 am

Thanks Kendall, Rachel for bringing up the polystyrene angle. It conflicts with everything I have read about homemade ice boxes. I thought polyiso is the preferred material but I am not so sure now. Going through Dow's website to look up the different extruded styroform materials only caused more confusion as there are sooooooo many different kinds. Now I really need help with choosing between polyiso and polystyrene boards. Please HELP!

Post by **Tim** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:54 am

Abandon hope all ye who enter here.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:00 am

Take a look at kollman-marine.com to get some pretty good advice on iceboxes and refrigeration. I think you'll find some answers there under the Technical Updates section. I've got no affiliation or experience with Kollman but he seems to have some practical info.
Good luck, David

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:44 pm

This is interesting... SO many different thoughts on the subject. The Kollman marine site mentions 4-6mil plastic. This is the first time I'm even hearing this although it makes perfect sense.

I had originally plan on using 4" of foam utilizing 1/2" blue foam from Home Depot with a layer of foil in between each layer & staggered joints finished up by a 1/2" plywood for the interior.

So the plastic should go on as the last layer just before adding the plywood to the inside of the box? One sheet with no cuts to act as a sort of pool to collect any cool air? Am I correct in this thinking? I just started adding cleat stock to start the cooler and I want to be sure to get this as good as possible the 1st time.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:50 pm

I can relate to the picture above... Took FOREVER to be able to get this out. In the end the bulkhead to the centerline of the boat was so rotten from water that we just yanked that out and removed the box that way.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:23 pm

I would think that the red vapour barrier tape would work well to make a smooth cover without gaps or leaks. I believe he suggests completely encapsulating the foam with vapou barrier so also put in around the outside.
David

Triton106 · Post by **Triton106** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:34 am

Ok, I give up... So far this is what I can learned:

Supporting polyurethane (similar to polyiso) board:

Don Casey ("The appropriate insulation is rigid polyurethane, not styrofoam")
Nigel Calder ("polystyrene should never be used")
Practical Sailor
SailNet

Supporting extruded polystyrene board:

Boats.com
Great Water, Inc.
Glacier Bay ("Extruded polystyrene is the best type of foam insulation")

I guess it is a toss up and either way it will be better than what I had.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:56 am

I think that perhaps part of the problem is that there are two common polystyrene insulation products, plus the "iso" -- all can be known as foam board.

Expanded polystyrene is the "old white cooler" material that comes apart into a million floating white beads, and is probably the one not recommended. It's not as sturdy as extruded, and I think does not have as much R-value (R-3.5 per inch?). I think of this one as "styrofoam."

Extruded polystyrene, is the firm, non "beady" stuff that you can buy at Home Depot or wherever, and is often pink or blue. R-5 per inch if I remember correctly.

Then you have polyisocyanurate, which is also a "board" product, and has slightly more R-value per inch than extruded polystyrene (6-ish?). It's often creamy-yellow in color and is a bit "hairy" compared to extruded. It often has a foil side. As I mentioned above, when I was researching it I remember this being said to potentially lose more R-value over time than extruded. Also, I think it's more prone to soaking up water.

So, all of the above could be called foam board. I would consider the last two to be contenders, and, if I were not going to do any current research, would probably choose extruded, possibly with some foil or foam mixed in.

Foam is important, but so is your lid design. And I think a huge help is something like a loose sheet of Reflectix that you can place on top of the food, and then reach under it when you open the lid to get something.

I hope this helps and is not too outdated :)

Rachel

Post by **Tim** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:22 am

This is what you don't want (well, there are many features of this photo that you don't want, but specifically the beady white styrofoam junk):

I have also heard the anecdotal information that polyisocyanurate (R 7.2/inch) absorbs moisture over time; I have not seen any documentation to this effect, which doesn't mean said documentation doesn't exist--it only means I've never looked for actual documented confirmation.

However, I wouldn't undertake heroic efforts to prove or disprove the moisture issue: it'd be easier to just use a product that doesn't have this potential issue hanging over its head.

Therefore, the standard blue or pink extruded foam board, available absolutely everywhere in a variety of thicknesses and configurations, might be the best practical choice in terms of decent R value, low price, and ease of availability. It will be vastly superior to whatever you took out, even if it's not as perfect as theoretically possible. Do try to get a minimum of 4" all around. If you can possibly squeeze in more, then do so.

I don't have a picture of this product, but everyone knows what it is.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:20 am

Yep Rachel, that is exactly my take on the foam types. Some interchange the names and create confusion. I imagine that carefully installed blueboard foam with vapour and foil barriers will be far, far superior to 99% of our current (well not very current really) factory jobs and quite cost effective. It is the route I plan to take someday. The vacuum panels are unnecessary on my boat and I'd rather spend the extra $$ on stuff for IN my icebox. Or fancy countertops for the Admiral. Or a new jib, no wait- an autopilot...
Cheers, David

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:26 pm

And just to be extra clear (as I understand how it can be mind-boggling when you want to do the right thing and your research gives you seemingly - or actual - contradictory information):

The messy, white, beady foam that Tim shows in his photo is the one I listed first, i.e. "Expanded polystyrene" or, I believe, Styrofoam™ You don't want that one.

R.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:59 pm

the standard blue or pink extruded foam board ... I don't have a picture of this product, but everyone knows what it is.

Triton106 · Post by **Triton106** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:19 pm

Sometimes I don't understand how things work. It seems that everyone on this forum has heard blue foam board. It also seems that everyone thinks that one should have no trouble finding them in a local lumber yard. Well, not the case in the SF Bay Area. Home Depot, never heard of them; Lowes, never heard of them; Truitt and White (local lumber yard that has just about every hard to find construction material), never heard of them; Ashby Lumber, never heard of them.

Then I went on Cruiser Forum and several sailors in Florida also could not find blue foam board either. My conclusion is that retailers just don't carry them in warmer climate. However, for whatever reason everyone carries polyiso foam board in any thickness I want from 1" to 4". Go figure. I guess my icebox is meant to be insulated by polyiso board.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:20 am

Must be frustrating when we're all used to seeing it stocked like loaves of bread at our local building suppliers and you can't find it. I wonder if one of the chains like Home Depot could order a sheet in, since I know they stock it at all of their northern stores? Or maybe if you Googled "extruded polystyrene" you could find a place to order it from. What a pain that you can't get it locally.

I actually found 1" pink extruded board in Key West of all places, at an Ace Hardware, but that was their ultimate thickness (!)

I wonder if warm places stock the "iso" because the foil is supposed to reflect radiant heat (so in warm climates you put the foil layer to the outside when insulating a building).

Still though, the Bay area isn't that warm, is it?

BTW, I Googled, and it looks like Owens Corning makes the pink, and Dow the blue (and the Styrofoam brand belongs to Dow, and does not any longer simply refer to the beady white expanded stuff).

Ah, the plot thickens: I Googled "buy extruded polystyrene California" and one of the first hits was someone on a model makingforum who was trying to buy it in California and having a hard time finding it...

Someone replied and said this on January 5, 2008:

As far as I can recall, California does not allow pink/blue foam in their construction because of environmental concerns. Thus, getting ahold of some of it may prove to be difficult. I know this isn't much help, but I thought I'd pass the information along.

Reading more, someone said that builders in Cali have to get specific approval to use it. The person who was inquiring managed to buy some smaller pieces from someone. Here's a link to the thread which might give you some ideas/information:

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11811

Sheesh, no wonder you're having a hard time!

Rachel

David · Post by **David** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:31 pm

In researching Dow Blue board I leaned that at least some of the blue board extruded polystyrene products are treated for termite control and perhaps should not be used in an enclosed area like the interior of a boat. The board I looked at on the Dow site is also known as the square edge board because it does not have a tongue and groove edge as some of the blue board products do. Pasted from the Dow website:

STYROFOAM™ BLUEGUARD™ (U.S. Only)
Termite-resistant STYROFOAM™ Brand BLUEGUARD™ Insulation is specifically designed for insulating foundations in areas with termite activity. The extruded polystyrene insulation contains deltamethrin insecticide, which protects the foam from termites and other wood-destroying insects.

Building Code Compliance

Complies with ASTM C578 Type IV. Meets IBC/IRC requirements for foam plastic insulation and acceptance requirements of ICC-ES EG-239 for termite-resistant foam plastic (ICC-ES NER-699 update in progress). UL Classified for Surface Burning Characteristics. Calif. Std. Reg. # CA T064.

Related Information

Installation Recommendations for STYROFOAM™ BLUEGUARD™ Exterior Foundation, Interior Crawl Space, Under Slab (205KB PDF
STYROFOAM™ BLUEGUARD™ Extruded Polystyrene Insulation Product Information (114KB PDF)
For the Best Protection Against Termites ... Insulate and Protect with STYROFOAM™ BLUEGUARD™ (164 KB PDF)
15-year Limited Termite Resistant Warranty (156KB PDF)

STYROFOAM™ Brand BLUEGUARD™ Insulation is termite-resistant and specifically designed for insulating foundations in areas with termite activity.

Nominal Board Thickness(1), in R-Value(2) Board Size, ft Edge Treatment Min Compressive Strength(3), psi
1.0 5.0 4' x 8 Square Edge/Shiplap 25
1.5 7.5 4' x 8 Square Edge/Shiplap 25
2.0 10.0 4' x 8 Square Edge/Shiplap 25
(1) Not all product sizes are available in all regions.

(2) R means resistance to heat flow. The higher the R-value, the greater the insulating power. R-values are expressed in ft2• h•°F/Btu. R-value determined by ASTM C518.

(3) Vertical compressive strength is measured at 10% deformation (5% for STYROFOAM™ Brand PLAZAMATE™ Insulation and for STYROFOAM™ Brand HIGHLOAD Insulation - 40, 60 and 100 products) or at yield, whichever occurs first. Since STYROFOAM™ Brand Extruded Polystyrene and Dow polyisocyanurate insulation products are visco-elastic materials, adequate design safety factors should be used to prevent long-term creep. For static loads, 3:1 is suggested. For dynamic loads, 5:1 is suggested.

STYROFOAM™ Brand BLUEGUARD™ Insulation contains an insecticide. Gloves are required when handling. Long-sleeve shirt and pants are also recommended. See the Material Safety Data Sheet for more information.

STYROFOAM™ Brand BLUEGUARD™ Insulation is a termite-resistant insulation, not a barrier system. Normal code-approved treatments are required to protect the home from termites. STYROFOAM™ Brand BLUEGUARD™ Insulation should be used in conjunction with a total insect management program available from a reputable pest management professional.

__________________________________

Blue Cavitymate or one of the other Dow bloe board products seems to be the stuff to use, not the Blueguard. The Cavitymate comes in thicknesses up to 3 inches, but Dow makes only certain thicknesses available in certain regions. Again quoting from their website:

STYROFOAM™ Brand CAVITYMATE™ Insulation
STYROFOAM™ Brand CAVITYMATE™ Insulation is produced in a special 16" (400 mm) width, making it easy to fit between brick ties in cavity wall applications. This Type X extruded polystyrene solution is designed for use in wet cavity wall environments, offering high moisture resistance, durability and excellent thermal performance. Available in butt edge and shiplap edge treatments.

Building Code Compliance

Complies with ASTM C578 Type X. Meets IBC/IRC requirements for foam plastic insulation. Meets CAN/ULC S701 Type 3. See ICC-ES NER-699, BOCA-ES RR 21-02. UL Classified, see Classification Certificate D369.

Related Information

STYROFOAM™ CAVITYMATE™ Extruded Polystyrene Insulation Product Information (102KB PDF)

U.S. Commercial
Canada Commercial
U.S. CommercialCanada CommercialSpecially designed for wet cavity wall environments, STYROFOAM™ Brand CAVITYMATE™ Insulation is produced in a special 16" width that fits easily between brick ties in cavity wall applications.

Nominal Board Thickness(1), in R-Value(2) Board Size, ft Edge Treatment Min Compressive Strength(3), psi
1.0 5.0 16 x 96 Square Edge 15
1.5 7.5 16 x 96 Square Edge 15
2.0 10.0 16 x 96 Square Edge 15
3.0 15.0 16 x 96 Square Edge 15
(1) Not all product sizes are available in all regions.

_______________________________

The website link is:
http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/ ... m#Extruded

David · Post by **David** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:41 pm

Owens Corning pink extruded polystyrene doesn't seem to have a similar insecticide treated product. The foam board is known as Foamular and comes in thicknesses up to 2 inches.

Quoting from their product sheet:

sheathing and other applications.
Owens Corning’s patented
Hydrovac® process technology
makes the unique closed-cell
structure of FOAMULAR
insulation highly resistant to
moisture, retaining its long term
R-value* year after year – even
following prolonged exposure to
water leakage, humidity, condensation,
groundwater and freeze/
thaw cycling.
Thermal conductivity - “k”3
(Btu x in/hr x ft2 x °F)
@ 75°F mean temperature
@ 40°F mean temperature
ASTM C 518
0.20
0.18
Thermal Resistance - “R”, minimum
(°F x ft2 x h/btu)
@ 75°F mean temperature
@ 40°F mean temperature
(K x m2/W)
@ 75°F mean temperature
@ 40°F mean temperature
ASTM C 518
Compressive Strength, minimum (lb/in2)4 ASTM D 1621 15.0
Flexural Strength (lb/in2 min)5 ASTM C 203 60
Water Absorption (% by volume max)6 ASTM C 272 0.10
Water Vapor Permeance (perm max)7 ASTM E 96 1.1
Water Affi nity — hydrophobic

___________________________

However, they specifically note that all products are not available in all areas: Note
All products described here may
not be available in all geographic
markets. Consult your local sales
offi ce representative for more
information.

Only Home Depot in Orlando carries the pink board, not Lowes, and only in a max thickness of 1 inch.

The Owens Corning website is:
http://insulation.owenscorning.com/home ... r-150.aspx

David · Post by **David** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:51 pm

Rachel wrote:Must be frustrating when we're all used to seeing it stocked like loaves of bread at our local building suppliers and you can't find it. I wonder if one of the chains like Home Depot could order a sheet in, since I know they stock it at all of their northern stores? Or maybe if you Googled "extruded polystyrene" you could find a place to order it from. What a pain that you can't get it locally.

I actually found 1" pink extruded board in Key West of all places, at an Ace Hardware, but that was their ultimate thickness (!)

I wonder if warm places stock the "iso" because the foil is supposed to reflect radiant heat (so in warm climates you put the foil layer to the outside when insulating a building).

Still though, the Bay area isn't that warm, is it?

BTW, I Googled, and it looks like Owens Corning makes the pink, and Dow the blue (and the Styrofoam brand belongs to Dow, and does not any longer simply refer to the beady white expanded stuff).

Ah, the plot thickens: I Googled "buy extruded polystyrene California" and one of the first hits was someone on a model makingforum who was trying to buy it in California and having a hard time finding it...

Someone replied and said this on January 5, 2008:

As far as I can recall, California does not allow pink/blue foam in their construction because of environmental concerns. Thus, getting ahold of some of it may prove to be difficult. I know this isn't much help, but I thought I'd pass the information along.

Reading more, someone said that builders in Cali have to get specific approval to use it. The person who was inquiring managed to buy some smaller pieces from someone. Here's a link to the thread which might give you some ideas/information:

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11811

Sheesh, no wonder you're having a hard time!

Rachel

Owens Corning Pink foamboard is available all over California.
In the SF area you can find it at:
Search:

Only Residential Insulation
All Owens Corning Sites Return to search criteria Get InsulationInsulation professionals within a 5 10 20 50 100 mile radius of 94080:

Tri County South San Francisco
276 MICHELLE COURT
SOUTH SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94080
Phone: 650-952-4632
FAX: 408-567-9555

Distance: 0 miles
Home Depot At Home Services
2373 Lincoln Ave
Hayward, CA 94545
Phone: 1-800-HOMEDEPOT
Website
Distance: 24 miles
Coast Building Products
1920 Mark Ct # 100

Search:

Only Residential Insulation
All Owens Corning Sites Return to search criteria Get InsulationInsulation professionals within a 5 10 20 50 100 mile radius of 94080:

Tri County South San Francisco
276 MICHELLE COURT
SOUTH SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94080
Phone: 650-952-4632
FAX: 408-567-9555

Distance: 0 miles
Home Depot At Home Services
2373 Lincoln Ave
Hayward, CA 94545
Phone: 1-800-HOMEDEPOT
Website
Distance: 24 miles
Coast Building Products
1920 Mark Ct # 100
Concord, CA 94520
Phone: 925-671-8111

Distance: 36 miles
Tri County Santa Clara
910 George Street
Santa Clara, CA 95054
Phone: 831-475-2205
FAX: 408-567-9555

Distance: 38 miles
Coast Building Products
1341 OAKLAND RD
San Jose, CA 95112
Phone: 408-882-0411

Distance: 43 miles

From the OC website search for retail outlets.

Post by **Tim** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:02 pm

Triton106 wrote: I guess my icebox is meant to be insulated by polyiso board.

There you have it. Use the material you can get and move the project forward.

Triton106 · Post by **Triton106** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:52 am

Finally, having located a local supplier of extruded polystyrene foam board (thanks Rachel for your tip) I have been moving forward with the ice box reconstruction project. I spent the last weekend cutting four 2x8 2 inch foam board to fit into the empty void that once housed the original ice box. My wife thought I ordered way too much material because she cannot fathom how four 2x8 2 inch foam boards can fit into our Triton. She did not know using my measure once and cut twice principal I managed to accumulate a pile of wasted boards that don't fit the space snugly and have to be discarded. In any case I managed to finish the first step and I now have all of the pieces that fit nicely in the shell. I put two layers of two inch foams around the four sides of the box and the bottom. I was going to use two layers for the top as well but once I stared at what is left of the spce I decided that if I want to be able to store more than just an apple in the ice box I better use just one layer on the top. I don't know what kind boat Don Casey owns but he recommends 6 inch insulations all around! I know using only two inch on the top will significantly reduce the insulation value of the box but life on a small boat is full of compromises. I am sure I will be getting responses from folks that tell me that I made a mistake. That may be but it's my boat and I get to decide what I want OK! So just drop it ;<

Ok, here are my questions:

1. I read from Casey and Spurr's boat books that I should use tin foil and polyethylene sheet before putting in the foam boards. I also read from Tim and Nathan's detailed project descriptions where they did not specifically mention the use of either material. I suppose the polyiso boards are already lined with tin foil type of lining but what about polyethylene water vapor barrier? If I want to go ahead with it what order do they go in?

2. What is the optimal thickness of plywood for the inner lining? I think Tim used 1/4" and Casey recommend 3/8". All talked about how hard it is to lay fiberglass over the inner linings one they are installed in the box. My initial thought to address that issue is to lay fiberglass mat and cloth over the plywood board *before* inner linings are installed. Doing so will alleviate the bulk of the fiberglass work and leave only the need to fiberglass the joints together with 2" and 4" tapes. You foresee any issues with this approach?

3. The construction of the lid/hatch cover - Since I am using a two inch foam board on top of the four inch side board and the plywood top sit on top of the two inch foam I am at loss as to how I can cut the plywood and foam separately and have a prefect match with a perfect bevel. Any ideas?

4. Ice water drainage - I have seen several different designs. Nathan used the water trap approach which I thought is a good idea but it seems to be complex to construct. I thought of just using a straight pvc pipe and end it with a valve but will that lead to loss of insulation where the pipe contact the outside air in the bilge?

I never thought building just a ice box (not even a refrigerator system) could be that complex. But with your helpful advices I am sure I will eventually succeed after botching up the lid or the lining or the drainage work a couple of times :)

Thanks and best regards,