MAS epoxy non-skid patterns

[Commander-147]

Has anyone here ever tried doing new non-skid patterns using the MAS epoxy patterns after recoring the deck?

I am not a fan of the sand in the paint non-skid because to me it looks like a repair job and I would like my commander to look like it was new not repaired when I finish the recore.

What other options are there that make non-skid look original and not repaired after a recore? I'm willing to spend whatever time it takes to make it right. So just because a method is a lot of work does not scare me away from it. Looking like factory original when it is done is what I'm after. Who knows if I will succeed or not but I'm sure going to try.

[Rachel]

I've seen Gibco Flex Mold used for recreating the original type non-skid patterns, although I have not done it myself. (Edited to add: Not with epoxy specifically, though.)

Rachel

[Commander-147]

Rachel

How did it come out? Were you impressed or unimpressed?

[Rachel]

What I saw done was one panel on the deck of a 49' trawler that had multiple panels of non-skid. I think they molded it in gelcoat, but I can't remember for sure, sorry. It looked pretty good when they were done, although I haven't been able to take a look at the boat again after use and time, to see how it held up.

There was not a Gibco pattern that exactly matched the original, but a custom pattern mold would have been quite expensive for just the one panel, so they went with one that was very close.

I happen to prefer the more old-fashioned, all-over non-skid (grit) look, but since you prefer the pattern type it might work well for you. The one thing I would wonder about would be the fact that you would be "molding" the panels out in plain air, vs. having them on the inside of a female mold like they would have been made originally. Perhaps this is a good application for vacuum bagging? I'm not sure but perhaps others will chime in.

Rachel

[Commander-147]

Thanks Rachal

I've asked MAS Epoxy for referances (and yes I know they will only give me people they think will give me a positive report) hoping I can get some honest feedback from some of those that they give me.

I'm really suprised someone here has not used it. Maybe It's just something new enough that folks are not willing to take a chance.

[JohnS]

If you're re-doing all the non-skid and have large areas to cover, the MAS patterns could be a pretty pricey option at $50/sq.ft. (On the video, the rep said they sell 4x8 sheets - thats $1600!) The factory nonskid on some boats I've seen looks like it was made using some kind of coarse woven fabric mat as the female pattern. MANY years ago I tried finishing a small (3"x3") fiberglass job in a nonskid area by spreading silicon sealant on an undamaged area, and using that as mold/pattern. It sorta worked, but I only got the pattern to line up on one edge. (It was a very fine pattern and the silicon was stretchy.)

If you're redoing all the non-skid as opposed to patching, you don't have to worry about matching so much as just keeping it straight. Find some flexible, suitably textured material, coat it w/ wax and roll it on with a squeegee as they demonstrate in the video. Probably would want to try it on a scrap piece first.

[Commander-147]

John

Thanks for your reply. I have come to a very simialr conclusion. If I can get away with just doing some patches here and there I will be OK but I doubt I will be able to do that. What will probably end up happening is I sand down all the non-skid and fair it out and then use something like Interdeck or System Three LPU paint with micro ballons.

[JohnS]

Damn! I was hoping I had a volunteer guinea pig for burlap method. Oh well, we'll see how ambitious I am when I get around to doing my decks.

[Commander-147]

Huh????

The burlap method..... OK you suckered me in....

[Stubrow]

I had my deck redone with the standard Awlgrip stuff. Probably called 'awl grit or awl something. (i think they even recommend that you use 'awl rags'.) Obviously it was not a pattern, but it came out beautifully, with flawless consistancy and texture. (IOW it wasn't so abrasive as to rip the seat off your pants when you sat on it, but provides really secure footing and no one has ever slipped.) Beside all the nessary masking and prep work, I think you need to be somewhat experienced to do it right. Of course I wouldn't know since I make sure I'm at least 50 yards away when anyone even opens a can of this kind of stuff.
That was 5 years ago and it still looks good with minimal wear.

[georgefmys]

Not familiar with the MAS patterns, but have used Gibco molds many times,they work very well and of course are re-usable[if you take good care when prepping and cleaning mold]. I hate using gelcoat, so tried using Gibco mold with 2-part epoxy primer and it worked perfectly! Was then able to scotch-brite and roll [flattened] Awlgrip over the primer.I have used awlgrip 545 and also Interprotect to do this...definitely takes serious fine-motor skills on non-level or large deck surfaces-but you can get very good pattern definition and lots of patterns are available.

[Commander-147]

MY bad, The patterns MAS sells are the Gibco flex mold patterns. And thank you very much georgefmys for the 2-part epoxy primer tip for doing this. That solves a couple of issues. The biggest one being I have some recore to do and wanted to do it with epoxy materials. The epoxy primer will adhear well to those areas also unlike gel-coat.

Are there any more tips you can give me on procedures when working with the Gibco molds?

[georgefmys]

There certainly are many ways to mess up when trying this-no fault of the material...but if like me ,you are using anything other than an irregular pattern-then alignment from section to section is very tricky.Creating ''slicks''-even if old layout didn't have them helps with this. Also would recommend slight height build-up of non-skid panels...helps to detail the transition to smooth.I use 4'' wide shrinkwrap tape and razor blade to radius corners,and like the heavy rubber floats that tile guys use to press out ezcess resin and air. I;ll stop since this must be boring most who read.PM or call me if you must hear more! George 4105337932

[Rachel]

George,

Even though I'm not planning to use Gibco molds in any projects, I'm going to pipe in just to say that I think it's great you're discussing the subject on the forum. After all, that's what this thread is about.

Picture the poor searcher who comes along in the future and is thrilled to find this thread.... and then the discussion ends abruptly. :(

(Not that you *have* to continue on the forum; I don't mean that. I'm just saying don't take it offline just because you think it might be boring. If people aren't interested, they don't have to click on the thread.)

Rachel

[JohnS]

George, your contributions so far are very much in line with the purpose of this discussion. The more you're willing to share of your experience, the better. And the more detail the better, as far as I'm concerned.

In Re. your previous post: You say creating "slicks" is helpful. Pardon my ignorance, but what are "slicks"?

Also, any chance you have some pics of your work? You know how much folks here love pictures.

[Commander-147]

George

Looks like the votes are in. You obviously have some valuable insight to share and several folks here would like it very much if you would continue to share it. So instead of calling you for right now, I will ask some more questions here where others can learn along with me.

First, when you say slicks are you talking about smooth spots between non-skid areas to reduce the size of the non-skid area to make it more managable?

Second you mentioned you use 4" wide shrink wrap to make corners. How do you keep that in place? I would think it would move around and not stay put.

And third, I want to make sure I am following you correctly. You mentioned the heavy rubber floats that tile guys use. I have what I think you are talking about since I have layed a lot of tile. Is it the tool that looks like a rectangular trowel but the base is rubber and not steel?

Seems you are one of the very few here that has experience with this stuff and so your insight is something we are all looking forward to hearing more about.

[georgefmys]

Sorry,just used to people nodding off when talking boat stuff-but,of course ,thats why you all are here.Yes, slicks are the smooth channels between the non skid panels...and if you are doing entire deck,it' easiest to layout non-skid so that no one section is larger than the piece of Flex-mold you are trying to work with [bigger than about 2' x 3' can decrease your chances of a good ''pull''] I use shrink wrap tape to mask off at outside edge of non-skid.[It works like packing tape since resins don't stick to it ,but is slightly heavier and much more flexible. I getit from Protective Products.] Now that I'm thinking about it ,believe we settled on a 'J' roller rather than tile float or squegees-[J roller is used in gluing Formica,etc] Basically, you are trying to push the mold smooth and tight to deck--if it floats up on the resin or gelcoat even a little ,it ruins your pattern at least or maybe some bits cure hard ,but they are not stuck to the deck! A good idea to practice on a piece of plywood first-should be a very cheap way to refine your technique.If you prep mold really well you can get at least 3-5 pulls from it.[Dilute PVA ,at about 1:1, with water and spray several thin coats with a preval sprayer] With epoxy ,unlke gelcoat you can pull mold before 100% cure-if you get it right you can detail edges and minor defects right then[its no different than working 'green' epoxy repairs]
No pics avail. ,sorry-full disclosure,I repair boats for a living ,so any photos would probably not be my own boat[seems to be under a semi permanent tarp] Since I didnt read the forum rules, dont know if that is ok . I really enjoy this forum [and looking at the hosts beautiful work] and want to be welcome here ....

[Rachel]

Sorry,just used to people nodding off when talking boat stuff...

Isn't it fun to find a group of fellow boat detail geeks who not only don't nod off but are very interested? :D

Glad you're sticking around to post your information here in the thread.

Rachel

[Tim]

Since I didnt read the forum rules, dont know if that is ok . I really enjoy this forum [and looking at the hosts beautiful work] and want to be welcome here ....

You are welcome here, but please do take a few moments to read the forum rules. The rules are there to ensure that the forum remains a place people want to come, whether to help or be helped.

[Rachel]

I'll start this out by saying that I don't plan to use the Gibco molds because I like the more old-fashioned non-molded look. But of course that doesn't mean I can't wake up at 7 a.m. with a pressing curiosity about the method ;)

What I'm wondering is this: If one uses epoxy with the Gibco mold (instead of gelcoat), then I'm thinking it would have to be over-coated with paint in order to guard against UV (unless there is an epoxy additive or something I don't know about - which is entirely possible). Well, if you're molding the pattern with the Gibco mold, and then un-molding it and later painting it, how do you avoid that "painted over non-skid" look that people end up with when they paint over molded in non-skid? By that I mean that I associate a general "blurriness" with the painted over non-skid patterns that I've seen, which tends to fill in the pattern (when original molded non-skid is painted over years later).

Is it just that this non-skid is so fresh and new that it can be painted over and still stay well-defined? Or how does one get around that?

Rachel

[georgefmys]

Rachel-you are right that epoxy needs to be painted to offer UV protection. Depends on pattern,but I found that 2-3 coats of rolled[ or even better sprayed ]Awlgrip,only slightly softens the pattern. Wouldn't try this method at all if you weren't going to paint with LP products since its too much work to do and not get many years out of. Slightly different topic but have picked up some things over the years that help with rolling on textured Awlgrip, skips the molding step,but still gives 'factory'-looking finish. Bye for now,off to read the forum rules.

[Commander-147]

Yesterday I took the time to call George and we discussed my restoration project for quite some time. I have to say that I was very impressed with his knowledge of differant techniques to repair boats that I had not previously heard of.

For example a technique he told me about that I intend to try for the non-skid on my commander was to use Awlgrip paint in a mixture ratio of 1-part paint, 1-part flattener and 1-part hardener with a small amount of West System #406 Colloidal Silica mixed in. to thicken the paint. Then with a roller (he suggested a 1/4" mohair roller) lay two coats of this mixture down on the non-skid areas. He said with a little practice you can get a very nice texture. Then after this has set up and the smooth areas of the deck are painted you can roll on a couple more coats of the flattened paint without the 406 in it to finish it off.

It occured to me that a unique texture could be produced by using a roller cover that is designed for contact cement. You can see the type I am talking about here at this link. I believe that would give the non-skid some real depth.

http://virutex.com/texturedpebblelikeroller.aspx

Thanks George for taking the time to talk to me and I hope you will allow me the opportunity to "pick you brain" some more as I progress with my project.

[margitchris]

Has anyone ever tried cutting fiberglass window screen to shape, laying it on the deck in a bed of rolled wet epoxy, and, when cured, painting over the result?