Another 'what is this?'
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I'm curious too - I really like the way it looks.
I think this may be another photo of Spartina, bow on:
I think this may be another photo of Spartina, bow on:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I don't know how the (racing?) sail numbers work, but searching "Spartina" with the sail number in that last photo comes up with the boat type listed as "Custom."
Rats, that's not very satisfying.
Rats, that's not very satisfying.
-
- Damned Because It's All Connected
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
- Boat Name: Triton
- Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
- Location: L.I. Sound
Re: Another 'what is this?'
So very odd.
Why does the backstay go to that boomkin instead of the transom?
Why does it have running backstays at all? (it looks like the boom doesn't conflict, or at least it almost-doesn't)
Why does the backstay go to that boomkin instead of the transom?
Why does it have running backstays at all? (it looks like the boom doesn't conflict, or at least it almost-doesn't)
- Chris Campbell
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:18 am
- Boat Name: Luna
- Boat Type: Yankee 30
- Location: Chester, NS
- Contact:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I'm guessing she's a Chuck Payne design - not that that is clearing anything up, of course...
- Bluenose
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:19 pm
- Boat Name: Bolero
- Boat Type: Modified Shields One Design
- Location: Lopez Island, WA
- Contact:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I agree. I start seeing parts of this boat that I like and then run into parts that I can't make sense of.Figment wrote:So very odd.
Why does the backstay go to that boomkin instead of the transom?
Why does it have running backstays at all? (it looks like the boom doesn't conflict, or at least it almost-doesn't)
It almost seems like a boat designed by a committee.
But I guess now is a good time to remind myself that my taste are outside the norm.
- Chris Campbell
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 422
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:18 am
- Boat Name: Luna
- Boat Type: Yankee 30
- Location: Chester, NS
- Contact:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Can't see the top of the mast to know if it's fractionally rigged or not - the running backstays could be because it is (forestay tension and proper support for the rig in heavy air).
The boomkin is surprising - but presumably there is some reason, not immediately apparent, for it's existence...
The boomkin is surprising - but presumably there is some reason, not immediately apparent, for it's existence...
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Perhaps the boomkin is there to enable a mainsail with a monstrous roach. Or its there as an aesthetic choice.
Only reasons I can think of. Otherwise, its pointless.
I actually do like the boat. Its interesting, quite different. From the placement of the mast, I suspect it may be a fractionally rigged sailboat. This also caused me to think the boomkin for aesthetics because normally, you do not need a bowsprit for a fractionally rigged sailboat (not as common like for masthead rigged).
I'm 99.99 % certain its custom. I'm a hopeless boat nut and I have never seen something like this boat so that's really something...
- Case
Only reasons I can think of. Otherwise, its pointless.
I actually do like the boat. Its interesting, quite different. From the placement of the mast, I suspect it may be a fractionally rigged sailboat. This also caused me to think the boomkin for aesthetics because normally, you do not need a bowsprit for a fractionally rigged sailboat (not as common like for masthead rigged).
I'm 99.99 % certain its custom. I'm a hopeless boat nut and I have never seen something like this boat so that's really something...
- Case
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Just thought another reason for the boomkin:
Maybe the owner likes to stand right on the cockpit seats at the aft end of the cockpit. Having the backstay at the normal place... lots of head boinking with the backstay. So a boomkin is added to keep the backstay farther away.
A weird though, I know but trying to think of why the boomkin is there.
- Case
Maybe the owner likes to stand right on the cockpit seats at the aft end of the cockpit. Having the backstay at the normal place... lots of head boinking with the backstay. So a boomkin is added to keep the backstay farther away.
A weird though, I know but trying to think of why the boomkin is there.
- Case
-
- Skilled Systems Installer
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:20 pm
- Location: Tidewater, VA
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I agree w/ case that the boomkin is probably there to keep the backstay off the mainsail's roach. As for the runners, they were typically used on fractionally rigged racers, in addition to the fixed backstay, to help keep the luff of the headsail taut.
Celerity - 1970 Morgan 30
How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges in it?
How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges in it?
-
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:31 pm
- Boat Name: Paper Moon
- Boat Type: Luders 33 (Allied Boat Co.)
- Location: Mystic CT
Re: Another 'what is this?'
There is an inner forestay and judging from the almost parallel topping lift and back stay then this is a TALL rig. So possibly the boom kin is for the roach and the running backs are for the stay sail. Sounds like a lot of clap-trap for a little gain if that is the case.
Cheers
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
Re: Another 'what is this?'
On the other hand, it looks to me like Spartina has a racing/cruising PHRF rating of 171/180; not too shabby for a boat that looks fairly small.
The same list has the Luders 33 at 204/216
So sure, more to monkey with, but I don't know that I'd call it claptrap, especially if the owner likes to race as well as cruise.
Rachel
The same list has the Luders 33 at 204/216
So sure, more to monkey with, but I don't know that I'd call it claptrap, especially if the owner likes to race as well as cruise.
Rachel
-
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:31 pm
- Boat Name: Paper Moon
- Boat Type: Luders 33 (Allied Boat Co.)
- Location: Mystic CT
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Rachael,
So maybe clap-trap was not the proper word to use. To me a boomkin is a compendium of stresses that include compression as well as tensile to fight each other to hold the rig up. I sailed on a sandbagger once with a huge boomkin and an even bigger bowsprit. Sailing that boat was a whole lot of fun feeling like I was living on the edge. In a discussion with the owner, he told me that he had rebuilt the boomkin twice in 20 years and the bowsprit about 5 years earlier. He added that the stresses of the rig was very hard on the boat. Also, running backs are another complication that when operated properly by people that know what they are doing, is poetry in motion. It is also an invitation to disaster for people that do not fully understand the stresses involved and the potential consequences of bad timing. Maybe a better term would have been "complication."
Yes, my Luders 33 does not fit the category of speedster. I enjoy the simplicity. Speed has a cost that I am seldom willing to pay.
So maybe clap-trap was not the proper word to use. To me a boomkin is a compendium of stresses that include compression as well as tensile to fight each other to hold the rig up. I sailed on a sandbagger once with a huge boomkin and an even bigger bowsprit. Sailing that boat was a whole lot of fun feeling like I was living on the edge. In a discussion with the owner, he told me that he had rebuilt the boomkin twice in 20 years and the bowsprit about 5 years earlier. He added that the stresses of the rig was very hard on the boat. Also, running backs are another complication that when operated properly by people that know what they are doing, is poetry in motion. It is also an invitation to disaster for people that do not fully understand the stresses involved and the potential consequences of bad timing. Maybe a better term would have been "complication."
Yes, my Luders 33 does not fit the category of speedster. I enjoy the simplicity. Speed has a cost that I am seldom willing to pay.
Cheers
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
Dennis
Luders 33 "Paper Moon" Hull No 16
Life is too short to own an ugly boat.
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Nothing wrong with a Luders 33 - I tend to like simple boats too, and I would love to have an L-33 myself. Yet I also think the mystery boat looks neat and would be fun to sail/race.LazyGuy wrote: Yes, my Luders 33 does not fit the category of speedster. I enjoy the simplicity. Speed has a cost that I am seldom willing to pay.
Horses for courses, as they say :)
Rachel
-
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 375
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:42 pm
- Boat Name: Totoro
- Boat Type: Sea Sprite 23 (#626)
- Location: Scarborough, Maine
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I agree with Rachel. Rigging questions aside, I really like the looks of the boat aesthetically - except the deadlights. It looks like a comfy and secure cockpit with the wrap around coamings, and I like how the coaming cap is incorporated with the eye brows. With no forecabin trunk, it's got a working foredeck that rivals Bolero's.
It's got a kind of, I don't know, "stout" ruggedness to it, reminiscent to some of the Pacific Seacrafts - but it also has some nice curves too. Put a couple of bronze portals on each side and it would really look sharp. But as they say, opinions... everybody's got one. :)
I wish I'd have seen the owner and rowed over there. I'd love to see what the interior looks like too.
It's got a kind of, I don't know, "stout" ruggedness to it, reminiscent to some of the Pacific Seacrafts - but it also has some nice curves too. Put a couple of bronze portals on each side and it would really look sharp. But as they say, opinions... everybody's got one. :)
I wish I'd have seen the owner and rowed over there. I'd love to see what the interior looks like too.
Mike
Totoro (SS23 #626)
Totoro (SS23 #626)
- Bluenose
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:19 pm
- Boat Name: Bolero
- Boat Type: Modified Shields One Design
- Location: Lopez Island, WA
- Contact:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
While I might agree that a boomkin would add some complexity to maintenance and running backstay would add some complexity to sailing. I don't think that speed and simplicity are mutually exclusive. And I don't really think it is about speed at all. I think that it is about having enough sail area to push-pull your sailboat near its hull speed for a wide range of wind conditions.LazyGuy wrote:...I enjoy the simplicity. Speed has a cost that I am seldom willing to pay...
And to think I thought Bolero was all foredeck. But having sailed on a few other boats this summer, I enjoy a clear foredeck even more.MikeD wrote:...With no forecabin trunk, it's got a working foredeck that rivals Bolero's...
Edit:
And if Rachel's numbers are right (and is she ever wrong), that means that Bolero (Shields) would only owe Spartina 3 seconds per mile (Shields LI Sound PHRF 168) around the race course.Rachel wrote:On the other hand, it looks to me like Spartina has a racing/cruising PHRF rating of 171/180; not too shabby for a boat that looks fairly small.
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I found the numbers when Googling "Spartina" out of curiosity about the design. I came up with what looked like a PHRF rating list. (The Luders 33 was on the same list a few pages back.)
Wouldn't it be fun if you and Bolero could have a boat-to-boat race with her? That would be fun to watch with your ratings being so close :)
Wouldn't it be fun if you and Bolero could have a boat-to-boat race with her? That would be fun to watch with your ratings being so close :)
Last edited by Rachel on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Bluenose
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:19 pm
- Boat Name: Bolero
- Boat Type: Modified Shields One Design
- Location: Lopez Island, WA
- Contact:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
I guess it depends on your definition of fun. Bolero is probably a bit slower since her conversion and I certainly don't add any racing value. So following this boat around the race course might be a lot of things, but fun?Rachel wrote:Wouldn't it be fun if you and Bolero could have a boat-to-boat race with her? That would be fun to watch with your ratings being so close :)
Cheers, Bill
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Okay, I see your point.
I just know how much you love sailing, so I was figuring you'd really enjoy sailing with a boat that was so close in rating to yours. And it's always fun to watch people doing what they enjoy.
But now that I think about it, I realize that you probably just like to sail, and may not care how fast other people are going (that more-or-less sums up my feelings about it, actually).
Rachel
I just know how much you love sailing, so I was figuring you'd really enjoy sailing with a boat that was so close in rating to yours. And it's always fun to watch people doing what they enjoy.
But now that I think about it, I realize that you probably just like to sail, and may not care how fast other people are going (that more-or-less sums up my feelings about it, actually).
Rachel
- Bluenose
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:19 pm
- Boat Name: Bolero
- Boat Type: Modified Shields One Design
- Location: Lopez Island, WA
- Contact:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Rachel,Rachel wrote:Okay, I see your point.
I just know how much you love sailing, so I was figuring you'd really enjoy sailing with a boat that was so close in rating to yours. And it's always fun to watch people doing what they enjoy.
But now that I think about it, I realize that you probably just like to sail, and may not care how fast other people are going (that more-or-less sums up my feelings about it, actually).
Rachel
My last post was a bit tongue and cheek. Even though I don't race, I love sailing and try to catch up or keep up with other boats under sail. I often lose well to a couple of Etchells (although we seem close) and a few weeks ago we had a lovely time trying to pace an old Rhodes Evergreen class. She even prompted me to shake out a reef so I could do everything I could to sail alongside and admire her. Her size eventually won out, but we definitely pointed higher.
We also have an International One Design up here that I am dying to see the stern of as I try to catch her.
Cheers, Bill
-
- Damned Because It's All Connected
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
- Boat Name: Triton
- Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
- Location: L.I. Sound
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Shields vs. IOD? Bring your A-game!
- Bluenose
- Candidate for Boat-Obsession Medal
- Posts: 438
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:19 pm
- Boat Name: Bolero
- Boat Type: Modified Shields One Design
- Location: Lopez Island, WA
- Contact:
Re: Another 'what is this?'
Darn. My best game is a C+. I guess I better bring my monocular so I can still see that beautiful stern for a long way away.Figment wrote:Shields vs. IOD? Bring your A-game!