Plastic Classic Forum

I had decided that the 23' Ensign was the "right" boat for me, but I have had trouble finding one that is in "good" but not "great" condition (i.e. closer to $5,000 than $15,000).

So now I'm looking at other boats that may fit my criteria (and seem to be more prevalent in Maine):
1) Heavy (comfortable in the 15 knots, 2-4ft afternoon chop in Penobscot Bay; ideally a solid fiberglass hull and full keel)
2) Easy to sail single-handed, if needed
3) Generous cockpit, spartan accomodations (as few systems as possible, to keep maintenance low)
4) Cheap to buy ($5,000-8,000)
5) Not a J-24

So far on my list of alternatives:
Cape Dory Typhoon 19' (too small to be comfortable in the Bay?)
Bristol Corinthian 19' (this seems to be basically a mini-Ensign)
Cape Dory 25' (perhaps a little larger than I need, but I really like the built in well for the outboard motor)

Does anyone have experience with these boats? What am I missing?

No option for a Sea Sprite 23 here, but they are first cousins and meet all of your criteria. We have a Cape Dory 25D (very much NOT a Cape Dory 25) and a Sea Sprite and had a Typhoon. I opted to sell the Typhoon and keep the SS23 because up in Massachusetts where she will be sailed, the extra length and weight makes for a more comfortable ride than the Ty which we sailed there. The Corinthian has the same size/weight issues of the Typhoon (but is also a very popular boat in Mass Bay/North Shore area.

Of the three boats, the SS23 has the largest cockpit (most spartan interior...) and is the sweetest sailing! There are lots of them around at reasonable prices.

Just my .02!

Bly

If the Typhoon is too small, how about the Typhoon Senior? 22.5 feet long.



Another great Alberg is the Sea Sprite 23:



Or the damn-near-perfect S&S Dolphin 24 (of course, I'm biased!):

A difference of a couple feet in that range is huge. I would not put even the Typhoon and the Ensign in the same class, never mind the CD 25. Not only do larger boats cost more (priced plus upgrades as the case may be) but the maintenance and in water storage range is large. How much is size worth to you ? Have you checked in to what a year of fees and such will be? Only you can decide if a 25 foot daysailor is good/better/whatever than a 19 footer. All the boats you list are worth owning if they are right for you.

Ha! That's Fizz, my Sea Sprite 23. My father is the one sailing it... For some reason, my picture frequently shows up first when people search for SS23s.

There are lots of Ensigns around so keep looking. Sea Sprite 23s are similar but many are old... condition may be a problem.

Be prepared to cough up lots of moolah for an Ensign or a SS23 in good condition. Six to ten grand is typical for one in good shape. Three to five grand is typical for one in rougher but decent shape.

Thing is, to get a sailboat in great shape with little work, you will wait, wait for a long time then have to instantly pay up right away when one do show up. They do show up. I once saw a SS23 with a trailer for 15 grand. It was in similar condition to Fizz. I thought it was overpriced but it sold within 2 weeks...

Bigger sailboats are easier to buy cheap now. The 22-25 footers that's in good shape go very quickly nowadays. I guess that big boat owners have decided that size range is nice and comfortable with low ownership expenses. That is why prices in that size range are relatively firm and going upwards while other sizes (larger in general) are going for less and less as of writing.

One last thing: In my 5 or so years of looking at boats for fun... I have noted with interest that the "overpriced" boats often was the best deal. The reason is that they often come with fresh engines or fresh sails which costs lots and is not that noticeable. A 10 grand SS23 with new sails, seat cushions, standing rigging, and a new outboard may be a better deal than a 5 grand SS23 with tired sails and old everything. 5 grand seems lots but you will burn thru that instantly when upgrading!

- Case

If I didn't need/want a cabin (and it sounds like you don't), then you would have a hard time prying me away from the delightful cockpit of an Ensign. I *love* how you sit IN the boat, not "on" it. That, to me, is just magical.

That non self-bailing teak cockpit is just so fabulous.

If you're going to give that up, then I might consider a Pearson Commander. This is the smaller cabin/larger cockpit version of the Ariel. Although the cockpit is self bailing, because it goes so much further forward (since the cabin is smaller), you do get some of the "in" feeling of the Ensign in the forward end. They also have a motorwell, which you say you like (I like them too).

The Commander is larger than the Ensign, but still does not need to be large/complicated. As a bonus, the cabin is more sleepable if you do decide on some mini-cruising. But it's not big enough that one would tend to start going hog wild on acommodations and complications. I have seen quite a few in Maine for sale over the past couple of years. They don't have the class racing/cachet of the Ensign to drive up the price. Also a bit more side-deck and often pulpits etc. which can be nice.

I would have said the Electra, which is the cabin version of the Ensign, but you give up that cockpit and the cabin is still small.

Another nice little boat I've seen a few of up there is the O'Day Tempest (Rhodes). It has a bit more of a fin keel, but with a sensible skeg. Also has a motor well.

I don't know though.... if I were set on an Ensign I think I would try to hold out for one. Yes, I'm hooked on that cockpit! It makes the boat, for me.

Rachel

Here's another one that I've always liked. The O'Day Outlaw by Phillip Rhodes:



Similar to the Pearson Commander in a lot of ways... the long cockpit that Rachel digs, jaunty cabin house, outboard well, springy shear. Full keel but with a more modern cutaway forefoot.

I have one of these I am trying to get rid of....

http://www.seawardyachts.com/vintage/23sea/23pics.htm

I love sailing my Corinthian. Feels like a bigger boat than it is. Easy to launch and single hand. Fast and stable.

I just quickly checked NE Sailboat Rescue (http://nesr.wordpress.com/2010/11/26/pe ... /#more-570) and he posted a Commander for sale in November.

Big Commander pic here: http://nesr.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/commander-p.jpg

But he's got scads of Alberg hulls over there, usually in a pretty sad state - and more than a couple of Ensigns too. SS23's too. If nothing else, it may be worth a trip to go and look at a few of the boats you're considering.

There were also a couple of fully restored Bristol Corinthians in Portland on Craig's list this Fall...

Case speaks the truth. You get what you pay for. There are many stories in this forum that say that buying a 'fixer-upper" is not the most cost effective option.

But my vote is for the Sea Sprite. In my mind, one of the best boats out there under 25 feet.

There is another Alberg design you should consider,the Kittiwake 23,full keel,lead ballast,outboard well,good interior space and inexpensive. Although its not as popular as those listed the Kittiwake always turns heads when cruising.
I gave $1200 for mine that was in the water sailing but needs some work. These are pictures before putting the boat on my trailer for home. I am doing a refit but hope to be sailing this summer/fall, hopefully. Disreguard the dates.
http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss13 ... 2023%20-2/

Tom

You've gotten a lot of great alternatives to look at, all of which you should pursue according to which ones push your buttons. Several are similar in concept to the Ensign, some quite different. Only you know which ones fit your ideas of what you want in this boat.

Unfortunately you are likely to find the same issues with condition vs. price no matter what specific boat model you consider. And it's plain, simple fact that larger, more complicated (even in the relative increments we're talking about here) WILL cost more to upgrade, outfit, and maintain. All well and good, as long as you're prepared for it, but don't be fooled into thinking otherwise.

Someone in your position is likely to be far better off to pay a bit more for a boat in better condition to begin with. Setting the financial goals at a realistic level based upon one's own needs, wants, capabilities, and the current state of the market for whatever boat is probably the most important aspect of boat searching. You might find it worthwhile to increase your acceptable price range a bit. Frankly, you're going to either pay up front, or pay later. You'd be better off paying up front to get a boat that's ready to go now.

You've already had time (unfortunately) to determine what sort of boat small money (and not-so-small money, in some cases) gets you. Use those lessons to shape your search and financial parameters going forward.

Note that most Alberg boats sail very similarly, so you're relatively assured of those certain sailing characteristics you were seeking in the Ensign.

As far as the 19-footers go: as mentioned above, they really are in a different class. Those few feet make a huge difference in my opinion. I have had plenty of opportunity to watch and compare Typhoons with Ensigns, and if you want a big-boat feel, the Typhoon isn't even going to come close by comparison. Typical Maine seabreeze conditions on nice summer days can get snotty in a hurry, and I think you and your family would be happier in an Ensign or one of the other 22-25-footers than by going down in size to the Typhoon or Corinthian. The smaller boats are fine, but you really shouldn't be comparing them directly with Ensigns or Sea Sprite 23s despite their apparent similarities. There are real-world differences that can't necessarily be appreciated till you experience them firsthand.

Don't give up on the Ensign, but by all means look at all the boats others have mentioned. I'd vote for the Sea Sprite 23 also because I like its looks the best of the boats mentioned above, and it's got the same spirit as the Ensign in a very similarly-sized platform. But I've never had more fun sailing then when I had my Ensign (which is why I have obtained another one for future use).

Finally: when you find the boat that seems just right for you, don't wait around. Move on it immediately. Someone else is probably thinking the same thing about it.

Thank you to everyone who responded!

This is great feedback, and I am convinced on:

1) Sticking with boats 23' or greater (but likely not greater than 25')
2) Adding the Sea Sprite (and some others) to the list
3) Upping my mental budget for the initial purchase

One of the things I have struggled with is that this is my first time buying a boat of any kind. I'm 26 and have been sailing for over 15 years. I race competitively year-round and am confident (but not too confident) on the water.

However, when it comes to the exercise of finding/inspecting/transporting/buying a boat, I am highly frustrated. I'm terrified of structural weaknesses that could cause a rigging failure while on the water (which has happened to a friend), not least because it would likely be the last time my partner would go sailing with me. Because of this, perhaps I have been too cautious/slow when dealing.

But I am convinced of Tim's final piece of advice as well. When I find the "right" boat, I will jump at the opportunity.

Thanks again to the whole community.

Rachel,

The Ensign's cockpit is what sucked me in as well. Both the size and the beautiful wood trim.

However, your points on the Commander are very well taken. The motorwell, plus self-bailing cockpit, plus the reduced maintenance from not having an all-wood interior, could well sway me.

I was fortunate to have a friend with an Ensign on a mooring the summer I spent in Maine - that's where I fell in love with the boat. I was rather un-moved by the looks (the sloping sheerline and the transom shape just didn't push my buttons), but as soon as we got out sailing.... I was hooked. I felt like one of those folks you see in sailing photos from an earlier era - you know, where they are relaxing in the cockpit on a beautiful sunny sail, up to their armpits in boat. It's just so *comfortable*.

I've always been more of a cabin person, planning/making longer trips and really enjoying the benefits: The cozy feeling of being below at anchor, the nice feeling of being on my own "self-sufficient island," the rush of sleeping on the off watch while waves sluice past the hull, etc.

But then my eyes were (re-)opened to the fun of having a daysailer in a place like Maine. You don't *have* to go out on nasty days unless you want to, and I can't think of anything better than a sunny day sailing on an Ensign. In addition to being really comfortable for sitting in while sailing, the cockpit just about begs you to nap, have a picnic, put up a boom tent and camp.....

At first I was a bit freaked out about the combination of keelboat and non-self-draining cockpit. That just didn't seem right to me! And I'm sure it is slightly more vulnerable at times. But then we weren't going offshore, and my friend (who has owned the boat since he was a teenager) told me of endless summer days where -- as invulnerable youths -- they would race her hard and way overcanvassed. That pretty much alleviated my mental visions of water pouring into the cockpit and sinking us without undue provocation. And the boom tent at anchor gives me a nice nostalgic feeling :)

What you said about worrying about structural parts giving way definitely hit home with me. Perhaps to my detriment, I'm the sort who just cannot enjoy going out sailing on my own boat if I have any doubts about chainplates, through-hulls, hoses, etc. And from what I've seen of most "plastic classics," I'm not without reason. I think it's good to listen to your inner worries; they may be true, and even if they aren't..... it's more enjoyable to have a boat where you don't have those nagging doubts, even if they proved unfounded (when you checked the components). I mean vs. just trying to ignore them (never seems to work).

Part of me wants to say that I really can't imagine any plastic classic where I would not want to check over and/or re-do the basics. That's not to say that you should just give in and buy a basket case, but -- unless you are lucky enough to find a boat where someone has re-worked it properly -- you may just want to figure you will remove/inspect/replace chainplates, knees, and rigging; through-hulls, hoses, and clamps; and any through-deck-core items (or take your boat to someone trustworthy to have it done.... luckily you are in Maine).

I have seen a few Plastic Classics that really were re-done, and re-done right, but the vast majority were either "as-is" (meaning to my mind they need those basic systems checked or re-worked at this age), or they had been "fixed up" but I was not happy with the methods or quality -- and thus would have been paying more for work I wanted to tear out anyway.

Oh boy, I think I'm rambling. Better summarize! I think if it were me (with your stated parameters), I would continue the hunt for an Ensign. You may pay a bit more because of the racing class value (especially in Maine), but on the other hand, the joy of the boat will probably last a lot longer than the thoughts of paying a bit more (within reason).

I think that I would look for the best boat I could find, as Case mentioned, even if it costs a bit more (nice paint/gelcoat, good sails, teak in good shape, etc.), but keep the thought in mind that you may want to inspect or re-work the aforementioned critical systems (rig, holes in hull, holes in deck) for peace of mind in any case. And know that they aren't that expensive or complicated on a smaller boat such as the Ensign, as long as the whole boat is not a project.

Can't wait to see what you find!

Rachel

A little bilge water, please, and presumably in my face.

I'd want a Soling, or one of its sister racing keelboats designed to knock the Star out of the Olympics; Etchells is one, can't remember the other. Maybe even a Star, 110, or 210.

There's a lovely CD Typhoon on the next mooring from us. Sailed often by an older couple, usually for several hours at a time and out into the Chesapeake. I'd consider it too small for me; it has a hanked on jib and the skipper has to go forward to rig it. Getting there is not convenient, even for him.

I hasten to add that you could do no better than Tim's cut down Triton (was it?). Gorgeous boat.

A Soling!?!? Yes, it's a beautiful boat, and fast, and the right size... but geez... that would be a WET ride on a nice afternoon in Maine. And a wet ride in Maine means a cold, uncomfortable ride, with angry crew-mates.

Maybe on the Long Island Sound, but I need some coamings at least! And I wouldn't think of modifying a classic like that... too high a risk of angry looks by the one-design purists.

Also, I agree on Tim's Triton... that is pretty much the ultimate day-sailor. One day...

charlesadan wrote:... a wet ride in Maine means a cold, uncomfortable ride, with angry crew-mates..

And by "cold, uncomfortable ride" you surely mean the trip home in the car in addition to whatever happened on the boat, right? ;<)

Tim wrote:And by "cold, uncomfortable ride" you surely mean the trip home in the car in addition to whatever happened on the boat, right? ;<)

Indeed... it's hard enough dealing with people who get upset when the boat heels more than 5 degrees ("Are you SURE the boat can't tip over?!?") without giving them an actual reason to be upset!

I agree with Tim, if you are looking at designs you like, you should buy one thats ready for your enjoyment. My Kittiwake as mentioned needs some work, work that I chose to do. I had been waiting and looking for a boat that, doing my "vintage" years, I could single hand. I was looking for a CD 22 or other unique boat that needed a refit, as I am retired and have the time. The Kittiwake 23 came up and it fit my needs. I am enjoying the refit, although at a very slow pace,which also fits my, or should I say refits my own "vintage" years. ha,ha
I have a larger boat that my family has enjoyed since I bought her in 1990. Tom

Don't let age or lack of use put you off however. Our SS23 needed some very minor cosmetic work (some broken teak in the cockpit) and a little work on the stern deck. Original gelcoat was just fine. She was however (apparently) pretty nasty looking before we got her. The guy we bought her from had found her under trees in the mountains of North Carolina on a trailer where she had sat for 11 years untouched and uncovered. He brought her to the Outer Banks (quite a poke!) and gave her a very, very good bath and bought the missing shroud, rigged her and shazaam.



Here's how she looked when we went to look (with cash and truck to tow trailer in hand) at her. Yup, I cried. Love at first sight. Hubby was pretty glad since it was an 11 hour drive!

She did come "unfurnished" -- ie. nothing other than the cabin cushions and sails. Everything from the porta-potty on down had to be purchased new. Our CD25D, on the other hand, even included the previous owner's shoes! Outfitting a boat with the basics for safety, etc. can add to the cost. Our price with trailer was $3,300 plus $375 for the outboard purchased later. The trailer was critical as she was almost at the end of the world!

I will say that if we hadn't driven out with her on Sunday morning, the next guy was on his way down from Baltimore to pick her up. We did buy with no survey. I talked to a surveyor who had seen her at the boatyard she was in (the PO tried to get him to buy her) and he said just buy the boat. We did check the deck for major core issues and did check the bottom for evidence of blisters, etc. No regrets -- and we still give (appreciated) reports to the PO!

You will not regret buying a solid SS23. Ariel is a Wickford built hull. Some of the older Sailstar models have seen a lot more years and may be more of an issue. Ryder built them into their final years. I prefer the Wickfords with the less dominant motor well.

All the best in your search!

Bly

Can I add another boat to the list? One that happens to be for sale as well? I just noticed that the ad I had placed on the classifieds page here has expired....need to re-post it.

Anyway...Cape Cod Marlin, daysailor version: 23' LOD, 3300 lb., full keel, built like a tank by Cape Cod Shipbuilding. Mine is in very good shape, not perfect, but what boat is, really? She's in plenty good shape to stand up to being sailed 50 days a summer for the past four years. The entire rig is essentially new. She needs cosmetics, but nothing serious. I'll repost on the classifieds page but feel free to PM me....boat is in Jamestown RI.

Totally worthy contender!

Brodie, ever since you listed your boat for sale I have had several stern talks with myself about "do you *really* need a boat with a cabin?" I think I do, but otherwise....

What is the cockpit like in Starry Night? I think I have seen one in photos but I've forgotten the details (and maybe that was the more "cabiny" version).

Rachel

Here's a pic that gives some idea of the size of the cockpit....it's huge, and very deep (note where the coamings hit everyone's backs). It's honestly the best cockpit of any boat I've been in - I will miss that feature of the boat the most, as the new boat's cockpit is nice but nothing like this one. The only disadvantage is that the cockpit sole is below the waterline so consequently is not self bailing, but Starry Night has a bilge pump and a little solar panel to charge the battery, which has worked great in the 4 years I've had the boat.

Beautiful boat - I will read up on the class and PM you with some questions

Thanks

I prefer Sonars to Ensigns, but perhaps they are disqualified from your search by their fin keels.

Bob,

I probably should give the Sonar a fair shake, but you're right that I didn't really consider it because of the fin keel.

I've never been on a Sonar; I know they are very popular on the Long Island Sound, which is why I assumed (perhaps unfairly) that they were known more for being good light-wind boats.

They look like a lot of fun to race, but perhaps not the best day-sailor. Though, one could probably make the same argument about the Ensign!

I know of one Sonar in Maine - a friend (Eric) keeps it on his very small island in Pleasant Point Gut (literally on it, he built a little railway to haul it on) and sails from there. I don't think he sails far, but he certainly enjoys it.

Regardless of that, and of the fact that I sold a full-keeled boat and boat a fin keeler, I would pick a Sea Sprite or the Marlin or some other large cockpitted, full keel with attached rudder design. Maine with it's lobster pots just isn't a place to sail with any appendage that can catch a line - and those boats are beautiful, to boot.

If you are near Rhode Island, there is an Ensign on fleabay that looks promising. (won't post a link, but you can find it easily enough.

I wish I had specifics, but there is an ENSIGN in Wareham, MA that "might" be for sale, I remember talking ot her owner a few years ago while he was working on her. He mentioned at the time that he was maybe thinking about selling her........ not sure if he is still thinking those thoughts.

This ENSIGN seems to be in fine structural shape, just cosmetically "scruffy". The sails are fairly new, including a roller-furling jib. The cockpit cover is only a few years old too.

Again, not sure if the boat would be for sale, but I'll keep my eyes & ears open for any indication and post it here if I do find out she is for sale.

There is also an old Cape Cod Shipbuilding MARLIN daysailor for sale at Cape Cod Shipbuilding, "TANGLE" is cutter-rigged and has an outboard well. She used to be on the mooring next to our old CAL 21, and had loving owners who sold her about 3-4 years ago, she is now back on the market. This boat is not (last I saw her?) in superb cosmetic condition, but structurely should be as good as ever! Check out CCSB's web site for details. Price might be more than you are looking for, ($8,000 ?) but she is a real nice looking boat.

I personally LOVE the CCSB Marlin, which is a lovely Herreshof design. I contemplated offering my Soverel 28 to Brodie as a trade, since these two boats both have giant cockpits but the Soverel has just a bit more accommodations (though spartan!).

However THE INCIDENT has been collecting fans this past season and I now have enough folks interested so that I may need the bigger boat.

I definitely DO recommend the Soverel for its sailing qualities and strong construction. My boat turns a lot of heads and has developed a big fan base.

BUT she is somewhat larger than the Ensign. Would make an excellent Maine boat though--lots of freeboard and LOVES heavy weather.

Here are some pix;

Well, I voted Ensign because it was my quest boat before I had ever been on a sail boat. I have no rational explanation for that.

But to address the other isse in the OP. Frustration in the looking for phase. I looked for a long time (by my standards) and only actually looked at one. I bought mine from pictures at almost double the budget (obviously I don't adhere to budgets too well). The one I looked at I drove about 2100 miles RT to see a boat in such decrepit condition I walked away, frustrated but with more character. The other I bought from the fellow in Maine mentioned above and was very happy with the deal.

Buy a boat and go sailing.

Dave.

Richincident wrote: However THE INCIDENT has been collecting fans this past season...

Well, now you can add one more fan, what a nice-looking (and unique) boat.
She's got that little extra bit of sheer forward that adds some spirit and character.

Hey Duncan THANKS!

I love people who love my boat! She was hidden under some very ugly tarps, and very dirty when I first saw her, but it was definitely love at first sight--and that sheer line was a big part of it. Also the VERY practical non-skid, the STURDY construction, and as much research as I could do on Soverel 28's and their builder.

It has been a real pleasure to sail her and I have a powerful feeling of trust for what she will do in all conditions. Right now she is in storage south of here to have her diesel cleaned up. I am hoping to put a new genny on her as well, but she is in a great spot for an early launch. LOVE the Cape Dory's, quite a few of which are moored near me in Hingham Harbor.

Hi, new member here. I have Ensign #1772 and love it (as well as a Tartan 27), It was the second to last Ensign made by Pearson. I can't say enough about it. It was my second Ensign.......#765 was my first and sold due to the repairs needed on the deck......and figured it would have been cheaper to sell and put the $$ into one that was "cleaner"...... I ended buying #1772 from the original family...never raced...in Bristol condition $7900, the brightwork was in great condition, the Pearson emblem was still on the mast....... i was very lucky in finding such a good example for the price.

Many of the less expensive Ensigns may need some work, the brightwork is normally bad....don't base the boat on this, most important is the deck and bulkhead......make sure no soft spots......All and all, you can spent a kings ransom fixing up boats.....(i have learned this in restoring a car)......

A great place to look is on the Official Ensign Site

http://www.ensignclass.com/

It's funny, they have link for boats for sale but you have to be a member to see it (i think it's $25).... don't ask me why, many price ranges....2500 and up.......

Another Fourm is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EnsignSailors/

I love my Ensign, and wish my Tartan 27 sailed as well.......

Todd
FlyingCloud #1772
Rosie #616 (Tartan)

Welcome to the forum, todd!

You've clearly got great taste in boats - if you feel like posting any photos I know I'd love to see them, and I'm pretty sure everyone else would too.

I had never felt any "pull" toward the Ensign until I had the chance to sail one. Wow! They won my heart :)

And I've always really liked the Tartan 27. Actually, I've always figured they would sail better than the average (plastic classic) bear, due to their longer LWL, decent amount of sail area, and relatively less wetted area --- but I haven't ever sailed on one. That said, the Ensign is kind of in another class, isn't it :)

Rachel

Thanks.....I fell in love with the Ensign the first time went to see one for sale #765 (purchased in 1996)..... i never had seen one before......the first look did it....

I will have to look for some photos of my newer Ensign #1772 that i purchased in 2007 and post them......:)

The Tartan 27 was a different story.......I loved the way the Ensign sailed thru the waves, not to much weatherhelm......a dream to sail (no wonder why it's included in with the Hall of Fame's best sailboats).........so a friend wanted to go in and purchase a larger boat, he let me pick it......Our club in Minnesota has a limit of no larger than 27', so i looked and looked, i wanted the same look as the Ensign, classic, full keel, larger cockpit, woodwork.....etc. and at a sailboat broker i saw the Tartan 27, loved it.....it was sold......Bummer....so i searched all over for one and finally found one in New London, Ct.
We have had it now for 7 years now and love it too.....it's like having two kids, they are very different, and one loves them in different ways.....The Tartan is not as nimble, can have a heavy tiller, and in racing (a requirement in our club) "Rosie" likes to take her time coming around the wind.....But cruising on a reach she is great.

Todd

There is an Alberg designed Bristol 27 called the B-27 Weekender which has a larger cockpit and smaller cabin. It's a very close cousin to the Pearson Triton built in the same town and no doubt by some of the same workers!

Hi all,

Just a quick update: While I wasn't able to find an Ensign in time for this season, I was able to find a small charter outfit in Sag Harbor with a small fleet of Ensigns.

Long story short, my first experience sailing the boat was exactly how I had imagined. I was out with myself and two non-sailors (new sailors?), and I had no problem single-handing, and was even able to hand off the tiller to my friends for a quick lesson.

The particular boat I was on had been retrofitted with fiberglass flooring and seats from Ensign Spars, but even without the half-acre of varnish I was hooked enough to continue my search for an Ensign.

Thanks again for all the help

Rainbow?

I know of three for sale at $500 each. They each need some work, but from what I've been told, they're fantastic sailers. One of the three is at the boatyard where my boat currently is, and every time I drive in, I have to drive right past it. I've gone up and looked at it more than once and am sorely tempted, but I really need to focus my time, energy and $$ on my boat for now.

But it sure looks like it would be a sweet little boat.

In good, ready to sail condition, they seem to go for $2,000 - $3,000 - and that sometimes even includes a trailer.

I'm still tempted by the $500 one at the boatyard, even though it needs a fair amount of cleaning up and repair. Seems a cheap way to get into one - it's solid and sound overall, but needs some elbow grease before being ready to sail away.

Here you go:

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/2435669018.html

I can't see that [Bristol 26 that you linked to] really filling the niche that a Pearson Ensign fills as a daysailer though, even though it could be a good boat.

I agree with Rachel. The Rainbows are a great teaching boat, and they make for some good one of a kind racing. They ARE close to indestructible, so that is a good thing.

On the other hand many of them WERE instruction boats, and they are plenty beat up. Once you get it looking its best, it will still be a Rainbow, and not the fastest or best sailing boat. I would hold out--there are lots of great classics looking for a home.

Richard

Rachel wrote:I can't see that really filling the niche that a Pearson Ensign fills as a daysailer though, even though it could be a good boat.

just want to throw in a word on the sea sprite 23's. of important note is that there are two models, the weekender and the day sailor. I like the day sailor better, it's got a bigger cockpit for that sit-down-in feel that rachel so likes. I race on one in bristol, RI. where there is an insanely competitive fleet of about 15, and although we are not always sitting down in, the boat sails beautifully. on Sunday I was out in my triton, while my friend was out in his sea sprite. he trimmed his sails in about 12 knots of breeze, then proceeded to walk up and stand at the rigging and keep sailing along. nothing keeping the tiller straight but alberg's mastery of balance...

I'd take issue that the Sparkman and Stephens designed Rainbow isn't a plastic classic.

They sail sweetly, have huge cockpits, tough as nails, near zero maintenance.

They got almost no maintenance at the annapolis sailing school, I routinely saw them run aground (cast iron unfiberglassed keels) run up on floating docks to the waterline, etc and they all bounced back.

They aren't the most attractive boat, but they are better than 99% of modern tubs. The knockabout version is very interesting. The cockpit extends to a semicircle ahead of the mast. No cuddy. Sort of like a giant hut tub...empty of course.

I'd look for the nicest complete one you could find for the money as any money you put in one likely won't be recovered. They aren't worth much, but they are a nice little boat.

Ric, you're not helping me resist the one that's at the Deltaville Boatyard's "Field of Dreams."

It's been there for a while now and just this past weekend, I saw that they now had set up the mast and standing rigging. I guess they're trying to show it off better.

It needs a fair amount of work, but certainly seems quite sound. I think it's actually a very nice-looking little boat and looks like it would be fun to sail and bang around in.

Being that they're asking only $500 and it's for the Deltaville Maritime Museum, I'm having a hard time resisting. Except that my wife likely would cut off my ... wallet ... if I bought it.

I understand you would like the big cockpit of an Ensign but don't discount the Electra. Same hull, a whole heck of a lot less varnishing than an Ensign, I see Electras all over the country for sale for $500. Some up to $6500 totally restored with trailers. Great classic looks of an Alberg. I bought one on EBAY for $20.00 (twenty). Came with NavMan electronics , bilge pumps manual and Electric, covers for all the brightwork, Garelick motor mount, new cushions, solid recored decks, etc. The mast and rudder were gone and it had some holes in the hull where it hit the rocks( easy fix). Then I bought another Electra with the keel cut off for $500 and got everything I needed to finish the boat including sails. You can also sleep with 3 of your VERY VERY closest friends!! LOL.

Cape Cod marlin for sale.....

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