the Band Saw

[Figment]

(just read Tim's 11/9 writeup of his new mast beam for Glissando)

Tim, I can't believe that YOU of all people do not have a bandsaw. Put one on your christmas list, watch the local classified ads, do what you gotta do, etc.... but get one. (or don't. you get my point.)

I think that the bandsaw is a highly versatile and vastly underrated tool. Personally, I blame Norm Abrams. He's hawked every tool in god's creation (I remember a New Yankee Workshop episode where he filled three wheelbarrows with all of his routers), but rarely has he shown the bandsaw used to its ability.

I'm not saying that it's absolute necessity. I didn't have the bandsaw when I built the canoe. However, I recently did a bit of tidying-up in the shop, and I was struck by the fact that the heap of scraps behind the bandsaw was a LOT bigger than the heap behind the table saw. I just haven't used the tablesaw much since I got the bandsaw. It's just a far more pleasant machine to use. It's FAR quieter, has easier dust control, cuts a narrower kerf (nice when resawing precious salvaged mahogany) and has its own light source at the blade (critical in my poorly lit shop).

oh, for the record, my machine is a Craftsman 12" that I estimate to be of late '70's vintage. Ask anyone who knows tools to reccommend a good saw, and this machine will NOT be on their list, but it was free, and after an afternoon spent oiling and tuning has served me very well. I'm not a serious "tool collector". My shop inventory of power tools can be counted on one hand.... bandsaw, tablesaw, palm sander, drill, and (recently) router.

I can't imagine myself doing any serious boatwork without it. Twice during last spring's bulkhead replacement project, I carted the bandsaw down to the boatyard for the day. That was not a small inconvenience, but proved to be well worthwhile on both occasions.

Straight cuts, curves, angles..... I'm at the point where I only turn to the tablesaw when I can't figure a way to make the cut within the 12" throat limitation of the bandsaw. I can't say enough to express my affection for this machine.

[Tim]

I unquestionably need a band saw. The reason I don't have one comes down to a couple factors: first, I always forget I need one till I need one. And second, I'm sick of buying cheap junk and am at a point in my hobby/life pursuit where I'm increasingly unwilling to buy a cheap tool that will not do the job down the road. I've had too much experience with wobbly blades and inconsistent adjustment that I don't want to put up with the inevitable hassles that would arrive along with one of the cut-rate bandsaws commonly available. The good ones get pricey--fast. And of course I want one that is powerful enough to work as a real resaw for narrowing thicker pieces of stock. It's a tool I want to only buy once, and be happy with ever after.

(Have I mentioned that I despise tool adjusting and fussy controls? Few things frustrate me more than some poorly-designed and poorly-executed tool adjustment method. I want to set it and forget it. Even with good tools, things need adjustment--but you can never get it right with a cheapo.)

Not being much of a scavenger/browser/errand-running/yard sale type, I know I'm missing out on some good used, older tools that would do what I need for the right price. Eventually in these situations, I reach a point where the time is NOW, and I find and/or purchase what is needed. I think this time is fast approaching, particularly as I face the significant woodworking that will be involved in constructing the Daysailor deck and interior structures.

We'll see what the winter brings. Lots of snow (and plowing income) translates to new tools and rapid Daysailor construction progress. A collective crossing of fingers may work wonders, folks!

[Dave, 397]

I love the band saw! Of course, it is a mainstay of instrument making, so I had to get friendly with it a lot. I've owned four different saws, and while I understand the spendy issue is a big one, I have to throw my 2 cents in.

My dream saw was the Laguna LT16HD. Killer saw, very very accurate, sturdily made in Europe and capable of doing what most 20" saws can do.
Spendy, and worth it. Never did get one.

I have owned two Taiwan saws, a 16" and an 18". EVERY Taiwan saw I have had to work with has been fiddly to some degree or another and most have been just plain crap and a waste of money. While indeed they will do a lot of the job, the real thing makes quite a contrast.

The saw we finally got in my old business was a 1940's 20" Delta. Wonderful saw, with caveats. First, I got it because I needed good resaw capacity...and it had plenty of cutting height. Second, I got it because it was dirt cheap and in a basket...and I had ability and access to facility to rebuild it fairly easily. Last, I had a motor lurking around to run it with. Loved that saw, and the guy who bought it loves it too.

The problem with most saws over 16" is that in order to run and track narrower blades one ends up needing two different sets of guides and in most cases guide carriers as well...which you may well have to make/have made.

The venerable 14" Delta is a good saw, and there are some killer deals to be had on 12" saws like Fig mentions. I really prefer a 16" saw for the extra throat depth, though--well worth the cash, in my book. Also, the bigger the saw, the more pigiron (usually--I had a 16" Grizzly that flexed so bad in the frame as to be nearly worthless in terms of accuracy. My 18" Grizzly had aluminum wheels and after a couple years of running enough blade tension to resaw they warped out of shape so bad we had to spend 1/2 hour just to get the tracking set whenever we changed blades. Beware.) in the frame. Also--and this is a big one--the longer the blade and hence the longer the blade life. The difference in lifespan just in 10" of extra blade length is really amazing.

If you hop on Ebay, there are lots of really nice pieces of stationary equipment going for incredibly good prices. I've seen some unbelievable good deals on bandsaws in particular. The aero industry is so bad off, there are lots of plant auctions going on...guys go and buy everything from the airtools to CNC mills and resell the things. Trouble is, most of these things are in California, so you have truckage to deal with...still, some things work out to be awesome deals. Be prepared for a lot of industrial tool names you've never heard of, but worry not...any of them will kick butt on a Delta woodshop machine! Automatically assume you'll need to do bearings, tires and guides.

While I wait for a good deal to fall in my cash-strapped lap, I still have a little 10" no-name, no-guard thing from the 1930's. Washing machine motor. Cute, makes some jobs better, and can be tack-driver accurate for small things. Limited uses, though...but better than nothing.

Best,
Dave

[Figment]

The venerable 14" Delta is a good saw, and there are some killer deals to be had on 12" saws like Fig mentions. I really prefer a 16" saw for the extra throat depth, though--

I must say that if I were to spend money on a saw, I would go at LEAST 14" if not 16". Like I said.... the 12" saw was free, but I can't tell you how many times that extra two inches of throat would've been appreciated. Of course, this may be one of those things that no matter how big you go, you always need that extra inch or two.....

I also must say that if I were to spend money on a saw, it certainly would NOT be on a brand new saw. All I hear and all I read tells me that the new stuff is junk compared to the machines made thirty or forty years ago. But that's me. If I go out and buy a tool for a specific job/project, that means (to a certain degree) that I'm buying it on a deadline, and I ALWAYS feel like I get robbed when I buy things on a deadline. My table saw is an excellent example of that. I bought it for building the strongback for the canoe, and I only shopped around for a week or so. It was the best deal presented to me at the time, but looking back, it really isn't worth what I paid. I know I could've gotten more tool for the money if I'd just kept my eye open to the classifieds for a couple of months.

-Mike "retail is for suckers" Haas

[Dave, 397]

FWIW, I had an 18" and a 20" saw, right? OK...very very rarely were there situations where I really used all of it. If the 16" saw I had would've been of quality and had a decent amount of available cutting height, I'd have been very happy with it. The big 20" Delta was a monster and a PITA when it was time to set up with a 1/8" blade for scroll work.

Point of my ramble here would be that I really think 16" is plenty for most things where the 14 is often just a bit too small. That Laguna LT16HD would fit the bill just right, even though it is new...I am generally one to be fond of old equipment myself.

Dave

[Tim]

Grizzly

OK: does anyone have an opinion on Grizzly tools? I got a flyer that shows a discontinued 18" professional bandsaw for "only" $745. (Model G4186Z) Compared to the much, much higher pricetags on similar saws by Delta, Laguna, etc., this is a heck of a price.

I'm not saying I'm gonna buy it--I really can't right now, but I was wondering what the general thought is on Grizzly for my kind of use (that is, occasional need, but hardly full-time and industrial-duty usage).

[Dave, 397]

Awful Awful Awful.
Refer back to my earlier bandsaw remarks...in general, it's Taiwan's worst in a slightly zoomier-looking package. My other general remark is that IME pertaining to Grizz in general the motors last until about a month after the warranty, the castings stay flat for about same. Even though new Delta stuff is not what it was in the 50's, If I had to choose between the saw you mention and a new 14" delta for same or less $$$, I'd take the Delta even with the limitations of the smaller saw.

Just my thoughts...but I put together a whole shop out of Grizzly originally because it was easily available and barely within the realm of affordability...and ended up replacing it all by necessity, with used professional gear that cost less than I'd paid for the Grizz.

Grandma always said "The poor pay the most for everything.", and in the case of my sationary equipment she was right. About the time I paid off the credit cards from buying all the Grizzly stuff, I started buying all the gear again.


The Grizzly is not a pimple on a Laguna saw...I've run both.

Dave

[Bill S]

Can't speak from personal experience regarding Grizzly tools, but I recomment www.woodmagazine.com for their tool forum. Go to "Wood Talk" and then "Tools and Tool Buying". You will find ample reviews and opinions on all tool subjects. The opinion of Grizzly tools has been pretty favorable lately.

Bill

[dasein668]

Rumor has it that Grizzly tools are now assembled in the US with Taiwanese parts. Can't speak to the veracity of that statement though. I do know that a friend who runs a cabinet-making shop has several Grizzly tools and is pretty happy with them?good value for the price, according to him. He doesn't have any Grizzly saws, but does have a number of other tools including a large planer and 36 inch drum sander.