Silvertip products - EZ Fillet

[A30_John]

I'm going to try SilverTip products on my next project and I'm wondering if anyone on the board has used them. I'd appreciate hearing any reports about ease of use, cost effectiveness, etc. I'm also interested in hearing how well EZ Fillet works.

Thanks.

[Tim]

I have used quite a bit of the SilverTip QuikFair surfacing putty, and found it generally pleasing to work with. It's not thick enough to satisfy every epoxy putty need you might come up with, but it is smooth and creamy and good for use as a general surfacing product. It's not thick enough to use as a filleting material in most cases, particularly on vertical surfaces as it tends to sag unless the application is thin.

It took me several batches before I came up with a decent system for measuring and mixing the material. Since both components are thixotropic, one must use a measuring cup, and it can be difficult and/or messy to properly measure into these cups, and then empty them onto a mixing board. I found some cheap plastic measuring cups and used those with success, relying on a tongue depressor to clean out the material from inside each cup.

I found System Three's claims of curing fast enough to allow three applications in an 8-hour shift to be a bit optimistic, probably because it was never near 77? when I applied the product. At 60-65?, it was still an overnight cure proposition, I found. It seems that System Three has changed the colors of the material, too. When I used it, the base component was deep purple/red, and the hardener component was pure white, resulting in a very purple color. Now, it seems they use brown and white, for a tan final result.



It is nice to avoid the use of powders sometimes. But I'm not convinced that a person involved in many aspects of boat repair and building could get by without the versatility afforded by raw resin and a variety of dry fillers. Still, for specific jobs, the pre-mixed materials are pretty nice.

I see also that they now offer some of these in ordinary caulking tubes. That could be a godsend for making fillets, for example, or other tight work. Of course, the EZ Fillet product is NOT available in a caulking tube. Go figure. EZ fillet also contains wood flour and is specifically for use in wood composite construction.

As with all products that are highly processed to save the user time, the purchase cost is higher. Sometimes the time savings are worth it; other times not.

If you use any of these products, please report back with your impressions!

[A30_John]

Thanks for the input Tim.

My local marine store is apparently not going to carry MAS any longer, so I thought I'd try SilverTip resin and QuckFair, and use EZ Fillet on my next wood composite project. A whole new system. The thing I'm a little uncertain about is just the one choice of resin. SilverTip resin is formulated for good wet out in laminations, and, according to System Three, can still be used for mixing with fillers, etc. but I'm wondering if it's an optimum resin for mixing putties. One thing I liked about MAS was the ability to switch resin types depending on the task at hand.

I will report back on my experience with SilverTip.

[rshowarth]

Any idea why your local store is not going to sell MAS epoxy? I was using West and thought I would try MAS, but if there is a reason not to I would like to know.

[A30_John]

I don't know why they stopped stocking MAS here locally. I have had great results with it and see no reason why you wouldn't want to use it.

I decided to try SilverTip for two reasons: 1) I like to be able to quickly pop down to my local marine store and pick up supplies when I run out, and 2) If possible I'd like to reduce some of the mixing required when making filleting and fairing putties. I'll be starting another plywood composite dinghy this summer and it would be nice to reduce the time spent on mixing epoxy and adding fillers etc, increase pot life of the mix, etc.

If it all works out for me, great. If not, I'll find a supplier of MAS somewhere else, ship it in in larger quantities, and go back to the "chemistry set" approach.

[A30_John]

EZ fillet also contains wood flour and is specifically for use in wood composite construction.

Tim, what are your thoughts on using wood flour for filleting on a non-wood composite boat? Apart from the brown appearance (which often gets painted over anyway) is there any reason you wouldn't use it for say tabbing a bulkhead in place in a fiberglass boat or similar uses?

[Tim]

I've never really liked the consistency of a putty made with wood flour. I've mixed up my own batches of wood flour epoxy on occasion when I want to color the mixture to roughly match natural wood in a glue seam or something. But it's always tougher to get a smooth finish when there's wood in the epoxy. I should add, however, that my wood flour is shop-generated, and not the highly processed (and smoother) stuff that you can buy. That could make a difference.

I don't know if there's any real reason not to use something like the EZ Fillet, which contains wood flour, for normal filleting on a fiberglass boat. Whether or not it's viable would in large part depend upon the consistency and workability of that specific product.

I really think the wood flour mix is more for the color when it might be left exposed, rather than for any other purpose. It makes using epoxy along with clear (bright) finishes on modern types of wooden boat construction (stitch and glue, strip plank, cold-molded, etc.) viable, since the fillets will tend to disappear or blend better with the wood-colored fillet material. Certainly you wouldn't want to leave a purple epoxy fillet exposed in that case.

I still wonder why System Three declined to put the EX Fillet material into one of their new caulking tube dispensers. Fillets just seem like the perfect place to use a caulking tube. Maybe the material is too stiff to flow properly.

[Tim]

The thing I'm a little uncertain about is just the one choice of resin. SilverTip resin is formulated for good wet out in laminations, and, according to System Three, can still be used for mixing with fillers, etc. but I'm wondering if it's an optimum resin for mixing putties.

Yes, you can still use the "thinner" laminating resin for putties. It may just require a bit more cabosil to firm up the mix. I wouldn't hesitate to use it as a general all-purpose resin, assuming that you like it in the first place. I've not tried the SilverTip resin, so I cannot comment.

"Thinner" is a relative term anyway. Regular System Three resin (not SilverTip) is the thickest epoxy that I have used. MAS is a thinner epoxy, and I suspect that the SilverTip laminating resin is similar in viscosity to that. West System is a tiny bit thicker than the MAS, and still far thinner than regular System Three.

[A30_John]

But it's always tougher to get a smooth finish when there's wood in the epoxy. I should add, however, that my wood flour is shop-generated, and not the highly processed (and smoother) stuff that you can buy. That could make a difference.

I've always used the highly processed stuff and not had problems with getting a smooth finish. To smooth things off nicely I wait until the epoxy starts to harden, then dip a (gloved) finger in acetone, and run it down the fillet. I haven't tried shop-generated wood flour as I understand it's not recommended, possibly for the reasons you stated.

I standardized on wood flour as a filler a while back because it's cheaper when doing large fillets, and less messy than other fillers. I occasionally use a Cabosil/wood flour mix: I used it when tabbing in a bulkhead into a previous fiberglass sailboat and was pleased with the result.