IS YOUR BOAT A DEATH TRAP?

[Allen]

The following post is from the Cruising Connections forum. I was concerned about this because I used quite a bit of foam to bed my water tanks under the v-berth. What do you think about this? Do I need to remove the tanks, scrape this stuff out and find another way to bed the tanks?

IS YOUR BOAT A DEATH TRAP?
Posted here on behalf of Meme Grant.

Does your boat have any foam insulation? Has your boat got a decorative foam backed vinyl stuck on the deckheads and bulkheads, 2 part foam, or sprayed foam?

The moment this foam starts to powder you are in danger of killing yourself or your crew.

The foam in question is a polyurethane foam, it is the only foam that powders. It is broken down into a fine powder through heat and moisture, just what boats in the tropics encounter. It is only a matter of time before this happens.

This powder is highly toxic as are urethane paints

The chemicals used to make urethane products are:
? Toluene-2,4-Diisocyanate
? Toluene-2,6-Diisocyanate
? Methyl Isocyanate (responsible for the Bohpal disaster, used for pesticides)
? Hexamethylene Diisocyanate
? 3-Chloro-4-Methyl Phenyl Isocyanate
? Isophorone Diisocyanate
? Methylene Bisphenyl Isocyanate

How do I know that this is toxic?

I was unaware of the toxicity of this foam and when I was delivering a Prout Snowgoose 37 from the Canaries to Cape Town the foam backed vinyl that was stuck all over the deckheads and bulkheads started to powder and fall down. It was cosmetic not structural so I did not think it serious.

I ended up with severe edema of the complete respiratory tract and was unable to breath properly for 3 weeks, the 3 crew all had different symptoms and all were affected. Not bad, 100% hit rate.

The boat was eventually abandoned and we were rescued by a Spanish longliner, a Korean car carrier and the Brazilians, all of whom were fantastic, and to whom we owe our lives. The boat was lost. I ended up in hospital for 10 days on cortisones, antihistamines, and having my lungs washed out. The medical staff at the hospital were super I could not have asked for better treatment.

We all still suffer from side effects and pollution makes our lives miserable as the problems come back.

Loraine Cooks had the same problem on her steel boat with the hard version of the foam and got severe dermatitis which, continued for 3 months, and with other symptoms after leaving the boat. She still suffers outbreaks - even synthetic clothing materials cause a breakout. The sad thing is that I warned her husband and not only did he not remove the substance from their boat but he did not tell her. She nearly died as a result. If I had not had to go into Richards Bay on a trip she would have.

Put your hand over your mouth and block your nose so you can only just breath, then put yourself in the middle of the ocean for 3 weeks or get a severe skin rash all over yourself for 3 months, its fun try it.

Severe sinusitis, flu type symptoms, itchy eyes and eye damage, sinus, coughs, asthma, reduced respiratory capacity, headache, nausea (mistaken for seasickness), vomiting and irritability, pulmonary edema, phlegm, fatigue, allergic reactions, kidney and liver damage loss of memory and concentration, cancer, miscarriages, birth defects and death are all caused by these toxins. The effects can be both acute and chronic and once sensitized you will have problems for the rest of your life and be in danger of death if exposed again.

Why have the Maritime Safety authorities not done anything?

I notified SAMSA on my return and only got sarcasm and derision in return, they did not even bother to follow up. SAMSA Richards Bay has been trying to do something but unsuccessfully.

The MCA want proof but will not bother to get it themselves in spite of their Merchant Shipping Notice No M.782 superseding notice M.592. dated November 1976. Paragraph 6 (a) states ? If these materials are to be used as the insulant they should be covered with a suitable incombustible protective facing. Such storerooms should be sited as remotely as possible from sleeping accommodation, and places of high fire risk. Details of the construction and location of the storerooms will require to be submitted for the approval of the Department?s surveyors.?

Yet they still allow yacht builders to put this substance all over yachts, in galleys and in sleeping accommodation, in fact the Snowgoose was covered in it. The boat we were on was built in 1990 in England, 14 years after the notice.

You do not believe me?

Try typing polyurethane isocyanates or polyurethane foam into http://www.google.com and enjoy the read or go to
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/isocyanates or just click on ?health hazards? on the pages
http://www.asosh.org/programmes/sordsa/isocyanates.html
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/asthma.html
http://www.hsl.gov.uk/capabilities/mvmsocy.htm
These are Government health and safety organizations in UK. USA. South Africa and Australia. Or, discuss it with the chemistry department at your local university, as I did.

There is something seriously wrong when those responsible for safety at sea will not listen to their own countries health and safety organizations or marine notices. I know that ships also still have this stuff on them.

I leave you to your own conscience - you have been warned!

Meme Grant, RYA instructor, examiner Ocean Yachtmaster motor and sail, SAS Ocean motor and sail, SAMSA unlimited motor and sail, ASA Cruising Instructor. 30 years of professional ocean going experience.

[Matt B.]

The following post is from the Cruising Connections forum. I was concerned about this because I used quite a bit of foam to bed my water tanks under the v-berth. What do you think about this? Do I need to remove the tanks, scrape this stuff out and find another way to bed the tanks?

\
Well, I wouldn't eat it, but I don't think it's a threat to life as we know it. I'd be perfectly comfortable sleeping on your v-berth. (Hmmm. That could be taken badly...)

First, let me say that my wife is extremely sensitive to chemicals of various types. I'm very careful about what I use around the house or elsewhere for that reason. Don't even like articificial fabrics if I can use cotton. But this stuff doesn't worry me, for the most part.

Most of the horrific chemicals they're listing as "used to make" urethane products are either used in processing but not part of the final product, or they go through chemical reactions during the manufacturing process to become something harmless. (Isocyanates, for example. If you follow the link to the OSHA web site provided in the post, you'll see that this is a class of chemicals that reacts with alcohols to create urethane polymers. It's toxic, yes. But the end result - the urethane - is NOT. Does no one take basic chemistry in high school anymore?) Urethane itself is non-toxic and stable as hell; this is why environmentalists don't like it when it gets tossed in a landfill, it takes forever to break down. It is flammable unless treated - hence the notice listed - and yeah, I'd use something to seal it from the air; I don't consider it a toxic threat, really, but it absorbs water and can become a host for all sorts of nasty things. It's used to make mattresses, insulation, flotation devices, pool toys, costumes... does this sound like something so toxic it merits the actions proposed?

There is something seriously wrong when those responsible for safety at sea will not listen to their own countries health and safety organizations or marine notices. I know that ships also still have this stuff on them.

I leave you to your own conscience - you have been warned!

Gotta say, statements like this one really bug the hell out of me. There is one person "responsible" for my safety. Me. I know many ships with urethane products on them; I know baking dishes made from urethane, too. (Thinking specifically of a foam-insulated ceramic dish.) Why <gasp> I know of plumbing installations with urethane foam insulation! Oh mon dieu!

This hysterical warning leaves out any definitive explanation of what caused the illness on board the Snowgoose (mold? The adhesive used in the foam material? Biological contamination? Aliens?) and makes all sorts of wild claims about how dangerous these chemicals are. The links provided also don't talk about a threat from urethane, only of some of the chemicals used in its manufacture. Well, yes. Some of the chemicals used in the manufacture of fiberglass are toxic, too. Do you realize you sleep ENCASED in a DEATH TRAP of toxic chemicals!!!!!!

My conscience is clear. The fear-monger who wrote this, on the other hand, should be ashamed of themselves.

[Peter]

Oh great :-(
All the foam-backed vinyl on the Vega is peeling off, leaving a crumbly powder on everything. I guess that job has to be moved up the priority list!

Thanks for the 'heads up', Allen. I'll wear my full face respirator and tyvek suite while de-foaming.

[Allen]

The links in the article deal with people who work around this stuff, and not consumer contact with it so exposure to these products once they are installed may not be as much of a concern, however, breathing any foreign substance into your lungs is probably not a good idea. We probably need to do more research on this to determine exactly how concerned we should be.

This link is to MERCHANT SHIPPING NOTICE NO. M.782 put out by the Department of Trade, Marine Division, London:

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/msn.782.pdf

It deals with polyurethane foam and other organic foam materials but it is about their potential fire hazard, and not about any respiratory or allergic reactions to dust from these products. The statement "If these materials are to be used as the insulant they should be covered with a suitable incombustible protective facing. Such storerooms should be sited as remotely as possible from sleeping accommodation, and places of high fire risk." is meant to protect sleeping areas from any fire hazard related to polyurethane foam used as insulation.

My concern is that I used foam to seat the two 40 gallon water tanks located under Kaholee's v-berth and that once I move aboard, if there is a problem with respiratory exposure to polyurethane foam dust long term exposure could represent a problem. The solution might be as simple as sealing the seams to the water tank area and putting a seal in the access hatch. Since the dust described in the article had gravity raining it down on the crew and in my application it would tend to keep the dust down in the bow area under the v-berth it may not be a problem (depends on the tendency of this stuff to become airborne).

Here's what a friend of mine who owned a auto body shop and now sails had to say which would seem to go along with Matt's comments:

I have been exposed to this stuff for the better part of my life. The body shop industry is well aware of this stuff, as most two part paint systems use isocyanates to "harden" the paint. It serves as part of the catalyst process. Most painters have a fresh air delivery system when applying the paint. After the paint dries or "cures" the gas that isocyanates are captured in escape and are no longer present. This is what I have learned and do believe. That new car smell is also to a certain degree not good for you! The out gassing of the resins in the glues, plastics, seam sealers, and paints take awhile to escape, and yes they are full of the ingredients that are posted below. Some people develop hypersensitive reactions to these chemicals, and yes I do know certain painters, body-men, and trades people who can no longer be around to these chemicals even a little bit.

As far as myself, I don't buy into the foam argument. The particulates are pretty large and a coat of paint would help keep it from degradating from UV exposure...

In my application there will be no UV exposure, but the article describes the breakdown of the products to be caused by exposure to heat over time (basically aging) but my friends comments made me think, all of the foam I have seen which was becoming powdery was exposed to direct sunlight (mostly applications in old abandoned cars). The coat of paint suggestion to seal the foam would seem to be a workable solution in my application. I think the best course of action would be to be aware of the possibility of a problem and to keep an eye on the foam over time and in the event it started to degrade, seal it with paint.

Peter, I'm curious about the life span of this stuff, how long has the foam-backed vinyl been on your boat?

[Summersdawn]

I have that foam backed vinyl on my San Juan. It is a '74, and hasn't started to crumble. 10 years ago, I got tired of looking at the yellow/tan stuff, so I picked up a quart of grey exterior 100% acrylic binder latex (used for painting exterior stucco) paint, and a quart of white. I painted it a basecoat of grey, and then "sponge" painted grey and white over top. This paint is incredible, it doesn't crack or flake with flexing (we painted a really old Zodiac with it, and it worked great, lasted a long time).

After 10 years the paint on the foam backed vinyl still looks great.

I would think that with paint, and out of the sun, it will last decades.