Seacocks and Thru-hulls

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:45 am

I'm getting ready to replace all the old gate valves and thru-hulls in the Vega. I've found a Canadian supplier (I'm in Canada) who has good prices on Buck Algonquin seacocks.

Are these good quality seacocks? The deal is attractive because they have free shipping on orders over $150, plus I won't have to pay provincial sales tax.

Post by **Tim** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:22 am

Assuming that those are cast bronze, you should be fine with them. The "stainless" steel handles tend to have a much shorter life, however, and are known to rust away after a decade or so. Fortunately, replacements are available and easy. The slim handles aren't up to much torque, and tend to bend if forced--good reason to keep the seacocks exercised and lubricated as needed.

The pictured seacock looks virtually identical to the Apollo (Conbraco) ones that I have, except for the color of the plastic coating on the handle. They're decent fittings at a decent price.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:43 pm

Thanks, Tim.
One (or two) more questions:

Bronze thru-hulls of generic Chinese manufacture: OK ... or run the other way to something like Perko?

My Yanmar installation manual calls for a 13mm (1/2") seacock to feed the engine, which is what it has now. Is there any advantage in making that a 3/4" when replacing thru-hull and seacock, then bushing down to 1/2"? The feed hose is actually 5/8" inside diameter.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:35 pm

I'm not big on products of Chinese manufacture when it really matters. Try to avoid them if possible.

I tried these Perko seacocks on the Daysailor, and they seem pretty nice. Large bolting flange, solid bronze handle. The ball is plastic, or some similar phenolic material, but seems sturdy.

I wouldn't really want my intake fitting to be smaller than the diameter of the bulk hose, but the 1/2" is probably more than adequate. That said, the smaller the opening, the easier it is for small debris to restrict the flow (or shut it off completely). If it were me, I'd likely go for a 3/4" fitting, particularly if you're planning on replacing anyway.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:36 pm

That is one major seacock!
I'm going with the Buck Algonquin (Apollo type) as space is tight and these are a nice compact unit.

So: 3/4" minimum, name-brand thru-hulls, and Buck Algonquin seacocks. Sounds like a plan.
Now for the chase :-)

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:55 am

More questions, if I may:

What is the best type of (bronze) bolt head to use on the seacock bolts that pass through the hull?

Does one use a locking nut?

Post by **Tim** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:07 am

I actually attached the wrong picture above...that's one of the 1-1/2" seacocks, not the smaller 3/4" intake.

Here is the smaller one.

Peter wrote:What is the best type of (bronze) bolt head to use on the seacock bolts that pass through the hull?

Does one use a locking nut?

I use a standard bugle head machine screw, just countersunk flush with the surface of the hull on the exterior. Inside, I use a flat washer, lock washer, and regular hex nut. Just tighten the nuts snugly; there's no need to crank on them, which can actually begin to distort the bronze bolts.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:25 am

Thanks again, Tim. You'll have to send me a consulting bill soon ;-)

I think I've found my source and materials (all Groco): 5 thru-hulls, seacocks, pipe-to-hose adaptors, and a raw water strainer for just over $250 US. I've found a local supplier for the bolts.

windrose · Post by **windrose** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:01 am

Glad you brought this up.... I've gone back and forth about installing seacocks on Wind-rose. She is on a mooring all summer, the cockpit drains would still need to be open so the seacocks would be left in the open position while she is on the mooring, which in my view negates the seacocks.

Since the risk seems the greatest when I am not on the boat.... if on the boat I would simply hammer in a bung if one of the hoses failed. Thoughts....

I admit it was a bit alarming seeing just where the water line was, water level in the drain tubes, when on a good beat.... YIKES!

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:57 am

Since the risk seems the greatest when I am not on the boat.... if on the boat I would simply hammer in a bung if one of the hoses failed. Thoughts....

Thought: It is easier to turn the handle on a seacock than to hammer in a plug.

Really though, seacocks on the cockpit drains will always start a debate. I put them in, ultimately, because I figured they can't hurt. I don't expect to use them much but I feel a seacock is more secure than the glassed in tube that I had before so even if I never close the seacock I have improved the design. I now have the option of closing the drain. Having more options is always a good thing. For starters I can replace the drain hose while in the water and I can fill the cockpit and take a bath if I so chose.

-Britton

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:28 pm

I can replace the drain hose while in the water and I can fill the cockpit and take a bath if I so chose

.

That's it ... now I'm going to install cockpit drain seacocks as well. The bath idea sold me ;-)

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:41 pm

Hehe, though no one will admit it, everyone with seacocks in their cockpit drains secretly fantasizes about those sunset baths at anchor :-)

-Britton

Post by **dasein668** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:55 pm

Ugh. Bathing in salt water.... itchy!

Or, Britton, did you plan to install a water maker? Run off your solar panel?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:45 am

Well, after a couple of weeks of dirt accumulation salt water bathing doesn't seem so bad. As I said though, bathing onboard is the fantasy of all us obsessive seacock put-er-in-ers. The details have yet to be worked out.

I am still working on the fresh water problem. I think I can squeeze 70-80 gallons onboard the Triton but still not enough for frequent bathing. Maybe once before going ashore sort of thing, when one would have the opportunity to replenish the supply. Now a water maker... now you are talking. This proves my point. I am not the only one thinking about this :-)

-Britton

Eric · Post by **Eric** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:31 am

Peter wrote:
I can replace the drain hose while in the water and I can fill the cockpit and take a bath if I so chose
.

That's it ... now I'm going to install cockpit drain seacocks as well. The bath idea sold me ;-)

A couple of stoppers would be a bit easier on both the knuckles and the wallet. Having said that, I am more comfortable for the seacocks on #635's drains in spite of the hassle. When all is said and done, it just feels right to me...

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:03 pm

bcooke wrote:This proves my point. I am not the only one thinking about this :-)

...and you could rig up a brush that connects to your detachable engine throttle and use it as a scrubby brush.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:27 pm

Nathan- when I was living aboard, and the boat was in CLEAN saltwater, I bathed in it all the time. Seldom used fresh water at all. The secret to not being sticky is (assuming CLEAN water of course) to immediately towel off rather than air or drip dry. If you air dry the salt crystals will stay on your skin, if you dry they will come off on the towel and you won't feel sticky. DO NOT take that salt water towel below and don't mix towels. Once used for salt it will retain the salt until laundered in fresh water.

A box of the moist towellettes can go a LONG way towards not feeling sticky also, as can a shot of baby powder on your skin.

Now we use a 2.5 gallon sunshower, still bath in the salt, then use the fresh to rinse with. Laura and I can usually get 4 showers from that 2.5 gallon sunshower. I bought the 2.5 gallon size cause it's about all Laura can hoist by herself- she's pretty petite.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:28 pm

Nathan- when I was living aboard, and the boat was in CLEAN saltwater, I bathed in it all the time. Seldom used fresh water at all. The secret to not being sticky is (assuming CLEAN water of course) to immediately towel off rather than air or drip dry. If you air dry the salt crystals will stay on your skin, if you dry they will come off on the towel and you won't feel sticky. DO NOT take that salt water towel below and don't mix towels. Once used for salt it will retain the salt until laundered in fresh water.

A box of the moist towellettes can go a LONG way towards not feeling sticky also, as can a shot of baby powder on your skin.

Now we use a 2.5 gallon sunshower, still bath in the salt, then use the fresh to rinse with. Laura and I can usually get 4 showers from that 2.5 gallon sunshower. I bought the 2.5 gallon size cause it's about all Laura can hoist by herself- she's pretty petite.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:10 am

I think I can squeeze 70-80 gallons onboard the Triton but still not enough for frequent bathing.

I thought the beauty of going sailing was not having to bother with bathing ;-)

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:59 pm

I thought the beauty of going sailing was not having to bother with bathing ;-)

Well, I am good up to about the end of the second week. After that the sticky feeling and smell starts getting to me. If I could just remember to keep my arms below mid-chest level so I don't get a good whiff of my armpits I could probably go another week.

Of course a quick morning dip can prolong the onset of odor but by the time I get half way up the Maine coast my interest in swimming kinda dissapears :-)

Peter, you might be a good candidate as an Outward Bound Instructor. Let me know if you are interested :-0

-Britton

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:04 pm

...and you could rig up a brush that connects to your detachable engine throttle and use it as a scrubby brush.

Sadly, I think that little bit of Triton nostalgia is going the way of Ebay. I am still debating, but the last time I heeled suddenly and the shifter went skimming across the cockpit into my shins I decided it had to go.

-Britton

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:21 am

Tim/Others

Are you happy with the Apollo seacocks that you have used? Would you use them again, or would you go with something like the Perko? I like the fact that the price of the Apollo valves are half the price of the Perko, but seacocks are not something that I want to skimp on. Thanks.

Ryan

Post by **Tim** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:42 am

I think they're really fine. I don't much like the wimpy handles, but otherwise I see no reason to complain about the Apollo seacocks. They require little maintenance and even the handles are perfectly fine after 5 seasons so far. I have seen many failed handles in my travels, however. They're a low-grade stainless.

That said, I will probably choose an all-bronze type in the future--something like the Perko ones mentioned above, or, for a premium installation, the Spartan tapered plug seacocks. The heavy bronze handles on these other types is more attractive to me overall.