Use of Veneers Below

PeteB · Post by **PeteB** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:22 pm

I've been refurbishing my early-1970's 35' Concorde (powerboat-sorry) over the past couple of years. Most of the interior surfaces (bulkheads, locker doors, etc) are 1/2" ply covered with some sort of phenolic paper/plastic resembling a dark walnut - very 1970's. I'm planning on covering these surfaces with some type of hardwood veneer - many types are available through various internet suppliers. My question is on what type of adhesive to use - the supplier I will use offers both a hot-melt adhesive backed veneer and a peel-n-stick backed veneer. The peel-n-stick is actally less expensive, and probably simpler to apply. I'd appreciate your input.

Post by **Tim** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:07 pm

Assuming they've worked out a peel and stick adhesive that will stand up over the long term, and won't fail and allow your veneer to bubble or peel, I'd say that'd be a good choice. Be sure that any adhesive you use for your veneer is at least water resistant, though. There's enough moisture on any boat to cause standard adhesives to let go.

Beyond this, I don't know that much about veneers, so I can't add much more.

PeteB · Post by **PeteB** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:28 pm

Thanks Tim, I've e-mailed the vendor about suitability of his products in a moist environment. BTW I understand thet you attended Maine Maritime. I'm a S.U.N.Y. Maritime Grad (Ft. Schuyler) '82.

kendall · Post by **kendall** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:49 pm

Personally, I'd go with a different type veneer, peel and stick types that I've used have always been tempramental, sticking perfectly for a few times, then never sticking at all for the next few times.

It is easy to apply, and seems to hold up well under most conditions, but I've never installed it in a boat, some types I have used state not to use it in bathrooms or kitchen areas.

For permanance, I'd go with the old stinky solvent based adhesive, it always holds, and is waterproof

water based gives the same tempramental results as adhesive backed,
perfection interspersed with impossible, and constant moisture softens the adhesive.

Iron on is good if the substrate is clean, dry, and smooth, scuff the old laminate with 600-800 grit, and use a constant speed and temp with the iron, for best results do a couple test runs with scrap on the same backer/veneer, needs change with each material you cover.

stay away from paperbacked veneer unless your doing houshold furniture, or jewelry boxes, water messes up the paper, and don't use water based adhesives.
Did the Lacks cancer center in Grand Rapids, it needed to be a 'green' building, so even after several arguments by myself and others, they used paperback cherry veneer and water based adhesives, shortly after opening when the humidifiers started up, several $600 sheets of veneer had to be picked up off the floor.

Ken

Ric in Richmond · Post by **Ric in Richmond** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:24 am

Where is a good source for these veneers. I am very close to just painting the formica on ine...but would love a nice "wood" cabin...

Challenger949L · Post by **Challenger949L** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:50 am

Try Yukon Lumber in Norfolk Va. I have not been there but have heard good things about them.
Jimmy Small

http://www.yukonlumber.com/

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:54 am

Van Dykes Restorers and Constantines both have veneers of the glue back and paper back types. Both have web sites.

I do furniture repair for a living, along with my boat work. Been a furniture repairer/refinisher for 25 years now.

I'm sure glad it's not ME that will attempt to reveneer bulkheads inside a boat. Hard enough to get a good adhesion out in the shop with the surface lying flat and able to heavily weight the veneer. Humidity changes plague us with bubbling even then.

You are NOT gonna have fun on this job.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:00 am

You are NOT gonna have fun on this job.

Oh come on now Charlie. It is all fun. Else why do we do it?

If the veneers prove too tough to adhere how about using 1/4" plywood with a decorative veneer on the outer face? A few well placed screws behind some trim will hold down the plywood easily.

-Britton

Post by **Tim** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:06 am

bcooke wrote:how about using 1/4" plywood with a decorative veneer on the outer face? A few well placed screws behind some trim will hold down the plywood easily.

That's what I did with the 1/4" cherry plywood that I used on my bulkheads and other areas. The trim covers all the screws around the edges and I have no veneer-related worries. It's pretty straightforward to make a pattern of your existing bulkhead, cut the new plywood to size, and attach it.

On my relatively small bulkheads, I had no worries about leaving the field of the 1/4" plywood unattached, but on a larger surface one could use some construction adhesive to help secure them.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:38 pm

The plywood is an EXCELLENT idea. PLus you may get lucky and find what you want in thinner than 1/4. There is some decorative 1/8 stuff out there.

Just make sure it won't fall apart in high moisture, or dampness.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:43 pm

And Britton- when you have veneered the top of a cabinet, like I did recently with a buffet, come to it 2 days later to apply a finish, and find some bubbles due to a huge increase in humidity, no, it ain't fun.

Grinning to keep from crying.

Of course, a hot iron on some brown paper dried it back out, the bubbles went away and the finish got shot, which locked the humidity out, so everything was fine- just cost me two days extra time in shop.

Summersdawn · Post by **Summersdawn** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:30 pm

I recently purchased some decorative 1/8" mahogany ply. It had a beautiful veneer finish on one side, and cost $18 Canadian per sheet. I cut it with a sharp utility knife, and laminated it with slightly thickened epoxy. I found it much easier to use than a veneer.

Summersdawn · Post by **Summersdawn** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:38 pm

Just make sure it won't fall apart in high moisture, or dampness.

10 years ago, I made new splashboards for my boat. I laminated them together out of 1/4" teak ply (interior grade). I then brushed 2 coats of un-thickened epoxy into the edges. They have stood up extremely well. I do not have a fabric cover over the splash-boards, they have been outside in the weather the whole time. I will probably make a new set soon, but only because the veneer is getting thin from sanding and refinishing. There is no de-lamination or other moisture defects it the splashboards.

Provided that the edges are sealed well, interior ply will stand up well to moisture. That being said, I would only use this in a "decorative" manner, and not for anything structural.

Capn_Tom · Post by **Capn_Tom** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:43 pm

Oakwood Veneer Company oakwoodveneer.com has a wide selection in a variety of thicknesses and backing. I used Titebond II wood glue applied to both surfaces, allowed to dry and then ironed the veneer in place. The heat from the iron melts the glue and it rehardens joining the two surfaces. The advantage is placement is much easier than contact cement especially on vertical surfaces. Veneer manufacturers do not recommend contact cement for veneers. So far my installation has remained tight but only time will tell.