Tile Clad Epoxy Paint

suntreader · Post by **suntreader** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:49 pm

I had asked about Tile Clad earlier and no one had tried it, so I gave it a shot. Tile Clad is a Sherwin Williams product, a two part high-gloss epoxy paint, you can get it anywhere they carry their industrial and marine coatings. It comes in white, and gray, and they say they can tint it too.

This is pretty intense paint, you can tell just by how heavy each can is. Once it is mixed there is a half hour sweat in period and it mixes up as thick as honey. Coverage is very good, two coats is plenty. The fumes are something else, with an organic respirator on I can't smell a thing, but you can smell it from the street without one on!

Even with one coat on it is pretty impressive stuff, thick, flexible, glossy, and durable as hell. The Tile Clad is going under the cockpit, the cockpit lockers, berth flats, and locker interiors. I already did the bilge and the lazarette in Bilgekote, so we'll see how they hold up next to each other.

The pictures are from the first coat, the second went on this afternoon and it'll be tomorrow before I can get back on the boat to take some 'after' pictures.

The plan for the visible fiberglass parts of the interior is two coats of high build primer and then a satin finish, something a shade or two warmer than plain white.

Anyway, just wanted to share with the group. I've also got two coats of fairing and sanding done on the interior and have started on rebuilding the interior. There's a picture at the bottom of some of the fairing. With the purple fairing its gone all tie-dye, pretty wild.

Dave

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:29 pm

I had thought about starting a new thread for this, but since you mention comparing to Bilgekote, maybe it's just as well to put my query here.

I actually do plan to paint my bilge with Bilgekote. Much of the bilge is previously painted, so I believe I'd have to remove that in order to gain the benefit of an epoxy coating, and I don't plan to do that.

Where I do have a question is in priming the very deepest sump of the bilge. This is the area that I "excavated" that held some (saturated, very odorific) filler material. This area was never painted, having never been a "finished" surface.

Although I have definitely removed all of the original smell source, of course some residual odor remains on the surface of the fiberglass down there. I'm nearly certain that the Bilgekote will take care of that (it's been scrubbed and prepped), but sometimes when I wake up at 3 a.m. I wonder if there's something more "blocking" that I could be priming with. I know epoxy would seal this, but then why purposely have the potential problem of painting over fresh epoxy (Bilgekote seems worried about this). Other products, like oil-based Kilz or white shellac might work in houses but probably not at the bottom of bilges. Epoxy Primekote? Would the Tile Clad hold up to potential standing water? Or will Bilgekote seal things off well enough...

This is the bottom of the bilge sump, so if anyplace is going to host a bit of standing water, this is it.

Thoughts or recommendations?

I had nearly given up on painting this year, since it wants 16 hours of over 50 degrees, but now I think I see a favorable window coming up.

By the way, I can move this post if there'd be a better spot for it. My bilge thread, for example.

Suntreader, the thing that's so cool about that last "tie-dyed" image is how amazingly more fabulous that's going to look when you paint it! Nothing like a really mangy looking "before" photo :D

Rachel

suntreader · Post by **suntreader** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:37 pm

Here's a link to some Tile Clad info:

http://www.sherwinwilliams.com/im/gener ... v=Products

The best part is it still says 'Marine' on the can!

I used Bilgekote in my laz and the bilge, two coats was enough for good coverage. The Bilgekote certainly went on easy and was straight forward to use, really just a good oil based enamel I guess.

I don't know what your bilge looks like but mine was the absolute worst I have ever encountered, really unbelievably bad. Here's a look before the water tank came out:

I don't think you would have completely remove all the paint to use the epoxy coating, I didn't, just gave it a through grinding and sanding to remove any loose paint. The key to good application of any coating is surface prep, get everything as clean as possible, do a final wipe with an acetone dampened rag and slop some paint on and you're done. Another good practice is to do a final cleaning with some TSP in warm water.

I wouldn't try coating the surface with plain epoxy and the Bilgekote shouldn't need priming. The Tile Clad goes on without a primer. I don't think standing water should be a problem for either coating. The Bilgekote is made for it, and the Tile Clad is listed as being used for off shore equipment, chemical processing equipment, shower walls, prisons, and all kinds of other stuff. Another common use is on garage floods, and testimony from users in that area say the concrete chips before the coating comes loose.

Time will tell but I think the Tile Clad is a tougher coating than the Bilgekote, the Bilgekote though is probably more than enough for these applications. One limitation I do know of is not to use it in an exposed area since the UV in sunlight will make the paint chalk after long exposure. I got the idea for the stuff from Reuel Parker's book "The New Cold Molded Boat Building," he uses the Tile Clad for about everything, and even as a primer on the topsides and deck. Here is a link to the part of the book talking about the paint:

http://books.google.com/books?id=VnoW5Y ... g#PPA69,M1

The tie-dye look is really quite an improvement over how it was before. The boat was a hurricane Charlie victim and has been sitting outside with the hatches off until I brought her home eight months ago. I figured as long as I was going to do as thought a restoration as I had planned it didn't matter what condition it was in since the work would be the same. Then I spent three months cleaning the bilge.

Dave

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:13 pm

suntreader wrote: I figured as long as I was going to do as thought a restoration as I had planned it didn't matter what condition it was in since the work would be the same. Then I spent three months cleaning the bilge.

I hear you on that one! Thanks for the additional info.

I may have disguised it in all my rambling, but the one thing I'm wondering if I need a different or additional product for is keeping any residual aromatics smell sealed off from the boat. I've removed the source, and cleaned thoroughly, but there is still a certain amount of odor that's just there. I'd like to abolish that when I paint, and want to make sure I'm using the best product (or combination of products) for that.... the first time.

Since it's been too cold to paint, I've had plenty of time to shudder over the thought of having to strip and re-do if the Bilgekote is not effective.

Sorry if I hijacked your thread a bit - that wasn't my intention. Something like Tile Clad is what I wonder if I should be using, although Bilgekote certainly seems friendly and easy, and I've already got some on hand.

Rachel

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:21 am

suntreader wrote:The fumes are something else, with an organic respirator on I can't smell a thing, but you can smell it from the street without one on!

AwlGrip's smell is completely blocked by an organic vapors cartridge as well, but isocyanates are odorless and get through easily. The same is true for Bristol Finish. I know nothing of the product (Tile Clad), but for details the MSDS would need be consulted. But don't let smell or lack of it be your judge for the effectiveness of safety precautions.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:29 am

Yikes, is that true? I was under the impression that it was okay to use a regular (i.e. non-supplied air) respirator (with appropriate cartridges) with AwlGrip, as long as it was not being sprayed. What you're saying seems to counter this, so perhaps I need to check my research.

Maybe the "if you can start to smell it it's time to change cartridges" is misguided?

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:39 am

Yikes, is that true? I was under the impression that it was okay to use a regular (i.e. non-supplied air) respirator (with appropriate cartridges) with AwlGrip, as long as it was not being sprayed. What you're saying seems to counter this, so perhaps I need to check my research.

That's my understanding as well, Rachel. Unless the isocyanate is atomized by the spraying process, it poses little threat. A high quality "regular" respirator is, as far as I know, sufficient.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:17 am

Rachel- that's also my understanding- as long as it's not being atomized, what you are smelling is the solvents evaporating.

Roll on is pretty safe, spraying is not.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:07 pm

The smell test for a cartridge does indicate its effectiveness for filtering out things that it actually works on in the first place. All I am saying is that not all toxins are filtered out by organic vapors cartridges, nor do they necessarily have an odor. Isocyanates do not have an odor nor are they filtered out by any type of cartridge. Just because you can't smell the Xylene doesn't mean you are safe from the isocyanates. Atomized AwlGrip is definitely more dangerous than rolled and tipped, that does not mean rolled and tipped or brushed fumes are safe.

If you read the Bristol Finish labels and instructions they are telling you that limited exposure in relatively small doses isn't dangerous. But people differ greatly in their sensitivity to different chemicals. Some people can smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day for life and not get cancer. That doesn't make 'em safe. Supplied air is the only known protection from isocyanates. If you are breathing an atmosphere containing fumes of products that use isocyanates no filter is going to protect you. If you believe that limited exposure is safe enough, that is your choice. Isocyanates scare the crap out of me.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:21 pm

I'm glad they scare the cr-p out of you, Dave. I wish more people who worked in boat yards were like that. I'm often surprised by the cavalier attitude many of the crew take to toxins (which of course makes me look all prissy by comparison which is not good).

One time I walked up to a guy who had been grinding for hours with one of those super-loud air grinders, and then I noticed that when he talked to me, the "markers" for someone wearing ear protection weren't there. I asked him about it and he said he'd been doing it for 20+ years, and he didn't know that this could damage his hearing, nor was he concerned about it (this was at a yard that actually did have a good safety policy; the fellow was new and didn't stay long). Maybe he was the "George Burns" of hearing, because he actually could still hear me. He went right back to grinding when I moved on. My ears would have been screaming in pain.

I guess I'm guilty of believing "conventional wisdom" that the AwlGrip is "safe" to roll with a normal respirator --- because I haven't actually looked it up myself. I will do before I use any though. Thanks for the heads up.

Ancient Race · Post by **Ancient Race** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:06 pm

Not to hijack the thread to ask the supposedly non-existent stupid question, but:

In an enclosed shop or spray booth, what's the normal source of supplied air?

Post by **Tim** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:40 pm

Link: Something like this.

Capn_Tom · Post by **Capn_Tom** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:27 am

Back to your primer question Rachel. You could use interprotect as a primer which would accomplish all you were looking for. I don't know that it is worth the cost and effort though.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:50 am

I've thought about that, Tom. I have some on hand, so the expense is not an issue, but I'm just not sure about it for this application. If there's any extra "oopmh" I want over just plain Bilgekote, it's in the vapor-transmission department, and of course most paints/primers aren't talking about that. If only I had a moisture or adhesion problem -- there's lots of products designed for those problems (not that I WANT those problems).

If this area weren't six-feet down, narrow, and soon to be beneath my engine, I'd be much happier to just experiment.

Right now I'm waiting to get well, and for the weather to warm up, which it looks like it will do tomorrow for a few days. So far I'm thinking I will just use Bilgekote, but the potential for it not to seal of the residual odor is bugging me, is all.

Thanks for the input,

Rachel

Ancient Race · Post by **Ancient Race** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:57 am

Tim wrote:Link: Something like this.

Thanks Tim. I knew about the necessary equipment, but I was curious about the intake. When I first looked at your picture I thought you might be advocating opening a window, but the link clarified things:

Additional (extra) equipment needed to help the system run at its most efficient and best are a length of intake extension hose, which allows the air intake to be located in a remote area outside the shop (while the compressor remains inside), and a remote-control switch designed for dust collection systems, which allows the compressor to be turned on and off at will from the boat, or any location inside the shop.

Again, apologies for the hijack.