Keeping things dry?

[JonnyBoats]

I am sure that every sailor at one time or another has had something important ruined by salt water while on the boat. Just recently I had to replace my passport which had gotten wet, and years ago I had a VHF radio go bad while on a cruse when water leaked through the deck and landed on the radio.

We are planning on living aboard our LeComte Northeast 38, and having such things a laptop computers, cellphones, ham radio etc., all things that don't pay very well with salt water.

In an ideal world, we would have a watertight compartment for such things, but alas such is not to be on our boat :-(

What tips, tricks, ideas and solutions have others come up with to deal with this problem? In particular I am interested in more than just "keep things in a Pelican case", I want to know how to protect things like laptop computers and use them for electrinic charting etc at the same time.

[Rachel]

When I was living aboard and sailing, even though the boat was "dry," I did take measures to protect things. Also, being a fiberglass boat, things up against the hull sides always had dampness potential.

For bedding and the like, I stowed in (hard-to-find) 2-gallon Zip-Loc freezer bags. They are air permeable (eventually) but watertight. If things were dry when put away, I found that they stayed fresh.

Actually lots of things were stowed in Zip-Locs.

"Current" clothing was kept on painted wooden shelves in the (former) hanging locker, and were fine.

The nav. computer was kept on the nav. desk, just inside the companionway to starboard, where it did have the potential to get splashed. We had a two-part system for that. First of all, there was a bungie strap to hold it down, which could be used whether the computer was open or closed (or left off completely in port). Then there was a sheet of plastic that ran under the computer from bottom to top. Actually, under the computer it was "Scoot Guard" and near the upper part of the base, transitioned to clear plastic. The plastic would stow in a roll just behind the computer and could be unrolled over the top of the computer when it was closed. I'm trying to remember what we covered the keys with when it was open.... I think we just lowered the lid a bit and rolled the plastic down.

Power tools were kept in Zip-Locs, and hand tools in plastic tool boxes. Originally they were in drawers, but I liked the boxes because you could bring the lot up on deck or to a project.

Bulk food storage was also in freezer Zip-Locs (buy stock!). The type with the sliding tab tended to puncture other bags, so we stuck with the old fashioned type with the "zip lips." I originally used various Tupperware type containers for "daily use" baking stuff, but in the end preferred quart glass canning jars. They were more airtight and didn't take on smells.

I'm probably leaving out some things; ask away if you want to know anything more specific.

--- Rachel

[Summersdawn]

For bedding, etc. I like to use those giant storage bags that you zip closed like a ziplock, then roll the air out of them with the 1 way check valves. I don't remeber the name of them, but I'm sure someone will chime in. Not only do they keep things dry, but they take up a quarter of the amount of storage.

[CharlieJ]

If you have A/C power aboard, get yourself a vacumn bagger, like a Food Saver ( WalMart).

Buy the bags in rolls and make them the length you need. You can vacumn bag sweaters, sheets, engine spares, etc, etc. Limited only by your imagination and the size of the bags.

And they WILL NOT leak.

[Rachel]

Charlie,

I'm just curious: Do the Food Saver bags eventually lose their seal, or do they stay "scrunched"? Zip-Locs won't stay scrunched for very long - although they do stay waterproof. I guess they are slightly air permeable.
In our case, that was okay, and the "re-usable-ness" was a plus, but I might like to try the Food Saver bags in some other situations, or for things like spares that you really hope not to use for a looong time.

--- Rachel

[JonnyBoats]

These are great ideas.

What do people do to keep papers (like your USCG document) dry?

[dasein668]

Do the Food Saver bags eventually lose their seal, or do they stay "scrunched"?

A correctly sealed bag is not air-permeable, at least over a 12 month period. I'm sure that with zippies, the problem is the zipper, not the plastic of the bag itself.

[CharlieJ]

Where did my post answering Rachel go???

Rachel- the bags are tight enough that you can use them as boiling bags. We freeze leftovers, then cook them by just plopping the bag into boiling water.

I had lots of other info in the post, but it seems to have gone missing.

[Tim]

I believe that first focusing on making, and keeping, the boat itself dry in places where it shouldn't be wet is the first step towards clean and dry living aboard.

If there are deck leaks, fix them.

If the bedding compound is old, replace it and prevent leaks from occurring in the first place.

If the bilges and lockers are damp and nasty, clean them and paint them. I'm a broken record, but this makes a huge and exponentially significant difference to the dryness of the entire interior. Do it, and you'll become a believer.

Inexpensive plastic carpet runners--the type with the little spikes on the bottom that grip carpet--are great for lining lockers. The little spikes hold the plastic just a bit off the hull and allow for air and moisture movement, while the heavy plastic helps keep the locker contents isolated from the hull. You buy this material in rolls at the home center or wherever. I have used this in all the larger lockers on board, and am very pleased with it.



Beyond these initial preventative steps, Ziploc bags are extremely handy, of course. I use dozens of these things for all tasks, such as storing paperwork, money, batteries, and of course food--both in the icebox as well as all dry goods. Buy the heavy freezer bags for best results. I keep oodles of these on board in various sizes at all times. I reuse the ones I can, but am not fanatic about it.

The vacuum sealers are great for packing food. I don't have one, but I used Nathan's once and it was extremely handy. I think they'd be good for valuables too--maybe vac-seal them and then place the sealed packets in a Ziploc bag. If I don't keep forgetting, I may buy one before this cruising season.

I have kept a laptop computer on board for 5 seasons with no special protection, other than a basic laptop case (and not one of those secret-agent types--just a basic leather case). I wouldn't set off on my world cruise with this as the only protection for a valuable laptop, but my point is that being on board all season with no special moisture or other protection has worked so far. That said, if this computer were to up and die, I wouldn't cry--it was an old used one to begin with. For a fancier, newer, more expensive version, and truly long-term exposure, I am sure I would take some other steps.

I lined my clothes lockers on board with 1/2" foam insulation against the hull, with a 1/4" plywood interior surface above. This has been extremely successful in keeping these lockers dry so far.

The above is what I have done. I have not had any problems with damp clothes, food, or valuables. I chalk up a lot of this success to the initial steps at the top of the list.

[Rachel]

What do people do to keep papers (like your USCG document) dry?

What we did was buy some soft file holders at Target. These were shaped like plastic "tacos" with a zipper around three sides, and they had plastic dividers inside -- they are already meant for letter-sized files. They aren't waterproof in-and-of themselves, but once you fill one up it can be neatly slipped into a 2-gallon Zip-Loc freezer bag. We kept papers in one of the lockers behind the settee (right up against the hull) using this method and they stayed completely dry.

For boat-equipment manuals, I just stacked as many in a pile as would fit in a 1-gallon Zip-Loc, and then made a cover sheet with a list (in order) of what was in the bag. The cover sheet went in on top, so you could see all that was in the bag, and where, before you even opened it. I always coveted boxes and the like, but when it came down to fitting a lot in a small space, we never found anything to beat the Zip-Locs. We had an entire special drawer on the boat dedicated to them!

Also, most laptops will slip right into a 2-gallon. After shopping all kinds of computer-specific bags, and not finding one I really liked, I spent a couple of hours and made my own open-topped foam case out of sleeping pad scraps and cloth. That case would fit into the backpack that I used for other things as well (or could be taken out). So, slip laptop into Zip-Loc, Zip loc into foam case that's in backpack (and the lot into a waterproof bag if the dinghy trip looked dicey) and you're good to go.

Charlie: Sorry about your earlier reply; I know how discouraging it is to re-type something that you've already written. Bleah. One thing I started doing in my early Hotmail days was quickly highlighting and copying all my text in a given post before I sent it out. Then if there was a glitch, I had it right there. (Of course that doesn't work if it's only much later you see a post not showing up.)

Those Food Saver bags look like they have some good uses.

[Rachel]

I believe that first focusing on making, and keeping, the boat itself dry in places where it shouldn't be wet is the first step towards clean and dry living aboard.

I absolutely agree, Tim. Just in case I wasn't totally clear, the dampness I was talking about wasn't from leaks, but just the condensation that can occur if your hull-sides aren't insulated, and/or just from being in the tropics. I cannot stand actual leaks in a boat.

Finally, a great-looking use for that plastic stuff with the little prongs on the back! And here the manufacturers thought times were going to be lean after all the grandmothers and great-aunts who were protecting couches and hallways were gone...

Nathan: Interesting about the Zip-Locs. I'd always assumed it was just air eventually moving slightly through the plastic. I've never had anything in a Zip-Loc get wet at all, but just noticed that even though I sucked the air out of them when I put stuff in (so they were scrunched), when I went back a few weeks (or so) later, they were no longer as tightly scrunched.

--- R.

[dasein668]

Nathan: Interesting about the Zip-Locs. I'd always assumed it was just air eventually moving slightly through the plastic. I've never had anything in a Zip-Loc get wet at all, but just noticed that even though I sucked the air out of them when I put stuff in (so they were scrunched), when I went back a few weeks (or so) later, they were no longer as tightly scrunched.

Well, I haven't made an exhaustive study or anything... it just seemed to me most likely that the zip was the first place air would leak through... I may be completely wrong.

I've never had anything get wet in a zippie on board either. I love them. I just think the seal isn't air-tight. (Which isn't a problem, except in the case where you are trying to use it as a vacuum bag! hehe)

[JonnyBoats]

I believe that first focusing on making, and keeping, the boat itself dry in places where it shouldn't be wet is the first step towards clean and dry living aboard.

I agree. I guess I have two thoughts:

1) My concerns are not so much for a beautiful day along the coast in summer but rather for storm conditions at sea.

2) My idea of a watertight boat is a Coast Guard motor life boat like the 47s.

While I have seen pictures in books of companionways with watertight doors, I have never seen a companionway in person on a sailboat that I would consider truly watertight. Thinking here of a large breaking wave that either poops the boat or lays her over on beam ends.

It is common to have the nav station just under the companionway. This seems to me like water getting onto the nav station is inevitable if one does enough time at sea.

I'm not trying to be a futz or a total nerd here (well maybe I am one without trying) but to me one should try to make the boat watertight _and_ get a waterproof VHF radio.

Maybe I am too influenced by the writings of Hal Roth where he basically laments that virtually all decks of fiberglass sailboats built in the 1960s will leak sooner or later. God knows he lost stuff to water damage and he ended up having his deck rebuilt to address the problem.

So given modern methods and techniques, is it now possible to make an older sailboat like my LeComte Northeast 38 watertight?

[Tim]

My idea of a watertight boat is a Coast Guard motor life boat like the 47s.

......

So given modern methods and techniques, is it now possible to make an older sailboat like my LeComte Northeast 38 watertight?

To the standards of a motor life boat? Probably never.

To a reasonable standard that will accommodate 99% or more of the actual conditions you are ever likely to face? Yes, it's feasible. But starting with an old boat, you're likely to need to undertake some significant renewal of certain installations, including deck hardware and quite possibly the hull-deck joint and toerail. Lacking this commmitment, it seems like learning to accept leaks will have to be part of daily life.

Anyone truly expecting to experience storm conditions at sea far from the safety of a snug harbor should, in my opinion, be looking at some significant upgrades to any boat.

[Duncan]

I swear by Folger's plastic coffee containers, especially the little ones (1/2 lb?), which are very handy for small stuff.

They don't rust, they're durable, the lids stay good and tight, and the plastic doesn't hurt anything when they roll around.

I was having coffee with a friend on his boat, and I noticed he was just about down to the end of the Folger's plastic canister (one of the nice small ones, too). When I asked him if I could have it, he said "Oh, no you don't, I've been waiting for this one to get used up".

[Al]

I tried the Folger's plastic coffee cans and discovered that the lid did not stay on very well and it was not water-tight (guess how I found that out). However, the very similar but somewhat larger Domino sugar 4 lb. plastic containers have a much tighter fitting top and are reasonably water-tight. (I think Domino switched to the plastic containers to hide the fact that a small bag of sugar used to be 5 lbs. and the new plastic container is only 4 lbs.)

[Rachel]

Of all the myraid "Tupperware" like containers I tried (and I tried a LOT of them), these humble looking Rubbermaid ones worked the best. Airtight, in my experience, and much tougher than they seem at first heft. Also, they have that square efficiency.

The photo shows a flip-top version (more expensive, harder to clean, and not secure, in my opinion), but if you scroll down they have a screw-lid option. That's what I had. Years later, I'm STILL using them for dog food, and I drag them all over the place, toss them in my car, etc. -- and they refuse to break or die.

The screw lid is easy to grip, as is the whole container, and they were cheapish (~ $2 for the 1-gallon size).



http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/pr ... Prod100059

I also had some of the nice-looking "Click-Clack" brand containers, but they proved not to be airtight, over time, and they're expensive. Aesthetically pleasing, though. In fairness, I had the square ones (they have square lids); the round ones might work better, but then you lose all the space in the corners. Nice thing about the Rubbermaids above - they're square, but have round lids.

--- Rachel

[CharlieJ]

And then there's the popular kitty litter containers. The ones we have are clear so you can see what's in there.

A friend with a cat gives them to us. Work really well in cockpit lockers.