West Marine says "bad weather" lowered sales.

[Tim]

Bad weather? Maybe, but they seem to continue to fail to factor in the fact that their prices are sky-high and completely uncompetitive. Add in poor selection and service at many of their retail stores, and I think we have the real reason for a decline in sales.

West Marine blames weather for sales decline



West Marine Inc. saw its same-store sales drop in the second quarter because of dismal weather conditions in two key boating regions.

?Continuing poor weather in April and May on both coasts dampened second-quarter sales, especially when compared to the great spring weather we enjoyed last year,? said CEO Peter Harris in a statement. ?Unlike last year, many boats in our Northeast region, from the Mid-Atlantic up through the Northeastern Seaboard and across to the Great Lakes, remained in storage until June. Although sales picked up along with better weather in June, we still had a disappointing second quarter.?

The Watsonville, Calif.-based retailer reported a 0.4-percent increase in net sales for the 13 weeks ended July 2 ? to $253.5 million from $252.6 million a year ago. However, same-store sales fell 3.5 percent, compared to a 4.6-percent increase in the 2004 quarter.

Second-quarter same-store sales by region were as follows: Northeast, down 6.5 percent, compared to a 5-percent increase last year; Southeast, up 2.1 percent, compared to a 2.2-percent increase in the 2004 quarter; and West, down 5.5 percent, compared to a 7.2-percent increase in the year ago period.

Net sales for the 26 weeks ended July 2 decreased 0.8 percent to $378.9 million, from net sales of $381.8 million for the same period a year ago. Same-store sales for the latest 26 weeks fell 4.6 percent, compared to a 6.2-percent increase in the 2004 period

Harris said a poor second quarter for has sometimes been followed by a better third quarter for West Marine. However, he said failure to achieve that rebound early on could result in a reduction in earnings forecast for the year, in the range of 15 cents per share. West Marine will provide an update on its guidance for the year during an earnings conference call scheduled for July 28.

[Figment]

My father went into West the other day for some new duckbill-valve thingies for his head. Totally a common part that they really should have on the shelves. But they didn't. The asst. manager's comment was something to the effect of "oh, this has been a terrible year so far. We have nothing in stock. Nobody is using their boat this year."

What the heck does that apple have to do with that orange?

[radicalcy]

The West Marine in Deltaville,Va a really busy store, always has everything that I'm looking for, in stock. The store here in Richmond,which is busy only in season, (May to Sept) RARELY has what I'm looking for. West, like many retailers uses CAO. Computer Assisted Ordering. But as I found out when working for Kroger Stores, CAO only works if you set the base shelf count at the correct level.If the computer shows that you only sold 1 item of a product over a 6 month period, and you normally carry two, in the slow season, then the computer won't order until the stock is depleted. Each West store has an Inventory Manager, that is responsible for updating and maintaining the CAO, and in my opinion, the problem is simply that some do a better job of ordering than others. Add to this the fact that they only get one shipment a week, and you have a recipe for empty shelves
As for pricing, they will match any advertised price, if you have a hard copy of the ad. Even internet prices, adjusted for shipping. Can't get any more competitive than that, in my opinion. But it's up to the consumer to do the work (Research) in order to get the best price.
Larry Wilson

[Tim]

I don't think one should have to drag catalogs and flyers around to the store to get a competitive price. Price matching is useless to me; I just buy from the vendor who had the better price to begin with.

If West and Port Supply want business from people like me, they need to adjust their pricing to remain competitive without making me do all the work. Otherwise, I'll continue to buy elsewhere. I don't have time to mess around with pricing games. There's work to be done.

West, like many retailers uses CAO. Computer Assisted Ordering

As to store stock, I realize that many West stores are better than our little one here in Portland, but the quality of this store here is inexcusable for such a large national chain. It's not alone in being a poor store, either. It's clear that there is a flaw in their system, as you pointed out.

West grew too large, too fast. In doing so, they lost sight of why they were successful in the first place, in my opinion. Explosive growth (normally fueled by the company going public) is rarely beneficial to the core consumer. West Marine is now the bad guy in the marine industry and is widely reviled, which is too bad since they started out as an excellent catalog retailer with low pricing. More corporate and stockholder greed at the general expense of the customer.

What ever happened to honest work (or product) for a fair price, instead of trying to see how much one can get for their product or service? A reasonable profit is reasonable for everybody--seller and buyer alike. Is that too much to ask?

[bcooke]

What really annoyed me about West Marine is when I found out that they raise the price of seasonal items when the demand increases. (Note: this is not supply and demand at work. The supply side isn't stressed only the demand for the product is temporarily increased.) I have seen varnish prices jump 75% just when spring varnishing time arrives. This is price gouging and now that I know they are out to screw me over just when I need them I always look elsewhere before checking them out.

On the other hand, I have heard rumors that the employee discounts are pretty nice. I wonder if I could stand the shame of wearing their uniform to get it.

-Britton

[dasein668]

Employee discounts are excellent. Well below the Port Supply prices. On some items prices can be as low as 70-80% below list.

The local West Marine reported its best ever day on Friday, I think, before the 4th of July.

And while I agree that West's selection, locally, blows chunks, I would add that the Portland Hamilton Marine store is no better in terms of inventory. (pricing is much better though!)

[Rachel]

I don't think one should have to drag catalogs and flyers around to the store to get a competitive price. Price matching is useless to me; I just buy from the vendor who had the better price to begin with.

Hear, hear! To me that says "For those who want to fuss around and bother and (essentially) beg, we'll give better prices; everyone else can just overpay while we laugh all the way to the bank."

Because of that, I'll go out of my way to patronize others.

While I was in San Diego (which has a totally wonderful "Ma and Pa" store called Downwind Marine), I went into the West Marine from time-to-time. They had one really wonderful feature, which was a large bulletin board right by the door that was chock full of real, boaty want-ads - put up by private individuals and advertising useful gear at good prices. They also had a knowledgable staff (as compared to some other WM stores), probably because they were mostly cruisers working for the discount.

I was completely put off them when I walked in one day and the bulletin board was completely plastered with pages from the latest WM sale flyer. Want ads were gone, completely. That pretty much showed me where their loyalties were. I mean, it's not as if the WM chain was losing a lot of revenue by those few private sales; I'll bet they made *more* by virtue of people like me, who stopped in to check out the ads for things I would never have bought retail in the first place, but then happened to pick something up at WM in the process.

Luckily there are still alternatives - may they prosper and not turn into big chains...

Thank goodness for mail order.

--- R.

[radicalcy]

Okay, I'll concede that WM is more expensive if you don't want to take on the job of price matching. And yeah, they are somewhat stodgy when it comes to folks advertising for free on their (West's) bulletin board. Hmmm...sort of like a boat broker having a bulletin board listing all of the privately owned boats in the area for sale, but not getting a commission. I'm guessing also that all of the folks that replied to this thread paid the asking price for the last Triton they bought because it was too much trouble to negotiate.
Sorry, I just get tired of hearing about how the "big bad major retailers" mistreat the "poor downtrodden consumers" and wonder if you'd feel the same way if you were a stockholder, cashing a dividend check.
Okay, I'll let it go now. I feel better.
Larry Wilson

[Tim]

I'm guessing also that all of the folks that replied to this thread paid the asking price for the last Triton they bought because it was too much trouble to negotiate.

That's complely unnecessary and disingenuous.

[Jason K]

WM is more expensive regardless of whether or not you take the time to price match. Price matching is an increasingly common promise of major retailers, from electronics, to home imorovement, to boating. However, while many of the retailers do offer it, they do so knowing that a very small portion of their customers will take advantage of it. The measure of a company's pricing structure is what they print on their pricetags, not what you can haggle for each item.

However, my gripe with WM is not just that they are expensive. I understand that price isn't everything and, while price is imprtant to me, it's almost never the sole determinant when I am making a purchase. The truth of the matter is, in New Orleans, everything is very expensive if you choose to purchase locally. While we have a very active and talented sailing community here, it is tiny relative to the primary on-the-water recreation in Southern Louisiana: fishing. As a result, there are only a few chandleries that cater to sailors and only two near the marinas: West Marine and a locally owned operation called Sea Chest. Interestingly, West Marine is often the cheaper of the two for some sailing hardware.

What bothers me is that WM prices are high across the board. A retailer the size of WM has the ability to purchase on a large scale, so it is a fair assumption, I think, that their purchasing power would be on par with a company like Ace Hardware. So, when I see a can of stripper at Ace for $15 and then at WM for $36 or bolt cutters at WM for $200 when they can be purchased anywhere else for $100, I fell that WM's pricing structure borders on larceny. I also feel that when an organization pushes their profit margin that high without offering any co-benefits to their products or services that they are preying on their own cutomers.

I will continue to shop at WM for the essentials that I need quickly. However, Tim's initial assessment is correct; the combination of poor product selection, poor service, and obscene prices may doom the company. The reason the prices are so high is because the market is small and there are few market alternatives. However, if they continue to antagonize their market with the pricing and product structure currently in place, they are likely to discover that the small market will turn on them when a viable competitor comes along.

In response, Larry, to your remark that a bulletin board in West Marine is comparable to a boat broker advertising for-sale-by-owner ships, I have to disagree. Broker boats and privately held boats for sale are direct competition. A bulletin board, on the other hand, is a prominent tie to the local sailing community (i.e., the target market.) If customers have a place to post their boats for sale, look for crew, or even sell used parts, it's a good way to increase foot traffic. Rachel is absolutely correct when she points out that WM would generate far more revenue through increased traffic than they would lose through cannibalized sales. What disturbs me is that the removal of the boards is another symptom of an us vs. them disease that I feel infects West Marine.

Additionally, if I were a shareholder of West Marine I would feel precisely as I do now. The higher the prices, the fewer the sales. At some point profit margin will not overwhelm unit sales and the company loses revenue and profit. Additionally, the badwill created will also have a bottom line effect. Thus the article Tim posted prompting this discussion and the value of West Marine stock, which is down signifcantly over the last couple of years.

[Figment]

pfffft.

They'll set their prices as high as the market will bear, and not a penny less. There's no reason why this should not be the case.

I don't fault WM for their capitalism. I'm simply frustrated by the fact that the "general boating public" has molded them (and the rest of the industry) into what they are.

One would hope that their current sales decline is due to some measure of enlightenment on the part of that general public, but I'm not holding my breath. The pontoon-boat crowd seems to have an endless supply of disposable cash.

[Jason K]

I think the best choice would to simply purchase most supplies outside of the marine industry. I bought my powerboat at Pier One (which has a deceptively nautical name) and I purloined the motor from a drunk Cajun fisherwoman during a poker game.

[dasein668]

I bought my powerboat at Pier One (which has a deceptively nautical name)

Jeez, man. I dunno... A wicker hull sure would have a lot of drag....

[Tim]

Jeez, man. I dunno... A wicker hull sure would have a lot of drag....

Not to mention that the lack of watertight integrity in the cockpit would ruin your white bucks and Nantucket reds.

[tartan30cirrus]

I gotta say my local WM has a couple people who have some decent experience and have been helpful to me. I think two of the girls at checkout are also quick and efficient. Some things at West are not overpriced, I have found. Service is HUGE and I am finding my local WEST service to be better than my local Hamilton's. I will pay for service. I still don't get why West is seemingly out of stock of exactly what you need all the time, it seems.

Cheers,
Clint

[catamount]

Here in the hinterlands, we don't have a "local" West Marine (or any other sort of chandlery). Sure, we've got a few local stores/"marinas" that cater to the needs of small powerboats on our lakes and ponds, and then there's the "boating" section at WalMart... but they're not much help for my needs. So it's mostly catalog and internet shopping for me.

Can anyone with historical insight compare the current situation regarding pricing and stocking to what things were like before West Marine and Boat/US joined forces?

Does anyone know what's going on at SailNet.com? Literally everything in their (limited) inventory is being offered at reduced prices on clearance sale terms, and there are numerous reports of no service.

For what it is worth, I've been very happy with the products and service from Landfall Navigation, although they're not a full-line chandlery, sticking with the best stuff in navigatin, safety and communications.

Regards,

[FloatingMoneyPit]

I noticed the same thing about Sailnet. They no longer answer their phone or respond to emails, and the package tracking # never shows up. You just get an order confirmation email and cross your fingers.
I canceled an order via email, which seems to have worked, so someone is still alive there.
It's funny, as soon as Sailnet declared it's "huge summer clearance sale", Wal-Marine (McMarine?) started a "Huge summer sale!" the next day. But of course, it's on size 4 moccasins, all grills but the one I want, etc.

I will say that the Boat US I use (& used pre-merger) has been quite good, with several knowledgeble staff members and a usually full inventory. Of the 5 Wests I've frequented, one is useless, 2 have decent staff but shady inventory, and one is predictably deficient (token store in midtown Manhattan).
Boatersworld is also useful for a decent s.s. fastener selection and better prices on maintenance items. Also the only place for MAS epoxies.
Just need to avoid the retired-now-wannabe-fisherman staff.

The one plus of West and other chains is that it's like fast food chains: you know the menu before you walk in. Inventory issues aside (& West's website lets you check the actual invetory before visiting), I always know which ring terminals or ball valves or anchors will be inside.

How about an "ideal chandlery" thread?
Lockwoods in NJ (off Raritan bay) exemplifies what a chandlery should be. It's actually part of a large family-run marina complex. They carry one of every model from every manufacturer, the staff are all avid boaters, they have a guy whose sole job is to sit in front of the parts room and know what you need before you ask, and their boatyard staff can fabricate anything they don't sell. Prices are not always as good as the West next door, but you can't beat the service. Plus a sell-your-own marine flea market every spring.

[Tim]

This answer is a bit beyond the scope of the question, but I thought I'd add a few thoughts on some of the online retailers.

West Marine
Stock at our local WM has been touch and go since the store opened back in the early 90s. At that time, the store seemed pretty good, as we had no other large chandlerys in the area. I don't think the quality or amount of stock has changed that much at the local store here; it's just never been that in touch with the needs of local boaters, in my opinion.

I do think that the vast expansion of WM retail stores had an adverse effect on their catalog sales for a time. They seem to have addressed that, and the Internet/catalog generally has items in stock and ships out quickly. You now find out when you order whether the item is in stock, and the email/shipping/tracking notifications are second to none.

Joining with Boat/US expanded the retail venture even further, and the overall effect seems to have reduced service and raised prices, though the prices have trended upwards ever since the company went public and expanded across the country.

Sailnet
Some people report good service here. I had a series of nightmares during Glissando's restoration 5 years ago, and have not returned since. I gave them every chance I could, and every benefit of the doubt, but I was let down over and over. Therefore, I'm not inclined to try again.

Pyacht.com
I like Pyacht. Their prices are as low as I have found, generally, and often beat the WM wholesale price (Port Supply). Never mind how ridiculous that is, and how that underscores the highness of the WM pricing. Service is very fast, and items are in stock. They're always a good choice, or at least they have been when I have needed things.

Hamilton Marine
Hamilton has been going downhill at the retail locations, but their catalog/Internet sales are generally pretty decent. I recently ordered an item, received an email that it was backordered, and then promptly received the item the next day anyway.

Jamestown
JT is great for fasteners, building supplies, and the like. They don't have it all, but for the hardcore builder or restorer, they have a good selection, a good website (that actually shows the amount of stock at the time of order), and very fast service. I have a commercial account there and get even better pricing and very good customer service. I return to JT over and over again.

Bolt Depot
If you need fasteners, particularly small quantities, check here. They have most types, and the service is very fast; stock is good. Prices are quite good and are inline with Hamilton or JT. I usually go to JT when I want boxes of fasteners, but for larger ones where you want only a few, Bolt Depot is very good.

[Eric]

I've been very happy with Annapolis Performance Sailing for stuff that Hamilton Marine doesn't carry (Hamilton seems to struggle with anything not in their catalog). APS has shipped everything (in stock) next day and UPS Ground has arrived at my door about 36 hours later.

-- Eric

[tartan30cirrus]

I am an active member of the Tartan and Atomic 4 Sailnet lists and the talk has been that they are closing up shop. It is still in the rumor stage but a lot of the rumors are saying the same thing and apparently someone went to their store and it was locked up! I got the wrong tiller extension through them (my fault) and fear that I'll never get it returned. I have gotten no call/emails back in 2 weeks and have left/sent a number of messages. Bye, Bye Sailnet it seems. Too bad.

Cheers,
Clint

[Jason K]

Regarding Sailnet:

Sailnet has filed for bankruptcy protection and is no longer a going concern. The site is still up, though they have removed the link to the forums (though not the forums themselves) because of postings they considered antagonistic. Here is a link to an article about a sad end to what I thought was a good organization (though I enjoyed the sailing resources, not the online store):

http://archives.postandcourier.com/arch ... 5296.shtml

Clint, according to the rumor-mill that is the WWW, it looks as though you may be stuck with the tiller extension. It appears many people are having trouble with order fullfilment, much less returns. You may be able to dispute the charges with your credit card company.

How about an "ideal chandlery" thread?

Huge, cavernous warehouse, not overly bright, and stuffed to the rafters with gear, old and new. Pricing is reasonable, though certainly not cheap, and the staff are the people you meet at the marinas who are always willing to lend a hand. Inventory is well stocked, so the only compromise you have to make involves how much to buy. It's on the water and accessible by boat, so you don't have to stop your daysail if you shear a pin, burn up an impeller, or lose your best beer coozy. And it caters to sailors, first and foremost, because a powerboater can find most everything he needs at WallyWorld. It's the unofficial yacht club, where you can go for parts, advice, and the company of those rare people who consider boating to involve more than just a fast ride along a beach on a jet ski.