This must be nuts...

[dasein668]

A thought about frozen food (meat) on board:

I normally vacuum seal all meats and freeze them in advance of cruising. Vacuum sealing seems to really help with the life of the foodstuffs, and keeps them from leaking nasty raw juice all over the icebox once they thaw.

However, frozen meats thaw very quickly on board. On the order of 24 hours, even when right next to the block ice.

What if they were in the block ice? They're vacuum sealed, so that should protect the meat. And the increased thermal mass of a block should lengthen their frozen-ness, right? 30 lbs of block ice lasted for over a week on my cruise last summer... So if I were to make my own somewhat smaller block with 2 or 3 meals worth of meat frozen in the middle...

Anyone with me, or am I totally bonkers? (About this topic, I mean.. I know the general answer to that question!)

[Summersdawn]

I think the idea has some merit. For ice on my boat, I usually freeze flats of bottled water. This works great. I have frozen hundreds of bottles of water, and never had one break, it doesn't melt all over the inside of the cooler, and you have ice cold fresh drinking water once it thaws. Pick bottled water in the thinner bottles, not the heavy, stiff bottles.

Anyways, back on topic, I usually surrond my frozen meat with bottles of ice, and I get 2 - 2 1/2 days before my meat thaws. I would think frozen inside a block of ice, you would get as long as it takes to melt the block.

[CharlieJ]

Although we seldom carry foods requiring being kept cold, that sounds like a workable idea. Normally we only keep drinks cold. But you'll have to wait for the block to melt before you can use the food.

I 'm very surprised at the 30 pounds only lasting a week? We freeze a block in our home freezer, in a Rubbermaid dishpan. Weighs about 15 pounds. On a recent trip to Florida we still had some of that block 13 days later. We had had two bags of crushed in the cooler during that time, for drinks. We did carry three frozen meals in the cooler that trip and ate the last one 4 days out.


Our last trip, over the 4th of July, we had over half of the block left 5 days later.


I have a sheet of the quilted insulation- looks just like one of those silver mylar windshield sun screens (grin) that lays over the ice and contents, to slow heat intrusiion when we open the box.

[Tim]

I 'm very surprised at the 30 pounds only lasting a week? We freeze a block in our home freezer, in a Rubbermaid dishpan.

I'm sure that nice clear solid block of ice is far superior to the pressed ice chip blocks that are available commercially. Plus, the larger the single mass of ice, the longer it will last. A single 15 lb. block will last far longer than 3, 5 lb. blocks.

I think I'll size the icebox in my next boat to accommodate home-frozen blocks like you suggest. It'd be easy to design a box around a certain size of tub used for freezing blocks.

[Figment]

We used to do something similar for our "new year's eve on the mountain" trips. It works. Sometimes too well. We learned to wrap the meat very tightly, then loosely, then tightly again.

That loose middle layer makes it much easier to split the block open if/when you need to use the food sooner than expected.

[dasein668]

I 'm very surprised at the 30 pounds only lasting a week? <snip> Our last trip, over the 4th of July, we had over half of the block left 5 days later.

I had over half the ice remaining after 7 days. I couldn't say exactly how long it lasted, as I added 20 more pounds after 7 days.

Ice remaining from three 10lb commercial blocks after 7 days of cruising.

[Figment]

Just like the fridge at home, it's all a matter of how often you open that hatch. I'll bet the ice goes away a bit quicker once heather and gavin join the boat, eh?

"Build the icebox" has worked itself pretty far down the priority list for me. Obviously I don't do cruising like you guys do Cruising. The vast majority of my sailing is daysailing, for which our square igloo does just fine, but even when we go for longer, we pack food into two smaller (4gallon +/-) coolers. Food for days 1 and 2 goes into the big igloo with all the drinks and such. Food for days 3 and 4 goes into one of the smaller coolers.
Food for days 5 and 6 goes into the other small cooler.

Because we don't open that second small cooler until day 5, the contents are still somewhat-frozen.

[CharlieJ]

Oh yes Tim- that pressed block stuff is pretty worthless for longevity. We've found that a bag of crushed lasts longer than that.

Bought a block of that pressed stuff in Intercoastal City last year on our way to Florida. Didn't even last 2 days.

With blocks, the clearer the block is, the better it'll last.

And it's quite true- the more you open the box the quicker the ice goes away. In our box I built a shelf that the ice sits on. It's raised from the bottom far enough for a canned drink to fit under. That way the ice never sits in melt water. The shelf can slide from side to side if needed. I also built two openings- a small one we use often and the larger one over the ice- it seldom gets opened.

But again- I should mention that we try to not carry foods that require cooling. Other than some cheese, or maybe a couple of candy bars there's seldom food in the cooler. Those go on top of the mylar blanket since they don't have to be kept cold- just "not hot"

[Ric in Richmond]

I do like the meat in a cube idea!!!! You could stagger the size and time it to have a different meal every day.

Shouldn't hurt it...isn't that what ice glazed chicken is all about?



On a related topic.

I've been mulling the whole icebox- reuild- reinsulate- (maybe) put in a fridge unit.

What do you like for 40 year old boats?

I'm thinking a layer of foam inside with some glass on it, a thicker lid, and a alber barbour.

Really don't want to rip out cabinetry to insulate from the outside.

The Alberg 35 has a large ice box that seems almost too big.

Recommendations?

Ric

[Tim]

I'm thinking a layer of foam inside with some glass on it, a thicker lid, and a alber barbour.

Really don't want to rip out cabinetry to insulate from the outside.

The Alberg 35 has a large ice box that seems almost too big.

Recommendations?

The first thing you should do is figure out how much space you truly need for the way you use the icebox. There is definitely such a thing as "too big" if you're just not using the space. The larger the empty space, the more cooling it takes.

It sounds as if you have plenty of room to add a couple inches of insulation all the way around. I'd go with 2" minimum if you can afford the space, but even one inch will make a difference.

The foil-faced polyisocyanurate commonly available as a rigid board insulation seems to have the best R value per inch (about 8, I think), compared to the pink or blue styrofoam which is 5 or 6 per inch. I'm sure there are "super products" available with superior insulating qualities, but these probably don't factor in costwise.

Any foam will be a little cushy if you just glass over the top, unless you add a serious thickness of glass. You might consider a veneer of 1/8" or 1/4" plywood first, with the glass over that, to better protect the insulation.

Remember that cold plates or evaporators in onboard refrigeration systems take up quite a bit of icebox room, so be sure to factor in your chosen unit before you start radically downsizing your available space. But if you go with refrigeration, it will pay to have the minimum amount of space possible that needs to be cooled--more efficient. It's always a tradeoff.

There are quite a few options, refer-wise. I personally prefer the 12 volt systems that use an evaporator coil in the icebox, versus the cold plate types. I would rather factor in a large battery bank than be tied to running my engine twice a day for an hour. I always find that obnoxious when I'm next to a cruiser with engine-driven cold plate refrigeration, particularly when said cruiser has been away all day and then has to run their engine for an hour and a half at 10 PM. (Speaking from experience...)

With adequate battery power, there's no need to run the engine to keep the fridge cold, other than the already-existing need to charge the batteries anyway. It keeps life on board nicer, and is way nicer for your cruising neighbors, who will appreciate the silence.

But I have a lot more research to do on refrigeration systems, so this is hardly the final word. Adler Barbour units are generally well thought of and reliable.

I'm looking forward to desiging my new icebox when I get to work on Pixie. She currently has a massive icebox (trashed, so keeping it isn't an option anyway), so there's plenty of room to work with in the galley. I'd like something that could hold lots of ice, as well as space for 12V refrigeration if desired.

[Ric in Richmond]

Sounds like I am on the right track then. Going to cruise her this summer/fall and see what we have to store, then plan on a interior insulation job and a 12 v refer eventually.

We have 4 6 volts in series/parallel so lots of power.

Thanks again for all the great advice!!!

[Tim]

What if they (edit for clarity: the meat, that is) were in the block ice?

Well, for what it's worth, I just saw a news story this morning about some zoo where they froze "treats" inside blocks of ice to feed to the polar bears in the pool.

Does that count?

[dasein668]

Well, for what it's worth, I just saw a news story this morning about some zoo where they froze "treats" inside blocks of ice to feed to the polar bears in the pool.

Does that count?

Shouldn't you be installing windows, or something?

[Tim]

At 5 AM?

[Figment]

In this heat? YEAH at 5am!!
The workday needs to end at 11am, or the quality just slips away with each subsequent bead of sweat. Get crackin'!

[Tim]

I'll try harder to stop slacking off, then!

[dasein668]

Good plan, man. Sheesh, TWO days to install those windows? Some people...