Stormish Type Sails for an Old Race Boat

[Bluenose]

We have had a frustrating weather cycle. High pressure systems with light and variable winds and the beginning of the fall storm track with stronger, but still variable, and gusty winds. Today I decided to go out, it has after all been well over a week since our last sail. The forecast was 10 to 20 but the wind at the boat seemed to be at the high end of the forecast and quite gusty. With these conditions Laura and I decided to play it safe and not row out to the boat. Mostly because if the wind strengthen I was worried that we might not be able to reduce sail effectively enough to get home.

And I am quite tired of this road block, so I thought I would query the collective wisdom and experience of this board for some advice.

Bolero sails with a working jib and a mainsail with two reef points, although I currently only have one setup. When the wind gets into the high teens, and I am guessing on this, Bolero is a joy to sail with one reef and tight lines all around. But as the wind continues to creep up, I get the feeling that I would like to have a bit less working jib before I tuck in the second reef, since the helm is very well balanced with 1 reef and the working jib.

So I am trying to figure out a way to add a storm type jib to Bolero's sail plan. Maybe a storm sail on its own stay, or one with a built in luff wire that attaches to a foredeck fitting. Something so I could deploy it pretty quickly. But I don't have any experience with any of these setups and so I am looking for a bit of help.

If numbers matter to anyone, here they are.



Anyway, I would appreciate any insight or experiences anyone might wish to take the time to share.

I have come to the realization that without a super light air and a heavy air sail plan I won't feel comfortable pushing our distances and specifically crossing the Strait of Juan de Fuca.

Cheers and Thanks,
Bill

[Chris Campbell]

Hi Bill,

I'm not sure how much this varies by boat, but I have always been surprised at how well well balanced boats balance even when you seem to be attempting to unbalance them. That is to say: I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised at how well Bolero behaves with the full working jib and a double reefed main - and you'll probably find that you sail quite nicely with the main dropped altogether and just the working jib, or (as you have listed) vice-versa and just a double reefed main, no jib. In my experience the most important thing is to get rid of the excess sail area - not where it comes from, which is a bit counter-intuitive.

In one of our previous boats (Swallow, Roue R/20) we had a rig similar to yours: fractional, large main with two reef points, working jib or genoa to choose from, bendy mast with adjustable backstay. As I learned the boat I tried different combinations of gearing down, right down to either sailing with just the working jib or just the double reefed main - and they both balanced out quite acceptably. With just the working jib we definitely had no weather helm and tacking was always through more than 100 degrees until we got speed up on the new tack and could head up (we were blown off first thing, then rounded up to our intended course) - but it worked fine, and was super downwind where we just got pulled where we wanted to to. With just the double reefed main we had weather helm back and sailed along nicely as well. Aside from the bucketfuls of harbour water that were constantly being showered over us going upwind (which you really don't want on you here in Halifax) we enjoyed our outings up to about 30-35 knots - a common breeze here in mid-to-late fall.

Weatherbird was similar - in fact since we had a 110% roller-furled jib (and I hate the shape of a partially furled jib, even with a foam luff) we would take in one reef, then two, and actually drop the main completely before we did anything with the jib. That got us comfortably up to about 25 knots. Then we had a problem that I never resolved - we needed a smaller jib at that point. In actual fact the one time I was out in really high winds (~40 knots) we ended up with a double reefed main and a hankerchief of the roller furled jib out. Not pretty, but it was the best we had. I would have been much happier with a triple-reefed main and a storm jib, but there you go.

Anyway - I seem to have successfully talked about myself and my boats at length again - the point I'm trying to make is that I would be thinking of a storm jib, if I were you, but I'd also be rigging and trying out that second reef in the meanwhile - I think you may be surprised at how nicely she goes with it and the full working jib. Also try out sailing with just the jib, and just the double-reefed main - if it's windy enough, I'll bet you have fun! Although getting onto the mooring might be more excitement than is strictly necessary...

Did you finally get your first reef to work as well as you'd wanted, i.e. does it pull the sail nicely flat when reefed? I find that it's even more important with the second reef - you more or less want a board, not a sail, at that point...

Cheers,

Chris

[Case]

Why not just use the second reef in the mainsail more? Have you tried this and was the balance lousy? Did the helm get heavy or did Bolero develop a lee helm?

Remember this much: When its getting more windy, you often don't really want to go out there on the foredeck and change jibs. Easier to put in the second reef in the main.

If you did try the second reef with full jib and it was lousy, please disregard all of my comments.

- Case

[Rachel]

I'm about as far as you can get from a sail expert, but what about a reef in the jib?

I used a reefing headsail when out cruising and really liked it, which is what made me think of it, but it was a different style of boat. So I can also think of a few reasons why it might not be a good idea: Maybe your jib is not built heavily enough; maybe it would compromise the purity of your jib and you'd just rather keep each sail for one job. (I've never sailed a boat that was quite such a nice sailing machine as yours :)


Rachel

[Bluenose]

Thanks Chris, Case & Rachel for jumping in and sharing your experiences on this topic.

And of course the suggestion to go ahead and take in the second reef to see how the boat sails is a good one.

I have sailed Bolero with just her mainsail and I have sailed my old Bluenose with just her jib (after a gooseneck failure). And I have to say that I don't really like sailing a sailboat without having both a jib and a mailsail available. In a pinch I would but I wouldn't enjoy it. I very much like the balance, control and maneuvering ability of a balanced sailplan.

Remember this much: When its getting more windy, you often don't really want to go out there on the foredeck and change jibs. Easier to put in the second reef in the main.

This is exactly why I asked this question. The wind and seas when I usual take in the first reef (winds in the high teens) are no problem. I can move all over the boat, foredeck included. As the conditions increase to the point where it is time for a second sail reduction the foredeck might be getting a bit wet. Which is why I am inclined to have this be the time to do something with the head sail. That would leave me the easy to do second mainsail reef if needed.

I'm about as far as you can get from a sail expert, but what about a reef in the jib?
I used a reefing headsail when out cruising and really liked it, which is what made me think of it, but it was a different style of boat. So I can also think of a few reasons why it might not be a good idea: Maybe your jib is not built heavily enough; maybe it would compromise the purity of your jib and you'd just rather keep each sail for one job. (I've never sailed a boat that was quite such a nice sailing machine as yours :)

So how was this in practice? I have read and reread the Pardey's and Bruce Bingham's description of reefed headsails but I would love some more information on their actual use. Do you remember how big a reef it was?

As far of purity of the sail goes, the real Shields alreadly laugh and point because of the two reefs points in the miansail.

Did you finally get your first reef to work as well as you'd wanted, i.e. does it pull the sail nicely flat when reefed? I find that it's even more important with the second reef - you more or less want a board, not a sail, at that point...

Yes I think I did. And I am quite happy with the sail shape when reefed.

Thanks,
Bill

[Rachel]

Bill,

This was on a Westsail 32 cutter (how different from Bolero could one get?). The staysail had one row of reef points, and boy, was that handy. It set really well, too. It was actually an older sail, and getting on towards replacement time, but it had such a nice shape that we couldn't bear to replace it. It hung in there just fine, as it turns out, and was a real workhorse. To go with it we had a bunch of jibs, but there were plenty of times we sailed with just the reefed main and staysail (reefed or not).

I'm going to send an e-mail to my friend who still owns the boat, and I'll ask him if he can measure the reef point and/or send along a few photos.

Rachel

[Bluenose]

Rachel,

Thanks for the info and please forgive the continuing barrage of questions.

Would you be willing to talk me through the steps you used tucking in a jib reef? Was there a preferred point of sail for reefing? Not that speed is all important, but about how long would it take to reef the jib. Was it easy to do single handed?

Thanks again,
Bill

[Figment]

Given your general use of the boat, I don't imagine that you'll ever spend extended lengths of time in storm conditions.
If wind is ever briefly strong enough that you don't want ANY sail up, it's anchor time anyway. Ride it out.

How heavy is the construction of the current jib? Will it blow to pieces in 40-50kts?

I don't think I've ever felt overpowered by a too-large jib. Genoas are another story, but a simple jib should never be a problem when not sailing closehauled. When closehauled, it's a matter of fine trim and finesse to get it to feather. Ease the sheet an inch or two, let the forward third of the sail just kinda hang there for the ride, let the back two thirds (really only about half of the actual area) balance the boat and do its thing with the main, which is probably eased out a bit as well.

[Bluenose]

Given your general use of the boat, I don't imagine that you'll ever spend extended lengths of time in storm conditions.
If wind is ever briefly strong enough that you don't want ANY sail up, it's anchor time anyway. Ride it out.

How heavy is the construction of the current jib? Will it blow to pieces in 40-50kts?

Figment,

Thanks for jumping in. These are all very good points. And I have a completely safe anchorage for 40-50 kts. It's call our boat shed (since this type of condition is quite rare in the summer).

One of the reasons I titled this post Stormish Sails is that I am not looking for true storm sails or the ability to ride out a 40 to 50 kt blow. I am looking for a way to sail home, or to a safe anchorage, in say 25 to 35 kts.

The beauty of Bolero, Shields Class, is that she carries a nice amount of sail area. I just need a lot of options to dump it at wind ranges that seem light for other types of boats. Bolero with two reefs tucked in and her working jib has a similar amount of sail area, with respect to displacement, as a Triton might with full main and an overlapping headsail.

So I am just trying to come up with a series of working, balanced sail plan reductions to extend my maximum sailing wind range.

[Rachel]

So how was this [reefing headsail] in practice? I have read and reread the Pardey's and Bruce Bingham's description of reefed headsails but I would love some more information on their actual use. Do you remember how big a reef it was?

I had to check with my cruising bud who owns the boat. That's because I was normally at the helm while we were reefing that sail, so he was the one up there actually interacting with it. Here's what he had to say:

I don't have pics or measurements, and the sail would be hard to shake out because of the tarp that's currently over most of the boat. However, from what I remember:

*There's a separate tack and clew for the reef, plus reefing ties.
*The tack was about 2', maybe, above the normal one?? But the reefing clew was way up, like 4' or more. So the luff didn't get a lot shorter, but the leech did.
*I would slack the halyard, move the pennant snapshackle from the main tack to the reefing tack, re-tie the halyards to the reefing clew, and then try to make a neat job of rolling it with the reef ties.
That's about it.

I'm sorry that's not more comprehensive, but now that my memory is jogged I guess we didn't really reef it that often, so this information is not borne of a hundred uses. So take it as a recommendation for something to consider, but not a mega-experienced "this is the solution" one. I suppose it's only natural that the person who was up on the foredeck in staysail reefing conditions remembers it better :^)

Actually, in most of our cruising the winds weren't that strong, of if they were, they were from abaft the beam.

One last note: we didn't design the sail - it came with the boat already with a reef point.

Rachel

[Figment]

The whole reefing-jib thing sounds like a fine idea, but I'd hate to try rolling/gathering/tying the reefed portion of the sail on the foredeck of a Shields.

What I would prefer is...

A 2/3 hoist jib with a high-cut clew and hollow luff and foot.
Maximum of 5 hanks, possibly with its own spectra stay in the luff. The hanks would be the Wichard snap-hook type, minimum of fussing to secure the sail to the forestay with one hand.
The tack would have a pendant of 18-24" spectra with its own snapshackle to allow the everyday jib to remain hanked on (in a heap on the deck) with the storm jib flying above.

Blow halyard.
Bring storm jib forward and secure the tack pendant.
Douse the everyday jib to the deck if it isn't there already.
Hank the storm jib onto the stay.
Transfer the halyard.
Bungee or otherwise tame the everyday jib.
Transfer sheets.

[Rachel]

I hear what you're saying, Figment. I was just this morning looking at a photo of the foredeck of Bolero; it might not be the most comfortable place to be tying in a reef.

I threw it out for a suggestion, but it might be more suitable for a different style of boat.

I'll now vote for Figment's idea :)

Rachel

[Bluenose]

Thanks everyone, these are exactly the types of responses I was hoping for. Both the dedicated high cut jib and the reefed working jib really have my mind thinking and figuring. I need to do a fair bit of pondering before I comment in any more detail (a new concept that I am trying out).

I do have one question for Figment. On what point,or points, of sail do you envision this sail change?

Bill

ps.. I haven't been on a lot of boats, but I think Bolero's foredeck is a grand place to work. No cabin or hatches to step on and over. Although maybe a tiny bit narrow :).

[Rachel]

What I'm truly envious of is a mast that goes right down to deck level. Just imagine, being able to work at the mast without being "up on the roof"! The Westsail I cruised on had great bulwarks and nice lifelines, but fat lot of good it did you while you were standing on the cabin top at the mast base.

I would rather duck down in the forward part of the boat (maybe with a scuttle forward in the V-berth, if appropriate) than have the mast sitting up on the cabin top, but unfortunately basically none of the "plastic classic" fiberglass boatbuilders agreed with me (and they were probably right, considering the market). And a raised deck doesn't count!

That's one thing that always appeals to me about the Hess BCC and the Ingrid 38, too.

Rachel

[Bluenose]

What I'm truly envious of is a mast that goes right down to deck level. Just imagine, being able to work at the mast without being "up on the roof"! The Westsail I cruised on had great bulwarks and nice lifelines, but fat lot of good it did you while you were standing on the cabin top at the mast base.

I would rather duck down in the forward part of the boat (maybe with a scuttle forward in the V-berth, if appropriate) than have the mast sitting up on the cabin top, but unfortunately basically none of the "plastic classic" fiberglass boatbuilders agreed with me (and they were probably right, considering the market). And a raised deck doesn't count!

That's one thing that always appeals to me about the Hess BCC and the Ingrid 38, too.

Rachel

Rachel,

I completely agree. There was a moment, somewhat brief, where I was considering having a roundish cabin top that went forward of the mast. Common sense, and probably nudging from He Who Shall Not be Named (yep, I am rereading the HP books) squash that and the design became what it is today.

And thank goodness it did. I spent 5 hours helping a friend bring his new boat home and by the end of the trip I was ready for lines lead aft and roller furling. The foredeck was quite small to work on and standing at the mast on a curved cabin top just wasn't much fun at all.

Funny you mentioned life lines as we occasionally get a raised eyebrow or a comment about sailing without them. But I feel much more comfortable moving about on Bolero than have on other, more conventional boats.

Bill

[Figment]

What point of sail?

I guess you could call it a close reach, but I usually heave-to before making a sail change.
If you have someone on the helm, great, have them keep the very-eased main just full, more to steady the boat and maintain steerage than anything else.

Not closehauled. Too wet.
Not on a reach, the everyday jib will dowse overboard when the halyard is blown.
On a run, I can't imagine being overpowered by the everyday jib in the first place.