Small Diesels and the Boat Show

[JetStream]

Note: The first four posts below were moved from another forum, as the information within deserved its own thread. The original thread that started this discussion can be found here: http://www.triton381.com/forum/viewtopi ... =2752#2752

Tim,
You can always stay here next year. I walk two blocks and catch the free Conanicut Marine bus to the show and don't have to worry about parking. Then at night you can critique Jet Stream. Peggy Hall (the famous "head" mistress) stayed here last year and had a lot of fun. I spent three days at the show just gawking. It is always a lot of fun. One helpful thing I learned was that I definitely don't want to have a Westerbeke diesel in any boat we buy. Their latest diesel is an Isuzu and looks to be a poor marinization. Take a look at their water pump bracket and how you change impellors. Yanmar, on the other hand, continues to impress.

[Tim]

Bruce,

Thanks for the offer--sounds like a great plan! (Though of course it's a year away...)

I love my Yanmar. While I say this often to appease the diesel gods, I also truly mean it. Terrific engine.

[Figment]

Now that you mention it... Gawking around at this year's show brought me to the same conclusion regarding the maintenance of small diesels!

Looking at Vetus and Phasor (same engine different paint, no?) in addition to Westerbeke and comparing to the Yanmar, I was fairly well blown away by the differences in serviceability. Some of these engineers have gone to great effort to make the engines as compact as possible, but I just don't see how this compaction helps you if you need 12" clearance on each side of the engine just for basic maintenance. In theory, Beta is on the right track with their effort to get all basic maintenance items to the front of the engine, but my GOD have you seen the hoops they had to jump through to make that happen?!!? It's amusing to think that such excessive complexity is engaged in support of an ideal of simplicity!

The Phasor salesman probably figured he had a live one on the hook when he saw me closely inspecting a 3cyl and popped the "can I answer any questions?" line. I doubt he was expecting my response: "Yeah, how do you to get at that second starter bolt without dismounting the manifold?".

Hey, when the rain is coming down in sheets in a 25knot breeze, you find your entertainment where you can!

[Tim]

That said, despite my pleasure with the overall performance and construction of my Yanmar 2GM20F, I have to say that the water pump placement is poor: the face plate faces aft, and the only true way to service it is to remove the pump, even when I replaced the original face plate--which was secured with 6 or 8 minute screws (which, tangentially, have absolutely no place on any marine engine, ever)--with the easy-to-use Speedseal. This location and placement is definitely a victim of "compact" design, and it would have been better to have an accessible water pump.

However, this is relatively minor, as it's only two bolts to remove the pump, and with proper impeller maintenance and inspection, there's little reason to think there will be a need for immediate maintenance. But given my druthers, I'd sure prefer a forward-facing water pump. I'm fortunate (no, actually, I carefully planned it this way) to have a large-enough engine room, so I can actually get to everything I need. Some tasks are still overly difficult.

My favorite is changing the oil filter. Why, oh why, can't they sacrifice 2" of space and mount oil filters vertically (up-facing), so that you have the slightest prayer of unscrewing it without spilling oil all over the place? Horizontally-mounted filters are the devil's work. I find this more irritating than the minor inconvenience of the water pump on my engine.

Problem is, the big boat manufacturers--you know the ones--have a heavy hand in dictating how these diesel engines are designed, as the engine manufacturers understandably want to sell their engines to this market. They want more room inside the boat--you know, to allow room for a bigger entertainment center or microwave oven--and thus relegate the poor engine to ever-decreasing spaces tucked back in the depths of the inaccessible bilge.

When consumer-driven ignorance drives bad design, it's a shame for everyone. Sadly, this is how most products seem to be built these days.

[dasein668]

I agree with Tim's comments RE: the placement of the pump and oil filter. I would add to that list the oil dipstick. It is placed?by necessity, I know?low on the side of the engine and with the usual space reserved for engines in small boats it is dreadfully difficult to check the oil level. An engine should, optimally, be designed so that at least the most basic and routine tasks are easy to accomplish.

Why can't all engine rooms look like this anyway?:









Perhaps the only reason to own a 156 foot sailboat... hehe

[Tim]

And even on that boat, it's likely that the mechanical spaces could have benefitted from additional room. There's always a squeeze somewhere! Now, having that engine room (Scheherazade) on our Tritons would make for a roomy installation indeed! Imagine our tiny 2-bangers in the middle of that space. Ahh...

Part of your dipstick-access problem with the Yanmar is related to the size and shape of the engine room, as much as engine design. A slight expansion of the engine room (as on Glissando) makes a marked difference in the side-dipstick access. On some boats, access is better from the sides than from the front of the engine room. Too bad we can't have custom-designed engines, each optimized for the space in which it is to be installed.

[dasein668]

Yes, well, as you know the plan is to improve the access to that engine soon!

Like, in a week! Ugh!

[David]

A few points on having repowered my Bristol 29 with a Yanmar 14 years ago. While mine is a 3GM30F, the layout of the engine and many parts are shared with the 2GM20F. I am still on the original raw water impeller--I keep inspecting it and waiting for it to fail and it just keeps on pumping--and the original raw water pump belt. But I agree that the position of the pump and the forced necessity of removing it to change the impeller is a poor design.

One thing to keep in mind--less for you folks who haul in the winter months than for us in the south--keep an eye on the heat riser. It should be religiously changed every 5 years. At about 150.00 that's cheap insurance. When i waited too long to change mine and the engine began losing power, belching black smoke and overheating, I first considered the problem to be a clogged heat exchanger. After pricing a new one (around 1500.00) I pulled the heat exchanger out. Wow@! It was suddenly clear why it cost so much: solid bronze, and spotlessly clean by the way. They are great engines and I wouldn't consider anything else.

David

[Tim]

keep an eye on the heat riser...

Oops...I thought you said Heat Miser! hehe

Seriously, though: good advice on the riser replacement.