New-to-me B29

[christopher]

I started awhile ago talking about some leaking into the head on my B29, but the oppressive cold and snow here in Wisconsin have kept me from making a worthwhile trip up to see her since I bought her a couple months back.

I thought I'd post a couple pics to introduce myself and more importantly my boat...

These shots were taken on my first visit to the boat before I purchased. She's a 1970 Bristol 29 named "Winsum Wind" which I plan to change after next season.













A few more months and I should have some pics of her doing what she's supposed to do rather than sitting in a parking lot...

[tomwatt]

Nice! With a little work and some time, you'll be all set! Congratulations on a fine looking Bristol!

[Hulukupu]

Those are very nice toe-rails in the first picture. Were those standard on the 29, or an add on?

[christopher]

Yeah I was surprised to find those as well. I thought the boat was originally equipped with teak toe rails...

It wouldn't surprise me if they were added by the owner before the PO. The PO only had the boat for 1 season. Main is new, two of the other sails are new... New Lewmar winches. With all that was included and the condition of the boat, I got it for a song.

[Hulukupu]

I'm happy for you. Enjoy it and send more pictures!

[sscoll]

Lovely boat, congratulations. Where do you keep it? What's with the megaphone at the stern aimed at the cockpit?
I like the way its laid out inside.
Steve

[christopher]

Lovely boat, congratulations. Where do you keep it? What's with the megaphone at the stern aimed at the cockpit?
I like the way its laid out inside.
Steve

Thanks!

She's being stored about an hour north of where I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. She'll be launched on Lake Michigan this spring and sailed home, if it EVER warms up!

No idea about the megaphone... No idea why it's aimed at the cockpit.. One of many mysteries :)

The layout actually gave me pause in buying the boat.. I don't like dinettes in theory, but I've never sailed a boat with one and I'll probably grow to like it just fine. The important things for me were standing headroom, spacious head, and a quarterberth which I love for sleeping while underway.

Next winter I plan to rent a heated storage facility somewhere local and do some restoring, replacing, and refitting.

[Tim]

No idea about the megaphone... No idea why it's aimed at the cockpit.. One of many mysteries :)

Clearly it's to keep recalcitrant crew in line and on their toes, particularly during anchoring or docking operations in a tight harbor. ;<)

[MikeD]

Interesting setup for the mast step too. Nice way to keep things dry and a handy attachment point for the vang.

Also, that seems like a huge rudder!

[Rachel]

Clearly it's to keep recalcitrant crew in line and on their toes, particularly during anchoring or docking operations in a tight harbor.

I was thinking along those lines, too. The Captain could claim "No yelling on my boat" (because I just have to turn up the speaker volume, as you will find out shortly.... :cackle:)

Thanks for the photos, Christopher - can't wait to see more! I bet you're going nuts waiting for things to warm up this year.

Rachel

[Hulukupu]

I wonder if the loudspeaker on the stern is some sort of horn alarm mounted for storage to deter a would-be thief? It doesn't look like you'd want to sail with it.

[christopher]

Ha!

I'd thought of that... I'd be like the skipper up in the tower yelling down to the guys on deck in Most Dangerous Catch :)

Lots of oddities on the boat. There's a Statpower battery charger mounted in the head with the remote unit right next to it -- The PO was not confident that the wiring for the battery switch is right... so I'm guessing that the charger is probably not ideally wired either. There are wires running everywhere in the cabin, sloppily, and the engine compartment wiring is scary..

I think the angle of the photo makes the rudder look bigger... it seems pretty proportional... The boom is pretty long on this boat.. I've heard these boats have a good amount of weather helm, but I've never sailed her so who knows. Hopefully the rudder isn't too big as that could make for a tough fight on the tiller in a breeze.

The winter is driving me insane. I'm worried about the masthead leak into the head with all this cold, but there isn't much i can do about it short of having the mast unstepped midwinter. When I get a day above 25 degrees I want to go up there and get a good inventory of everything that makes her float and go. I'll be taking pictures and measuring everything. New cushions are a priority as the wife wants it looking and smelling nice inside and making her love the boat is my #1 priority. If we ever get weekend with some reasonable temps I'll have lots more pics.

[Figment]

Interesting setup for the mast step too. Nice way to keep things dry and a handy attachment point for the vang.

I disagree. Stretching the vang attachment aft means that it will flatten the sail more as the boom swings out. Just like the mainsheet. (so why have a vang?)

Particularly odd since I can't think of why it wouldnt just go to the mast in the first place.

[MikeD]

Good point - I was just thinking of the accessibility from the cockpit...

[LazyGuy]

I had the same thought as Fig. Could be a real issue on a crash jibe. One more thing to think about when trying to dump main.

[christopher]

Is that enclosure at the mast step a stock item? I haven't seen anything like this on other boats, but have assumed it was built that way from the factory...

Since we're on the topic of this particular vang... The broker and owner said it was roller reefing. I suppose this means I have to detach the vang from the boom to reef? I've done roller reefing before on boats but they've never had a vang along with that setup. Most vanged booms I've worked with have had slab reef setups... I didn't get that close of a look at the gooseneck area last time I was at the boat.

[Tim]

I don't know why anyone would ever use roller reefing today. It was a bad idea that worked poorly even back in the day when it was in vogue and the systems were new.

Convert to slab reefing and be happy!

[christopher]

What is involved in such a conversion with respect to hardware and refit?

[Robert The Gray]

The main reefing lines and the main halyard should be close to each other. It looks like your halyards are led aft at the moment, so for ease the reefing lines should be lead aft as well. That means two more rope clutches and another line organizer. With that big main you will need a winch to get good tension as well. You could also switch everything to the mast.

I would look at your mainsail and see if there are any reefing grommets at the tack and the clew. If I remember one of the supposed advantages of roller reefing was you could reef as much or as little as you want, there may not be the re-enforced patches and large grommets. Tim has a section on his system on Glissando. He did a comprehensive upgrade of the whole mainsail system: full batten sail, strongtrak luff, ridged vang, fixed gooseneck, and slab reefing. So very very sweet and nice.

here is a link http://www.triton381.com/projects/small ... ffairleads

With my halyards lead aft, I put the main halyard and the line to the 1st reef tack and clew, all on one side to the same clutch and winch. I had a fixed goose neck. I got to where I could reef in 5 minutes when single handing. The process went: halyard down, tack winched in, clew winched in, tack in again to snug, clew in again until foot of sail was very flat, then just a bit up on the halyard, sheet her in, when she had speed furl all lines down. On your size and style of boat a winch or some mechanical advantage is going to be necessary to get the proper tension on the sail. I feel in reefing the proper tension on the sail is paramount, a baggy smaller sail is is not what you want. For me the money I spent on those clutches was worth every penny. Reefing should be very easy.

r

[Tim]

My setup has changed a bit since the information posted at the link above. I'll look for some better pictures, but for now I posted a couple that I could easily find.

It's not the end-all system, but it works the way I like it to work: easily, effectively, and securly. There have been other discussions on reefing setups on this forum in the past, with some different ideas. See what you think you like best.

For reefing flexibility, I installed a 4' T-track on each side of the boom, in the general area of the leech reef points. These tracks allow me to move the line location for and aft to fine-tune--I like the reefing lines to pull the leech down and slightly aft in order to keep the reefed foot tight and not baggy. I installed track eyes on one side to secure the lines, and sliding cheek blocks on the other, through which the reefing lines run on their way forward. See below.

My reefing lines are external and run forward along the boom through two pair of bullseye fairleads up to a double sheet stopper and winch at the mast end of the boom, adjacent to where my main halyard is (the halyard is on the mast). The Garhauer sheet stopper I have works well, but it's ugly as sin and I hate it. I'd get a Spinlock or something the next time. The winch may not be necessary, but makes the system more versatile and adaptable to actual conditions frequently encountered while reefing. I use it to cinch up the reef every time.

The gooseneck features a pair of standard reefing hooks for the luff reef points. These are available aftermarket also and are normally easy to add.

If your main is old and doesn't have reef points because it was designed for the roller reefing system, it's probably not worth converting. But when you get a new sail, have reef points installed.

[christopher]

Finally got up to the boat today. It was a sweltering 29 degrees outside. I layered up and stayed plenty warm though. I wasn't able to do a lot of the things I wanted to do because the cover was completely weighted down in snow. I did get a close look at the through hull fittings.

I'm not very familiar with sailboat hardware so this is all foreign to me. Are these all operated electronically?


I also read in a post from Dave I believe that the chainplate bolts are undersized on the B29. I have Casey's repair manual and changing out and rebedding chainplates seems a reasonably simple task. One in particular looks stressed -- does this look severe? I have no basis for comparison. In the pic you can see that it has been pulled up some and the bolts are bent upward.


Here is an interesting mystery I found. This piece of wood is affixed to the hull inside under the v-berth. I didn't get the chance to line up this piece with a through hull for certain, but I think there is one on the exterior in this general area...


Hope this one is closed... No hose in sight


This is the reverse side of one of the chainplates. Would it be bad to make a metal backing plate for this?


My battery switch - yet I have 3 batteries


The A4


This is going to be fun


This is the shorepower unit. Stupid question: Does shorepower come in as 12 Volts? I see standard electrical sockets added by some PO which I'm guessing would be 120...


Aftermarket winch install from below


The galley after I emptied all the crap out and cleaned off the mold - The fog upper left is my breath... brrrrr


The rig


Masthead -- Does that cap fitting look original?




Backstay tension mechanism


Sorry for the long post... you asked for pictures though!

Since this is my first boat all of this is pretty new to me. I can't say whether the chainplates are awful or just typical for 1970. Overall the boat seems really sound. The supports that the chainplates are affixed to don't show any signs of problems and feel very firm. Hopefully I didn't get myself in over my head... but I think she's a pretty solid ole girl.

[Tim]

I'm not very familiar with sailboat hardware so this is all foreign to me. Are these all operated electronically?

No, that's a bonding wire. That sort of seacock requires a wrench to turn. You can buy specific spanner handles that fit that seacock from Spartan Marine, or use a wrench, but I think a means to close the seacock should always be close at hand to each fitting.

Those are good seacocks that can be disassembled and lubricated (and should be, on a routine basis).

One in particular looks stressed -- does this look severe? I have no basis for comparison. In the pic you can see that it has been pulled up some and the bolts are bent upward.

That looks like a typical 1970s installation. I don't know if it's been pulled up or not, but I do know that it's common for the bolts to end up at slight angles in their original installation, since one frequently finds that the holes in the chainplate and in the bulkhead don't align perfectly.

Everything in that photo scream 1970's production boat. There's nothing immediately or overtly alarming, but of course the installation leaves something to be desired.

That said, it would be prudent for you to carefully inspect all your chainplates and their underpinnings as a matter of course.

Hope this one is closed... No hose in sight

Yes, that is closed. All 90° valves are built so that the handle is in line with the valve/hose when it's open, and perpendicular when closed. You can always tell from a glance. (The one in your first photo is open.)

This is the reverse side of one of the chainplates. Would it be bad to make a metal backing plate for this?

No, it wouldn't be bad. But it may not be necessary either, since the load on chainplate bolts like those is in sheer (that is, perpendicular to the length of the bolt), not tension (in line with the direction of the bolt). So a backing plate wouldn't strengthen the chainplate, but a larger washer or backing plate would help prevent the bolt head from compressing the plywood bulkhead when tightened.

My battery switch - yet I have 3 batteries

Yes, but you only have two battery banks. Most likely, you have a single starting battery for the e ngine (bank #1), and two batteries connected in parallel for your house service (bank #1). "Both" means "both banks".

Stupid question: Does shorepower come in as 12 Volts? I see standard electrical sockets added by some PO which I'm guessing would be 120...

Shorepower is 110-120 volts in the US. That's a battery isolator in the photo. Your shore power system should include an on-deck receptacle for the cord, and hopefully a main AC circuit breaker with reverse polarity indicator at a minimum.

[Tim]

Actually, looking again at the photo of your chainplate, it does appear that it might have pulled slightly upward, given the paint line visible beneath.

Over-tensioning of rigging is an all-too common problem, and may well have led to that. But the fact that the piece has pulled slightly up suggests that there may be a structural problem within the bulkhead to which it is attached (which is also all too common).

Removal and inspection time! Boats are fun. How do you like it so far? ;<)

[christopher]

Tim -
Thanks for the great info! I'll have to see if there's a wrench on the boat for those seacocks.

Do you think that block of wood is there to repair hull damage? I see nothing on the exterior of the hull to indicate there was ever damage or a holing. But the interior side of the hull appears to have the paint sanded away and some sort of compound to plug something. Hopefully it's just a through hull seal and not an accidental through hull (holing) seal. :)

Oh yeah this is all gonna be fun!

[christopher]

Actually, looking again at the photo of your chainplate, it does appear that it might have pulled slightly upward, given the paint line visible beneath.
Removal and inspection time! Boats are fun. How do you like it so far? ;<)

Tim -- I have to sail her about 80 miles home come spring. The tentative plan is to do some of the bigger projects next winter. I am planning on renting indoor heated storage somewhere and doing any work that can't be done on the water then. Do you think the rig needs to come down and chainplates inspected immediately or can it wait a season? I know that's a tough question to answer as you've only seen a pic.. I get the feeling as though the chainplates have been that way for some time given the look of the paint and such.

thoughts?

[Rachel]

Hi Chris,

Fun to see more photos - you must have enjoyed being able to bond a bit with your new boat. Good times!

Like Tim said, those are nice, old-fashioned, bronze "cone" type seacocks. That big barrel has a slightly tapered "cone" inside it, and there is a hole that runs through the cone. When you turn the cone 90º the hole lines up with the hole in the boat and the hose, and you have flow. Turn it another 90º and the hole in the cone is not lined up with the hose or the hole in the boat, so you have no flow. Where the cone part comes in is that the barrel is slightly tapered, so that it makes a tight seal. You can adjust (tighten or loosen) that with the nut on the side opposite the handle. From time to time you take them apart to clean and lubricate them, and you can "lap" them if needed. They are nice units. Not as "maintenance free" as modern ball-style ones, but eminently serviceable and pleasingly husky :)

Spartan still makes that style of seacock, and they have diagrams that will help you get the picture, along with instructions for how to maintain them. You can find them here:

http://www.spartanmarine.com/source/27.htm



Also, Nigel Calder's Mechanical and Electrical Manual has drawings (that book is a must have, in my opinion).

They used to be made by more companies (such as Wilcox Crittenden), but I don't think anyone but Spartan makes them anymore (that I know of). (Oh, wait, Blake's makes some, but they are kind of sideways to the type you have).

On the chainplates: That's one of those tough calls. On the one hand, that one does look a little bit scary, and the bulkhead may have some moisture in it (or it may just be crushed a bit from over tightening of the rigging, especially as the boat was raced). So it might not be totally safe. On the other hand, if you start getting into rigging projects 70 miles from home, it could turn into a real saga, and not the fun kind.

Also, everyone's standards for boats are different. Ranging from "Well it's held up fine all these years" to "I wouldn't launch with that chainplate if you paid me." You have to find where you sit on that spectrum. If it were me, I would poke around a little bit, to make sure the bulkhead isn't seriously compromised there, and then think about stepping the mast and motoring home. At least then you are on your own turf. On the other hand, now the mast is down.... Decisions, decisions.... A lot to me would depend on what the facilities are like there vs. at home; whether you would be able to get the mast home un-stepped, etc.

Try to look at the rigging as a system, and make sure you have no weak links. If the spreader bases are cast aluminum (looks like they may be), give them a close look-over, for example.

As to whether I would sail a season.... hard to say. I would want to see it in person and know more. I would probably lean towards fixing it sooner rather than later, but then others are out sailing while I am fixing, so you may not want to listen to me!

That plywood "patch" is interesting. I would guess either a filled in through hull hole or maybe someone was going to mount something? Now you can play detective :)

Thanks for taking the time to post the photos - it's fun to see them.

Rachel

PS: Looking back at the photos, I see you have a gate valve on the engine intake, and maybe some unconventional hoses on the cockpit drains seacocks. Now if you go to make everything perfect you'll never get off the hard, but I would want to be sure that all of the seacocks are closeable, and that you know just how to reach them all, they all have handles (as Tim said), etc. Because I'm betting some of the hoses and clamps are things you will want to replace, and at least if you can close the seacocks you can recover from a problem with one of the hoses.

If you are going to be motoring, maybe take an extra good look at the hose on that intake, since you won't be wanting to close it underway. Gate valves are not ideal, but my former A-30 had them and when I took them out I found them in decent shape because even though they were brass they'd been in fresh water.

Likewise it's good if the cockpit drain hoses/seacocks are in good shape, because you need to leave those open at dock or anchor. Basically, try to make sure that you can keep the "sea"water out, and pay close attention to things that can possibly let it in.

[Tim]

Which stay does the chainplate pictured above belong to?

[christopher]

Which stay does the chainplate pictured above belong to?

It is the foremost chainplate on the port side... which I believe is an inner shroud... but am not that familiar with rigs in general yet. Appears that will be changing :)

[christopher]

This is a shot of the the middle chainplate... attached to the outer shroud I think???



this one looks better.

Upon my inspection I tapped on all the knees and bulkheads with my resin hammer and didn't notice anything indicating hollowness or softness. I railed on the knees a bit to see if they were securely affixed and they all seemed to be solid. Nothing concerned me about their strength upon my messing around with the areas...

Rachel -- Not positive if the boat was raced... but spinnaker gear was added. The Previous to the PO seemed to be a cruiser given the upgrades he made. The PO made no changes to the boat and just day sailed it occasionally. Thanks for the info on the seacocks! I will definitely read up more on these and see how they are working the next time I'm up to the boat. It was not as productive a trip as I wanted given the huge amount of snow and slush weighing down the cover preventing me from getting anywhere on the deck.

[Tim]

I'm not suggesting it makes it OK, but the forward lower (or aft lower) shroud is less important than the upper shrouds in the overall rigging scheme. I doubt the chainplate you show is about to suddenly fail, but all the signs are there that point to a need to evaluate carefully the rigging attachment points.

A completely sound bulkhead, hammer-sounded through fiberglass tabbing like you have, ought to sound quite crisp and bright when you hit it, with no sense of dullness. If you hear dullness, or a dead-sounding thunk, it is typically indicative of moisture within.

[christopher]

Tim -

Thanks for the continued great advice. With regard to the trip home, I'll probably just motor in any wind over 12-15 knots. I read in my Casey sailboat repair manual that you can replace the chainplates with the rig up by doing one at a time. I could do this on the mooring pin once she's home I think. The steps I've read would be to get some new chainplates, detach the shroud of the one to be replaced, inspect the knee/bulkhead after removal, epoxy fill, let cure, redrill, reinstall, rebed, let cure, reattach shroud and move on to the next. Sounds simple!!!! hahaha

With respect to the cooling circuit - which side is water in and which is water outlet? What object is the gate valve?



Jeez I feel like I've stepped into a whole new world. There's a whole other side of sailing that I never knew about :)

[Figment]

I'll jump in here so Tim doesn't need to soil himself on the A4.

The gate valve is the one in the bottom left of the photo with the blue enameled wheel. This is your cooling water inlet.
This hose leads aft to the engine's water pump (dismount this to change the impeller. really.)
The water then courses through the engine block , exits via the thermostat***, and crosses over to cool the intake/exhaust manifold via that short length of red hose atop the front of the engine.
The water then exits the manifold via that black hose top aft and cools the exhaust. This is your cooling water outlet.


*** I'm not so familiar with thermostat-equipped A4s. I would think that there MUST be some sort of a bypass to the exhaust to prevent it from superheating before the engine warms and allows water to pass. If there is a hose around the aft end of the engine leading from the water pump to the exhaust line, that's what this is. Or it may not be there, in which case I'm just overthinking. I do that.

[ddsailor25]

Great yacht you have there! We have a 1968 B29 hull number #85 and sail out of Gloucester Ma. I really like your toe rails! Ours are the original teak and we developed a leak last summer. Realistically they need to be replaced due to years of sanding and refinishing. When we bought our B29 the engine compartment looks like yours as well. Ended up ripping everything out and going diesel. Our B29 does have some weather helm and the wife does stuggle with it a little bit when the wind start blowing, but overall it's very managable. I even find that I like it because you can find that natual balance of the boat and where she wants to be. The piece of wood is concerning in your pictures. It could of been an old speed log that they covered over. If it is I would pull that off and repair it propperly if that's the case. I also noticed you have a newer mast with internal halyards. Overall it looks like you got a decent boat there. Ours looked much worse then yours and we got ours for a song too, but they clean up nice and are gets yachts.

[sscoll]

I'm getting the feeling that your A4 is a new critter to you. Couple of points to carry around. After you open the gate valve and start the motor check to see that cooling water is coming out the exhaust pipe. I see the raw water inlet (gate valve) has double hose clamps. Double hose clamping every hose on board should be done before you leave the dock. Check 'em periodically.

Don't run your alternator selector switch in the Both position unless you are certain that both battery banks are composed of similar batteries of the same age and condition. If you do run it in Both check the alternator for getting hot to the touch, a sign that it doesn't like what its doing, warm is okay, but not hot. Don't change the selector switch with the motor running.

I don't see anything out of order in your engine compartment that a modicum of tidying up won't cure. Its a really nicely accessible engine. A4's are long lived work horses. Yours looks like its been cared for.

You're going to have a terrific time. All you have to do is wait three and a half more months!

That piece of plywood stuck to the inside of the hull is perplexing. Did you figure out what it covers?

Steve

[Tim]

Just as a point of surpreme pickiness:

Double-clamping is fine sometimes, as long as the pipe nipple/barb to which the hose is clamped is long enough to properly support two clamps. Most are not: barbed fittings have gotten shorter over the years, and most newer ones aren't long enough for two clamps. (Some older ones are up to an inch longer.) Each clamp requires a certain amount of space around it, and between the end of the hose and the fitting (and between the end of the barb and the end of the last clamp) in order to function properly without damaging the hose. Sometimes (frequently, even), the second clamp can do more harm than good if it's not bearing entirely on the hose barb. Double-clamping is a favorite fable of the general boating public thanks to marine surveyors of days past and the boating press, but the reality is that the second clamp often doesn't do anything but waste clamps and cause premature hose failures.

Even when there's room for two clamps to be secured, I really question the need or even desire. You're doubling your cost for little gain: if one clamp is going to fail over time, why wouldn't the second one also? It's in the same exact environment as the first. When the time comes for clamp replacement, you'd still have to replace both clamps, doubling the cost. Does the second clamp really provide extra security or a backup in case the first one fails? I say probably not, and say that maintaining your hoses and clamps with frequent inspection and timely replacement is far more important. Double-clamping is no license for sanctioned neglect. I'd rather just put a brand-new clamp on every 5-10 years and know that it was sound and secure. If I felt two clamps on each connection made things better, I'd do it regardless of the cost, but I don't feel this way, and feel that it often leads to more harm than good. Food for thought, at least.

Most boat sinkings occur at dock or mooring through some point of neglect, usually bad hoses or leaking stuffing boxes--not from catastrophic failures or boats falling apart in ocean crossings--so this ought to underscore the importance of keeping your hoses and clamps in excellent condition. Hose is cheap in the scheme of things. So are clamps, but that doesn't mean that twice as many is twice as good, or even as good as a well-installed single.

Note that double-clamping is not required or suggested by any voluntary regulations or enforceable laws except for the following: engine exhaust hose connections and fuel fill hose connections.

For all clamps, I suggest you consider only AWAB brand non-perforated, all-316 SS clamps. Using the best clamp in appropriate quantity on your new hose, and then remembering that the hose and clamp has a rather fixed lifespan, is the best insurance against failure.

[sscoll]

Absolutely no value gained by putting a clamp onto a hose that has nothing underneath. If you don't have enough pipe to support two clamps properly placed you haven't done the job. If you're willing to leave the dock without having done the job, then don't carry passengers.

A farmer up here in the north who was sought out for his meticulous diesel mechanical work and knowledge of how things worked and were put together taught me to put two clamps on a hose, one facing each direction. And check them.

Steve

[Tim]

If there's room for two clamps, go ahead and use them. I don't mean to suggest it's bad practice where room allows.

However, the fact remains that most tailpieces and hose barbs manufactured today and that are commonly used on boats do not technically have enough bearing surface to accept two clamps with ideal clearances between the clamps, between the first clamp and the end of the hose, and between the second clamp and the end of the barb within the hose. Hence my comments above, which are designed to suggest only that on many common barb fittings, one clamp may actually be more supportive than two.

There are certainly installations where two clamps work, but I feel it's important to point out that as a blanket recommendation, there are potential pitfalls to the practice that frequently go unaddressed, if only because they're unknown.

[christopher]

I'm getting the feeling that your A4 is a new critter to you.

You nailed it :) This whole owning a boat thing is a new critter to me. I've been a member at a sailing club for a number of years and the boats were always just ready to go.

Steve, are you a northerner as well I gather? Where do you sail out of?

Tim, dd, fig, and rachel, thanks very much for all the advice. This is all EXTREMELY good information. This is all very new to me. I'm pretty handy around the house and have done some pretty involved engine work in my day so I feel confident I can handle it all, but it's all just very unfamiliar for the time being.

Assuming the knees and bulkheads are sound and don't need strengthening/replacement, are the chainplates as easy to replace as Casey makes it sound?
Any recommendations on good replacements?

Thanks all -- you guys are a HUGE help! If I don't sink this season, it is certainly a credit to all of you :)

[sscoll]

Christopher

I sail out of the Ashland/Bayfield area to the north of you. If you're planning to attend Strictly Sail on Navy Pier weekend after this one I'd tip a brew with you.

My suggestion vis-a-vis chainplates is to go to the Circe rebuild pages that Tim has been posting on his northern yacht restoration web site. I've learned considerable by following along.

I'm not suggesting that you rebuild your boat before putting it in the lake but there's plenty of good reading and visual aids that will help you up the learning curve that we're all on.

Steve

[christopher]

I was half thinking about attending the Strictly Sailing event, but my Saturday is completely screwed by unnecessary in-law family obligations. I was thinking about taking off Friday and going down then. I've never been to one so it would be fun. When will you be down?

[Tim]

Does your wife know you're calling in-law family obligations "unnecessary"? :<)

Your secret is safe with us...

[christopher]

She's all too familiar with my reticence with regard to her family functions. They get together for EVERYTHING. EVERYONE'S EVERYTHING! I'll not go on anymore about it, but believe me - I COULD! :D

Any recommendation on hoses?? I might as well replace all the hoses and clamps just so I know they are good. I feel comfortable about the A4. I spoke with the boatyard that has done all the maintenance on it and they say it is in fine condition and always starts right up.

I'm going to shoot for projects that make it float and go for this season and then I'll worry about other stuff later. The rig is included in the going part... If you guys think it's realistic to do a chainplate replacement one by one with the mast up, I may try that.

[kabauze]

Christopher -

Nice boat! A dock neighbor of mine has a B29 and I've always really liked his. Yours looks great. Thanks for sharing all the pictures.

You ask about a mast-up chainplate replacement. That's how I did the chainplates on my Triton. Like almost all in-water or mast-up work, it is possible but far from ideal.
My Triton has both forward and aft lowers (the shrouds running from deck directly to the mast just under the spreaders) and uppers (which run from deck to the top of the mast). That means there were three pairs of shroud chainplates, plus the backstay chainplate. I skipped working on the stem fitting at the bow because it was in fine condition.

The aft lowers were the first to come out. Once I slacked off the rig tension by loosening all stays and shrouds, I popped the clevis pins and both aft lowers and just tied the loose shrouds up out of the way. The old chainplates didn't want to come out - they were rusted and bent - but I hammered and hauled until they came loose. After extensive work on the chainplate knees (the flanges to which they are bolted inside) I installed the new ones, bedded & bolted them in, and re-attached the shrouds. One pair down...

Next I did the uppers. This was tougher because I didn't want the top of the mast flapping around totally unsupported on the sides. Even though it probably would have been fine, since the lowers were holding it upright, I rigged the uppers to a beam lashed between the forward and aft lower chainplates. The picture below is less than ideal but perhaps it will help explain. Then I could remove and replace the upper shroud chainplates.

Once they were done I did the forward lowers in the same way as the aft lowers.

Finally came the backstay chainplate. I used a tight halyard led to the stern rail to brace the mast while the backstay was off.

Replacement was a HUGE job and took forever. All of the cabinetry in the head & hanging locker had to come out, plus I got to spend countless hours with my head and upper body stuck into the tiny lazarette locker glassing in a new backstay knee. It would have been nicer have the mast down and the boat empty so I could have just attacked the job without regard to mess made or whether the rig would fall down. How do you think Tim makes such rapid progress? He sets up his work environment so that there are as few obstacles, frustrations and secondary concerns as possible (plus he's just extraordinarily productive). I didn't have that skill during the chainplate replacement and I still am not as good as I'd like!

So, yes, it is possible. But rehearse the job mentally and on paper. Rehearse carefully and you'll be surprised at all the steps and side jobs you find lurking. It may be better for your sanity to drop the mast.

Best of luck to you, and I really look forward to hearing more about your adventures!

[sscoll]

Chris,
Guess I'm unsure about when I'll get to Strictly Sail. I like to go every couple of years to just wander the booths and attend a few seminars. I can't remember the fellow's name that discusses understanding weather patterns and predictions, he's really worthwhile.

At one point I'd thought about sailing to Chicago for the summer jazz festival but locals disabused me of that in a hurry. They pointed out that Chicago is a place to sail "from" not "to". Enjoy that family time, they revel in your enthusiasm.

Steve

[christopher]

Christopher -

Nice boat! A dock neighbor of mine has a B29 and I've always really liked his. Yours looks great. Thanks for sharing all the pictures.

You ask about a mast-up chainplate replacement. That's how I did the chainplates on my Triton. Like almost all in-water or mast-up work, it is possible but far from ideal.

Thanks kabauze! This has all been quite eye-opening. I think I'll enjoy the work though. My wife bought me a nice tablesaw for christmas so that I can remake some of the interior pieces that I don't like.

As for the chainplates, thanks for the insight. I think the B29 has the same shroud configuration based on your description. 3 pairs/6 total chainplates. 2 of the pairs being the lowers. I think I'm going to wait to get the boat home to do the replacement. I've got a wealth of people with experience who'd be willing to help me back home and none where the boat is now. I figure I'll sail in ideal winds and motor if it gets too windy. I plan on taking a day to shake her down in the harbor where she's currently at and make sure everything is reasonably sound. Can't wait for it to warm up!

[christopher]

Called the boat yard where this boat was stored for many years before the PO to try and get some history on her. I was really impressed at how nice the folks were at the yard. The woman in the service department tried reaching the owner at the time to get more information on the boat, but the number they had on file was disconnected. She also compiled a list of all the maintenance they had done on it for me. Super nice folks in Muskegon!

I found out that the enclosure at the mast base was fabricated. They called it a mast shim. I'm not sure why this would have been done???

She reported that they repaired a leak in the mast step with Life Seal caulk... and is probably the source of my leak now 5 years later. The gentleman I bought it from drilled a nice big hole in the fiberglass headliner in the head to try to drain the water. Hopefully the water has not worked it's way to anywhere that it will do structural damage.

She reported that the lifelines were shortened. This to me was confusing. Somebody installed those toerails and fabricated the shims under the mast and cowl vents. Why would a guy install toe rails and fabricate a mast shim himself but pay to have the lifelines shortened? Anyway... no mysteries were solved, but I have some more information on the boat I guess.

If any one has any idea why a shim would be put at the mast base... I'd love to hear theories. I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to have the mast unstepped before she goes in the water so that I can have a better look at everything and make sure everything is sound.

[Rachel]

Maybe some of this can be explained by a racing past. (I was guessing earlier that your boat had been raced because of the backstay tensioner.)

Thoughts (that are just guesses):

1) Slotted toe rails - handy for attaching various racy hardware bits (or non-racy bits; don't get me wrong, these are handy). Look more like "modern" race boats.

2) "Shortened" life lines. Shortened in which dimension? Height or length? Oftentimes racers don't want the lifelines up at the bow because low-cut racing sails (the foot) get hung up on them. Maybe they were "shortened" there (see how they slope down from the forwardmost lifeline stanchion to the bow pulpit? I'm wondering if it is that).

3) Mast shim.... I'm not sure I'd assume that that *whole* fiberglass platform is what she meant was added. That sure looks factory (have you checked out other B-29 photos?). Usually, to my mind, a "shim" is something thin (and maybe angled) that is added to slightly adjust the height or height/angle of something. Now, that said, they *could* have laid up a gelcoated, piece like that, but.... did they?

Edited to add: Here is a photo of a B-29 I found online, which looks like it has the same platform:



4) Sealant at mast step: This could mean a few different exact locations, depending on what the yard crew was referring to.

Rachel

[christopher]

You're probably right about the racing bit given all your very valid observations. It just seems an odd boat to try to race up. It's like some of these kids that stick those annoying exhaust pipes and spoilers on their mom's old economy hatchback. The boat does have "spinnaker gear" but no spinnaker. It has upgraded winches and I'm not sure that the vang was standard either. All speak to your point that someone was probably PHRF racing it or something. Once I have confidence in the rig I'll be entering a couple distance races. They are always a good time and a good way to improve sail trim and helm tactics.

I really like the idea of the rigid vang. I still question that the fiberglass mast step platform makes for a bad vang attachment point. It would seem to me that when close-hauled you'd actually get a better angle of attack to flatten the sail. Not sure how that translates as it gets sheeted out... I'm no racer or physicist and I'm mainly interested in just keeping the boom up when I let the sail down so maybe I just save a little ching and add a topping lift.

[fatmax]

Hi
recently found this cool site, I have a Bristol 29 as well, great boat. I noticed your photo of the spreaders, it appears the sockets are original cast aluminum, as mine are, anyway i have read that they are prone to breaking. this is true, as I found one of mine had been welded by a previous owner. no further problem so far but I think i will replace them with stainless steel.
also seen the pic of the chain plate, something just does not look right . tuff call for sure though. I'll look closer at mine next time I'm on the boat.
that plywood on the hull could be a backing support for a repair at one time

[1LaughingLarry]

You all have such extravagant vessels. For me, my Boston Whaler works great. The best of all worlds, and yet still fits in my garage!

http://www.iplasticsupply.com/wp-conten ... ailer.jpeg

Keep posting those great pictures of your boats, it make me dream bigger.