Plastic Classic Forum

I was nervous about setting the spinnaker for the first time. I read everything I could find on the subject. Waited for nice calm day. Voila! No problem. (OK small problem)

Hehe!

Ha! Congrats on getting the chute up and for taking a photo of your learning process.

Take a Sharpie and label the head and clews. When you pack your chute, bring the head and clew rings together and be sure the head is the middle ring. You can pass the bag's drawstring through the rings to keep them together on the top of the bag. When you hook up the lines, it should then be easy to be sure your halyard and sheets are properly attached.

Also, it might just be the moment you took the photo, but it looks like your pole is too far aft. As a general guide, the pole should be on about the same axis as the boom. To determine if the pole should go up or down, just look at the clews - they should be even.

For a little more unsolicited advice, be sure you don't strap the chute. It's a common mistake. Ease the sheet just until the shoulder starts to curl and then sheet in. You'll be working the sheet almost constantly.

Have fun with it. Many sailors never fly the chute. While it's more work, it's also more rewarding and often more fun.

I love the Triton logo on the spinnaker as well.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. I have a lot to learn. I also parted the bridle on the pole as I tried to pull the pole aft without easing the topping lift as you can see in the picture if you look closely. I have the topping lift jury rigged. (the bridle is dangling) It was great fun and kept the TWO of us quite busy. I broke the bridle on the first set. The upside down picture is the 2nd set. The third set worked out well, and then the wind picked up, but that's another story with a hole 'nuther set of problems. I never thought breaking things could be so much fun! Here is a pic from a little later in the day. I suspect this spinnaker has not been flown in quite some time. There was no spin gear on the boat when I bought it 1 1/2 yrs ago. I've been on a mission "to get it up" ever since.
Jim
PS I have a new main sail ordered and on the way!

In your first picture (the sideways one), it looks like the main is on starboard tack, with the spinnaker pole out to port as well...can you explain that?

One other easy way to tell the head, other than the obvious suggestion to mark it, is that it contains both red and green luff tapes, whereas each clew has only the corresponding color luff tape. It's a real easy mistake to make, and just about everyone's put up a spinnaker sideways at one time or another.

Fly it loose with a big curl and have fun. Spinnakers are great fun to fly, except for all the times they're stressful, cranky, and miserable.

(I've also always had a swivel on the head to eliminate confusion in the bag)

aahhhh, waaaaay back in my college days we were sailing a regatta at the USNA on the 44s, just making it up as we went along really, we were mostly dinghy sailors with a bit of big-boat experience mixed in. The bowman was given that role not because he had any experience at all, but because those on board with bow experience were more sorely needed elsewhere. Or so we thought.

Up goes the chute..... sideways. Just like your pic above, but on the other gybe, so that the pole was at the tack and the sheet was at the head. We spent the next ten minutes arguing between those who were mortified and wanted it taken down immediately, and others who noted that the boat was FLYING, running away from this boat and running down another. It was just a big goofy asymmetric! Eventually a member of the first camp lunged for the clutch and down she came, in a most uncontrolled and unseamanlike fashion. Insult upon injury, we were DFL to the bottom mark as a result.

Good times.

I love the logo on the spinnaker. Damn, now that's TWO I need to get.

Hey, you handled it better than Team New Zealand has been handling their spin!

Hehe, too funny :-)

See...even the pros screw it up. That's the nature of spinnakers, I guess!

Up goes the chute..... sideways. Just like your pic above, but on the other gybe, so that the pole was at the tack and the sheet was at the head. We spent the next ten minutes arguing between those who were mortified and wanted it taken down immediately, and others who noted that the boat was FLYING, running away from this boat and running down another. It was just a big goofy asymmetric!

Great story, I have to admit, I was tempted to leave it up as we moving right along as well with no witnesses! I will be back on the water tomorrow with better results (I hope)

Cheers!

That is why we call it "The reaching chute" It isn't upside down, we just have an asymmetric with a reeeeel long foot.

#218 wrote: Ease the sheet just until the shoulder starts to curl and then sheet in. You'll be working the sheet almost constantly.

This is commonly referred to as "the lip of Elvis." You will notice that it quivers a bit if properly set. One of my favorite terms. :)

#218 wrote: To determine if the pole should go up or down, just look at the clews - they should be even.

Unless you find yourself close reaching, in which case a bit of luff tension (pole down) isn't such a bad thing. Just enough to stabilize the curl.

Out of curiosity, how do you folks have your foreguy (pole downhaul) rigged?
I generally just run it to the foredeck cleat, which is great on a reach but not so convenient on a run. I think I need to add a small cleat to the forward face of the mast low.

Figment wrote:

#218 wrote: Out of curiosity, how do you folks have your foreguy (pole downhaul) rigged?
I generally just run it to the foredeck cleat, which is great on a reach but not so convenient on a run. I think I need to add a small cleat to the forward face of the mast low.

Yes I have it rigged to the cleat on the foredeck as well. Unfortunately I have not been able to get the chute up again as it has been to windy every time I've been out. It has been great sailing but I don't have the nerve to put the chute up in strong winds yet.

Jim

Second time she went up with ease. (thanks for all the tips everyone) I still can't get that nice round shape. I raised the pole as high as the track will allow. The spin was oscillating a little, my picture caught it when the luff was at it's tightest so it was a little rounder at times. I raised the pole topping lift a little for better shape. What if I eased the halyard about a foot? Lots of fun though! New mainsail looks good too huh?

When I flew the spinnaker on my Renegade, my older one always looked like it had a funny shape-- something out of "the Cat in the Hat" maybe. It looked stretched out at the ends and rather narrow at the top. I got it from Hull #1 and liked to use it in really light air because it was pretty light-- almost like crepe paper, but it was fast in light winds.

The newer one that came with my boat had more of a proper shape. But it was heavier and and a sock system that made it tangle frequently. I hardly flew it.

Aweigh329 wrote: Second time she went up with ease. (thanks for all the tips everyone) I still can't get that nice round shape. I raised the pole as high as the track will allow. The spin was oscillating a little, my picture caught it when the luff was at it's tightest so it was a little rounder at times. I raised the pole topping lift a little for better shape. What if I eased the halyard about a foot? Lots of fun though! New mainsail looks good too huh?

Jim

I'm told that the shape you see from on the boat is not the shape that everyone else sees from off the boat -- in other words, from another perspective you probably DO have a nice round shape.

Easing the halyard could exacerbate your oscillating problems.

Aweigh329 wrote:I still can't get that nice round shape.

That spinnaker, like mine, doesn't have very big shoulders. (Brian, what's the term I'm groping for here? "luff roach"?) Even in a stiff steady breeze it won't inflate to that big round shape you're thinking of.

I'm not sure why they're cut this way. Because this weak shouldered shape is easier to keep flying, and because it's just as good on a reach as a run, I imagine it's just a "cruiser thing". As much fun as it is to fly a big apple-shaped running chute, it does take some focus to do properly, and after about a half hour of having my eyeballs locked onto that curl, I'm ready to hand the sheet off to someone else for a spell.

All the same, I'm always on the lookout for a decent secondhand J24 spinnaker to have as a runner. ;)

Oh and yes I do think the spinnaker flies better if you ease the halyard a foot or so, just so that the head patch has room to fly around without being pinched by the jumper stays.

Figment wrote:I'm not sure why they're cut this way. Because this weak shouldered shape is easier to keep flying, and because it's just as good on a reach as a run, I imagine it's just a "cruiser thing".

Aside from my previous comment on old sails, I also wonder if maybe the CCA rules had something to do with the way they are cut. I know under PHRF, there are restrictions on girth (1.5*J I think??), I wonder if CCA rules might have some influence.

Jollyboat, you around??

I loved sailing my Triton out of Alameda. That harbor is perfect for learing how to set the spinnaker - well compared to the "slot" it is. Great pics. If you ever run across my first Triton #346 please wave hello for me - as I miss her dearly.

I've had the chute up a few times now. Things are going well. Dropped it too fast yesterday and got it wet. Ooops. I've been flying it higher and looser as recommended. Much better shape. Thanks for all the helpfull suggestions. There's a short video here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWbX9ytHgwU

Jim

Nice! You be jammin down wind. It is a great feeling leaving a wake with the wind behind you.

The chute does look a little tight and the lead for the guy could go forward to midships.

D

So buy moving the guy forward does that allow the pole to rise and therefore loosen up the luff? My pole is at the top of the track and I let the outboard end rise up a little to loosen things up but things still don't look right to me. I understand the pole should be level, right?

thanks,
Jim

Aweigh329 wrote:So buy moving the guy forward does that allow the pole to rise and therefore loosen up the luff? My pole is at the top of the track and I let the outboard end rise up a little to loosen things up but things still don't look right to me. I understand the pole should be level, right?

Actually, it brings the pole end down more directly. Some one design boats eliminate the downhaul (foreguy) entirely and use twings - sliding blocks riding on each sheet - to snub the guy to the rail just about amidships. Twings are jibed with the kite.

In most cases the pole should be level; although it you're reaching you might want to lower the end to increase luff tension; if you want to spill some air, raise it a bit.

gjvp is right, moving the guy forward pulls the pole down. I think it appears tight because the chute was over sheeted.

The pole should be level and the clews should be level. In addition, (and the toughest one to check) is that the line from tack to clew on the spinnaker should be approximately parallel to the line from the tack to the clew on the main sail. That is from North Sails Performance Trim.

I have been trimming the chute on Legacy for 5 years now and I am still not confident at any moment that the chute is trimmed optimally.

Thanks again for the advice. I'm going to make a loop around the bay tomorrow so maybe I can put the chute up on the way back in and try tweaking things a little more. (oops, gale warnings up for tomorrow, maybe kite not good idea, we'll see)