Cockpit lockers and fuel tank while I'm in there.

[Figment]

This is my own little spinoff of Joe's "Recent Progress" thread. Just call me George Jefferson.

I'm laying things out before I cut. Smart, eh?


Yeah, they're big. So am I.
Of course, drawings only get me so far. It takes some nice fat pencil lines on the boat to show me what's what. Today the pencil lines showed me that I'm going to run into the seat drains. They've always seemed too far aft anyway. Someone (Nathan maybe?) moved them forward with a slick little elbow, and I'm thinking along those lines myself.
Yeah, it'd be a whole lot easier to make the openings smaller by a few inches, but is this supposed to be "easy"? Where's the fun in "easy"?

[Mark.Wilme]

What are the circles ? eggs ?

[bcooke]

hehe, I know what those circles represent!... Wouldn't twelve be a better number of circles?

Is that drawing to scale? If so then you have much too much time on your hands.

So the earlier Tritons had an original seat drain? I am going to copy Nathan's idea too. That little puddle is just so annoying.

-Britton

[Tim]

The older Tritons had a molded cockpit seat drain in the location Mike shows in his drawing. Pearson, using infinite wisdom, decided to eliminate those drains in the later deck mold.

The location shown in Mike's drawing works relatively well, but the drains really should have been at the forwardmost corner of the cockpit, like the new ones Nathan installed (he had none to begin with). Still, it's better than no drains at all. Moving them forward would be a good plan, particularly if it means you can have larger cockpit locker openings.

I say make the openings as large as you can, which is pretty much what you've done in this drawing. The stock top-opening lids aren't nearly large enough, and with the deep gutters it's nearly impossible to reach the valuable space at the forward ends of the lockers.

All this almost makes me wish that Glissando hadn't had the stock top-opening lids. I'm liking the look of these larger ones, with the shallower gutters like Joe's. I don't know what Pearson was thinking with the 10" deep gutters that effectively shut off reasonable access outside of the lid. (I don't know what Pearson was thinking in a lot of areas, actually.)

Is your "egg crate" located aft of the fuel tank? Is there really that much room there clear of the tank?

If you need a dedicated locker for the beer cans, don't you also need a matching one for the chips and dip? Let's plan this carefully, now.

[dasein668]

If you need a dedicated locker for the beer cans, don't you also need a matching one for the chips and dip? Let's plan this carefully, now.

Perhaps in the "matching space" on the other side?

Someone (Nathan maybe?) moved them forward with a slick little elbow

For convenience, here is what I did re: cockpit seat drains, lifted from my website:

For the cockpit seat drains, I followed a similar course of action. I created the drains themselves from one-inch pvc pipe. I used a small 90-degree elbow, a short straight piece, and a pvc to hose barb connector. After milling the recess for the grate, I drilled a hole sized to the outside diameter of the pvc elbow, and epoxied the scupper in place.

[dasein668]

Is that drawing to scale?

I hope not, 'cuz it looks like Mike has mocked up a 4x4 post for his tiller, if so!

[Figment]

If it ain't to scale, it's close enough. I forget how I put that drawing together. Probably a tracing of a scanned deck plan, with a few cricital dimensions field-verified. yeah, I loves me a beefy tiller!

Is there room behind the tank for the beer locker? I dunno. Probably not. I won't know for sure until I start cutting. Scooting the fuel tank forward a few inches won't break the deal, though. I'll probably move it all the way forward while I'm at it.
Someone somewhere was recently discussing the notion of moving the tank all the way forward up against the galley module, but I can't remember who.

Nathan, thanks for the link to the drain detail. Again, very slick.

Yes, the ill-placed drains are better than no drains at all, except that they CONSTANTLY get plugged with chee-tos and shredded lettuce and grapes and such. They're almost as bad as the side deck drains in this regard. A screen/grate would be a nice little cure, but would be a real eyesore in that spot.

Yes, twelve would be a more appropriate number of "circles". I did the fourth row as an easy diagrammatic way to accommodate space for ice. Actually, the thing is designed on the assumption that I don't move the fuel tank, and that it's a really shallow tub, so shallow that I need to lay my Real Beer (tall brown bottles, thankyouverymuch) on its side, and then have room for some soda cans as well. If I move the fuel tank, all bets are off! I'll do it full-depth so I can fit a full case plus sammiches, plus a nook for chilled veggie sticks and dip, and a refrigeration plate, and, um, well maybe not so much.

[dasein668]

Yes, twelve would be a more appropriate number of "circles". I did the fourth row as an easy diagrammatic way to accommodate space for ice. Actually, the thing is designed on the assumption that I don't move the fuel tank, and that it's a really shallow tub, so shallow that I need to lay my Real Beer (tall brown bottles, thankyouverymuch) on its side, and then have room for some soda cans as well. If I move the fuel tank, all bets are off! I'll do it full-depth so I can fit a full case plus sammiches, plus a nook for chilled veggie sticks and dip, and a refrigeration plate, and, um, well maybe not so much.

Gee Tim, looks like you might finally have some competition in the Luxury Department!

[Tim]

Yes, the ill-placed drains are better than no drains at all, except that they CONSTANTLY get plugged with chee-tos and shredded lettuce and grapes and such.

It sounds like the drains aren't the problem, but your sloppy eating is. Perhaps a trip to "dining out" school is in order?

A screen/grate would be a nice little cure, but would be a real eyesore in that spot.

I used one of the 1.5" diameter Perko blower grate thingies. Is it really a terrible eyesore? It works extremely well for keeping debris out. This one happens to be on the sidedeck, but I have the same thing in the cockpit.

Gee Tim, looks like you might finally have some competition in the Luxury Department!

Perhaps so, but it sounds like watching Mike eat might negate the luxuries afforded by that slick beer cooler.

[dasein668]

Gee Tim, looks like you might finally have some competition in the Luxury Department!

Perhaps so, but it sounds like watching Mike eat might negate the luxuries afforded by that slick beer cooler.

Meh. We'll just get him a feedbag. No problem!

Tim, I think on Pixie, you should devise some sort of automatic Mt.Gay dispensor system for the cockpit. Push a button and ice, lime, rum, and tonic are accurately metered into your glass?without even a need to get up from your seat!

That could prevent some of those spilled drinks "we've" experienced in the past!

[Figment]

It's really more of a timing thing. I'll notice a lull in the weather and say "hey the wind has died down a bit, why don't we break out some lunch?". hint hint hint.
Julia finishes reading the page, goes below, futzes with this, futzes with that, retrieves the grub from the cooler, goes off on a rant because the deli didn't cut the sandwiches into manageable pieces, goes off on another rant because I have very nice kitchen knives at home that I won't let her use but both the knives in the galley are absolute crap, laments the fact that the sandwich guy ALWAYS puts tomatoes on the sandwich no matter how many times you tell him not to, frisbees the tomato slices overboard, mops the tomato goo from the bread while singing her eew eeew eew I hate gross tomato goo song, and FINALLY passes the food up into the cockpit so I can stop chanting "any day now...."
A half hour has passed, the lull in the weather has passed. The wind has shifted 40 degrees and is up ten knots, we're eating while heeled 25 degrees, bouncing through confused water, and yeah, the bag of chee-tos invariably slides across the bridge deck and dipenses a few golden sticks of joy down the seat drain.

I need to learn to anticipate that lull in the weather 20 minutes ahead of time.

Those perko drain grates look fine on the side deck, where one expects to see such hardware. They also look fine in the corners of the cockpit sole, where one expects to see such hardware.
It's that seemingly-random drain location partway along the otherwise completley pristine seats that makes them an eyesore in that particular application. I'm sure they'll look fine tucked into the forward corners of the seats.

(psst, tim, you forgot a screw in that drain grate. attention to detail, man!)

[Duncan]

...valuable space at the forward ends of the lockers.

moving the tank all the way forward up against the galley module

Sounds like a good idea, better use of space, gets some weight more in the middle of the boat, too.

[Tim]

It's really more of a timing thing. I'll notice a lull in the weather and say "hey the wind has died down a bit, why don't we break out some lunch?". hint hint hint.
Julia finishes reading the page, goes below, futzes with this, futzes with that, retrieves the grub from the cooler, goes off on a rant because the deli didn't cut the sandwiches into manageable pieces, goes off on another rant because...blah blah blah...through confused water, and yeah, the bag of chee-tos invariably slides across the bridge deck and dipenses a few golden sticks of joy down the seat drain.

Methinks thou dost protest too much!

(psst, tim, you forgot a screw in that drain grate. attention to detail, man!)

No, not forgotten. That screwhole actually ended up over the scupper hole itself, or at least partly, since the grate is off-center thanks to the toerail (and the scupper hole is very close to even the original molded rail).

Maybe I should have cut the head off a screw and secured it to the grate just for appearances' sake.

It's that seemingly-random drain location partway along the otherwise completley pristine seats that makes them an eyesore in that particular application.

You're so weird. (But no weirder than I.) But then again, I use cockpit cushions that remain in place all season, so maybe it's just a matter of not seeing the eyesore.

Here are the drains on the cockpit seats. I found a picture, if not a good one. (Yes, that outboard screw doesn't work in these ones either.)

[Figment]

I found myself with some free time this afternoon and a jigsaw in my hand. A dangerous combination, I know, but I managed to proceed with discipline.

I started by cutting the port side. WOW that's a lot of space down there. I'm psyched.

On to the starboard side. WOW that fuel tank eats up a lot of space.
I'll definitely need to move the tank forward to be able to pull off the whole beer locker thing. I must say, the view from above the tank is dramatically different from the view from the engine compartment. There really isn't that much distance for it to travel. Maybe 12-14"? Enough to make the beer locker happen, sure, but not the night-and-day move it seemed from below.

Pics to follow, of course.

[jhenson]

WOW that's a lot of space down there. I'm psyched.

Amazing the difference, isn't it? I stood there and said- COOOOOL!!!! Like you said, cutting those beautiful holes gets you fired up to see the project though.

Did you decide to form the gutters from wood or layup fiberglass over molds?

Joe

[Tim]

...cutting those beautiful holes gets you fired up to see the project though.

Plus, you have these huge holes that you know you have to fill/repair before you can go sailing again!

Nothing like actually cutting into your boat to motivate you to get into the project, though.

I'll definitely need to move the tank forward to be able to pull off the whole beer locker thing.

Do you need the beer locker more than the good "real" storage at the forward end of the space? If you move the tank forward, you'll lose all that potential. Of course, you haven't been using that area now anyway, since you couldn't get to it before cutting out the top, so you may not miss it.

What about clearance for your gauges and throttle assembly if you move the tank forward? The tank is typically pretty close (within an inch) to the side of the cockpit well, while the throttle you have requires more than that--not to mention space required for future service access. Then again, the throttle opening might end up just above the top of the tank if you move it forward too, so it might work just fine. You probably have already considered this, of course.

This photo shows how the tank sits, for those of you who aren't intimately familiar with the setup. (This is Triton #158 here.)



Just some additional thoughts to keep in mind. There are probably reasonable workarounds, such as possibly sliding the tank outboard to increase the clearance, but that depends on how the weird shape of the tank corresponds to the curvature of the hull when slid forward. The tank is very awkwardly shaped to accommodate its original far-aft position, with the significant 2-direction upward sweep of the hull in that area.

Anyway, good luck, and let's see those pictures!

[Figment]

Nice big holes in the boat. Portside. It's DEEP in the forward end!



And starboard side.
It looks like the tank can realistically move forward about 15". In that distance, it will drop down about 4", which leaves about 11-1/2" of space above the tank.

[Tim]

Wow! Those are huge. That'll be great access. I'm jealous.

[Figment]

Speaking of that fuel tank.... For some reason I was under the impression that early models like mine had monel tanks. Does this look like monel?




Looks like painted steel to me. I took a file to one of the welds, and the fresh metal was silver.

Yep, it's the "might as well" phase of the project.
Might as well do seacocks for the cockpit drains while I can easily get my whole self down in there.
Might as well make battery shelves while I'm making supports for the waterlift.
Might as well at least THINK about a new fuel tank since I was able to just barely squeeeeak it out the nice big new hole.

[Duncan]

Yep, it's the "might as well" phase of the project.
Might as well do seacocks for the cockpit drains while I can easily get my whole self down in there.
Might as well make battery shelves while I'm making supports for the waterlift.
Might as well at least THINK about a new fuel tank since I was able to just barely squeeeeak it out the nice big new hole.

Yup, it's like reefing, if you think of it...
I had no idea you had such a big tank in those, or in such a rotten spot. A new one lower down and forward sounds like a great idea.

[bcooke]

Now look here! You are making me all jealous and itchy with my own skilsaw... Stop it. I have too much to do already.

That looks nice. I didn't think of that when I ordered the extra hatches for my cockpit. I think your way is better.

As the fuel tank slides forward it can also slide out a bit giving you a little more clearance but Tim is probably right about not enough room for your throttle assy. I am going to move mine to the other side anyway. You could do the same. You could also take that tank move thing a bit further and move it into the galley too. I am sure you have seen the pictures of that. Of course that means cooking dinner directly over the fuel tank or moving your stove to the other side. I don't know how you feel about that.

I don't think your tank is monel. I have heard that there are a variety of materials used in the fuel tanks. My monel tank was a bronzish color. (at least I think it was monel). I am expecting a quote for two under cockpit fuel tanks any day now. Should I try and get a group rate?

I wish my tank was installed like #158's. I had a LOT more tabbing holding it in there. Then I pulled it out, had a change of heart (and lack of time) and put it back in "as per original". Then I had to cut it out all over again. Thankfully, I sold the tank before I could change my mind again :-)

Do you need the beer locker more than the good "real" storage at the forward end of the space?

What a silly question. Of course he needs more room for beer. Everything else can go up in the V-berth.

Might as well... that epitaph is going on my tombstone.

-Britton

[bcooke]

BTW, that original Pearson builder signature should add value to the tank. Cool.

[Figment]

move the tank into the galley..... OF COURSE!! DUH!!
I'd completely forgotten about the potential for that.
Stove? My stove is charcoal-fired and hangs off the stern rail. Must be a "South of Cape Cod" thing.

A group rate for undercockpit tanks sounds like a cool deal.
I must say, though, that 20+ gallons is really a LOT more than I think I'll ever need. I burned a total of 15 gallons this year, and that includes all the "speed testing" with the different propellors. A4s burn three quarts an hour at cruise speed right? I'm thinking a 12 gallon tank is plenty for me, and I'd be blown away if your welder could touch the $120 neighborhood I've been browsing for 12gallon plastic tanks.

[bcooke]

For local sailing I agree that you don't need much over ten gallons. I figure a gallon an hour with my A4 knowing that I will have a bit extra in case I mis-calculate. When you come cruising up to Maine though, expect a lot of long light wind days. Just getting there will take 2-3 days of straight motoring (daylight hours). That is when the 25+ gallons comes in useful.

A friend took his Hinckley down the Intracoastal last month. He motored most of the way but only stopped once for fuel. He carries 380 gallons of diesel fuel and ~ 450 gallons of fresh water...

I shifted my fuel tank into the galley just to see how it works once. It fits quite well. There are pictures around here somewhere that were taken off the MIR site. Still, if you don't need or want the capacity you might replace the tank with a smaller plastic one under the cockpit and gain loads of storage area. I think I figured I could get 10-12 gallons under the cockpit without disturbing the transmission shift mechanism.

-Britton

[Allen]

Of course that means cooking dinner directly over the fuel tank

Uh, that doesn't give me a warm fuzzy Britton... ;)

[Tim]

BTW, that original Pearson builder signature should add value to the tank. Cool.

Yeah. It doubles the tank's value, I think.

$0 x 2 = $0.

[dasein668]

Yeah, but Britton leads a charmed life?remember the steering pedestal?

He could put that thing on eBay, highlight the signature and BAM! 1200 smacks.

[Duncan]

For local sailing I agree that you don't need much over ten gallons.

That's what I had been thinking. It seems to me that most people have more problems with fuel that sits too long, or condensation, or tanks that deteriorate, than running out of fuel. One way to look at it might be to look at a plastic tank of about 10-15 gallons, and keep a reserve in a jerry can or two for when it might be handy?

I think I might have mentioned that a friend of mine molded in support for a couple of plastic jerry cans on the side of a cockpit locker. I think this is brilliantly simple and flexible.

He just waxed the bottoms, and used them as molds for fiberglass pockets. Slide them in, fasten a strap across the middle, and you have a safe, seaworthy installation. It works in so many ways it makes you wonder why people bother with big built-in fuel tanks.

[Tim]

I think I might have mentioned that a friend of mine molded in support for a couple of plastic jerry cans on the side of a cockpit locker. I think this is brilliantly simple and flexible.

He just waxed the bottoms, and used them as molds for fiberglass pockets.

That's a great idea.

I agree that daysailing boats don't need much for fuel capacity at all. The possibility of stagnant fuel outweighs any consideration of a large tank. When all one does is motor in and out of the harbor for daysails, 10 gallons would last all year.

For coastal cruisers, though, who are more likely to use more fuel in a season, I think larger tanks, if not strictly necessary, come down to the convenience factor--fewer fillups along the way. Jerry cans are handy in all instances. I haven't been to a fuel dock in years; I just row the cans ashore and fill the boat tank from the jerry cans.

When I have space, I think I'll look into molding some supports like you described above. Tritons, unfortunately, don't have this sort of space in the lockers (at least not if the lockers are used for anything else.)

[bcooke]

I think some plastic tanks seep fuel vapors so you have to be careful with the ultra simple route. That is why outboard fuel tanks are not approved or recomended inside the hull. Kudos for simplicity though.

I strapped jerry cans to the shrouds on my last sailing trip but I have to say, looking at the pictures, I don't care much for the look. Disguising the fuel is my long term goal. Having 40 gallons of fuel on board was comforting. I think I picked up fuel only 2-3 times in the 10 week cruise and that included several motoring days.

Less fuel in the Triton stern is probably a good thing too- balance wise.

So what are you going to put in your new lockers?

I can paste your fuel tank pictures into an Ebay ad if you want me too. I only ask for 20% ;-)

[Figment]

This morning I was reminded of my triton-shopping days, and I recall that a number of boats had abandoned the original tank in favor of good ol' red 6gallon outboard tanks. I think one was even using a 3gallon.
I'm not saying it's an admirable precedent, but a precedent nonetheless.

ok then, Consensus:
1) Britton's charm will sell my existing tank for a king's ransom (2% commision, naturally).
2) Among other things, said king's ransom will fund a PAIR of new 10-gallon tanks. One for fuel, one for rum.
3) If, by some wild stroke of fate, I still own this boat when I find the time for longer-range cruising 25 years from now, I'll have enough other deck cargo to not really mind the presence of a jerry-can or two.

[Figment]

Note of paranoia to those who still have original tanks: Those tabbings aren't all that they might be. I tore three of the four away from the hull with my bare hand, just as Jim Bissonette reported in his fuel tank relocation writeup in the NTA MIR.

I've mocked-up two off-the-shelf tanks. At the moment, I favor this 12 gallon unit. I like that it's taller than wide, to minimize the "half-full tank is an empty tank when heeled" effect of a flatbottom tank.

It's a tight fit in this athwartships orientation, but it's a fit. The 3-1/2" clearance over the top could be a problem. Is there a particular reason why I need to use the deck fill instead of simply capping the neck on the tank and filling via the open hatch?
Alternatively, I could orient the tank fore-n-aft like this

which allows it to sit a few inches lower, but the fill hose would naturally have a low point that would hold fuel, which seems like a no-no.

The other tank I mocked is flatter than tall, and connecting a stiff fat fill hose would be no problem. 11.5 gallons

But its footprint is naturally greater, and it imposes more on the pure stowage space. The half-empty=empty thing also comes back into the picture. I'll call this one my "fallback".

[A30_John]

Is there a particular reason why I need to use the deck fill instead of simply capping the neck on the tank and filling via the open hatch?

I've often wondered this myself. Elimination of the deck fill = elimination of a source of water in your fuel.

[bcooke]

One reason that I can think of. While it is bad when you overfill or slop a bit and gas spills out on your deck and into the water, it would be really really bad if the spilled fuel drained into your bilge.

Commission is 20% not 2%. My sales skills don't come cheap.

The high and narrow is an improvement over the low and wide. I wish I could do better in my design but I am going to rely on excess baffles instead.

If you used 15 gallons all season why not stick a six gallon tank under the cockpit - that's less than three fills a year, each done with a single jerry can - thus centering the weight and freeing up storage space?

-Britton

[Duncan]

At the moment, I favor this 12 gallon unit. I like that it's taller than wide, to minimize the "half-full tank is an empty tank when heeled" effect of a flat bottom tank.

It's a tight fit in this athwartships orientation, but it's a fit. The 3-1/2" clearance over the top could be a problem.

In principle, I like that size and location/orientation. I imagine you're right about the clearance being a bit of a squeak, depending on your filler neck. The clearance would be further diminished if you mounted it on a shelf, which I would be inclined to do.
On the other hand, a tight fit could also be a good fit, and a straight fill right into the tank would be nice and simple.

[Tim]

Note of paranoia to those who still have original tanks: Those tabbings aren't all that they might be. I tore three of the four away from the hull with my bare hand, just as Jim Bissonette reported in his fuel tank relocation writeup in the NTA MIR.

That's been my experience too. These tabs are generally really cheesy and slapdash. The ones on #158 (see the photo earlier in this thread) are loose from the tank and appear as if they will pull right off the hull; in fact, I'm counting on it when I pull the tank out next week.

All of you who think that polyester resin makes acceptable secondary bonds for repairs should take note.

Is there a particular reason why I need to use the deck fill instead of simply capping the neck on the tank and filling via the open hatch?

Yes. This applies to gasoline fuel systems:

• 1. ABYC H-24.5.2: Fuel sytems shall be liquid and vapor tight to the hull interior.
  
  2. 33 CFR 183.564(a): Each fuel fill opening must be located so that a gasoline overflow of up to 5 gallons per minute for at least five seconds will not enter the boat when the boat is in its static floating position.

One can argue the true applicability of an ABYC standard that is not incorporated by reference into an enforceable law, but one cannot argue with the enforceable requirements of the CFR. Never mind the common sense aspect of the intelligence of pouring gasoline into an open locker.

Note that whether or not the same requirements apply to diesel fuel systems, I still wouldn't recommend having a belowdecks fuel fill opening. Besides any potential dangerous effect (diesel fuel is still flammable, of course, if safer from explosion than gasoline), the pure contamination and odor from the inevitable spills doesn't belong in anything connected to an accommodation space.

Deck fills have plenty of negative attributes, but they can be easily overcome with some installation care and ongoing maintenance.

At the moment, I favor this 12 gallon unit. I like that it's taller than wide, to minimize the "half-full tank is an empty tank when heeled" effect of a flatbottom tank.

There's a Triton with an 16-gallon version located in the same place. I would guess that the height of that tank must be the same as yours, given the tight clearance at the top. Too bad they don't make those tanks with a 90? fill neck. I don't think it would be awful if you came up with some sort of 90? thing that you could fit onto the roto-molded neck. It appears that the owner of the Triton in the photo below added some kind of bronze fitting, secured with hose to the tank's vertical fill neck.

If you can make the fill hose work, I'd go with the 12-gallon that you've mocked up in this orientation. The taller and narrower design would be a good thing.


Photo of Triton #227 Aliya

[Figment]

Did you decide to form the gutters from wood or layup fiberglass over molds?

Joe

whoops. The whole fuel tank thing distracted me.

I'm going to lay up the glass over molds. This really isn't my intuitive method, but a careful look at your installation convinced me to at least give it a shot. Encasing wooden gutters in glass would probably involve a LOT of obsessive finger-sanding after the fact, and man winter is just too short!

[A30_John]

Interestingly, I once looked at a boat with an eye to purchasing it, and the owner, a marine surveyor, had retrofitted a new fuel tank to the boat and quite intentionally put the fill on the tank inside the cockpit locker. He reasoned it was better to spill fuel inside the cockpit locker and clean it up there than have the authorities cite him for polluting. I've read that others do this to avoid the chance of getting water in the fuel via deck fittings. These were all diesel installations, of course. The ABYC standard deals with the very real safety issue of gasoline fumes in a confined space and you certainly don't want to risk gasoline spillage inside your boat.

[Figment]

Tim, thanks for posting that photo from #227. For some reason I couldn't link to it from the MIR page, and it's REALLY instructive to see.

That tank (the 18D) is 18" wide and 14" tall.
The 12gal tank I want (the 12S) is 18-3/4" wide and 16" tall.

Really can't imagine making those connections with 2" LESS overhead clearance. I think I need to look more closely at orienting the tank fore-and-aft to see how much vertical clearance I can capture.

[jhenson]

I'm going to lay up the glass over molds. This really isn't my intuitive method, but a careful look at your installation convinced me to at least give it a shot.

I think you'll be pleased with the result. Less bulk and better clearance under the gutters. No potential for rot down the road either. Given enough material, the molded gutters are also very strong. I would guess that the lids would break before the gutters would on my installation. Either system would work though.

You will have some voids in the gutters after they leave the molds. The molds are complex shapes and biax will not want to lay down perfectly, especially over the corners. I started the layup with 10 oz. material, but I don't know if that made the mold side surfaces that much smoother. I just did my engine controls enclosure without 10 oz. cloth and I really can't say there was that much difference in the surfaces. Some filling is inevitable anyway. I was able to sand much of the gutter surfaces using a Dremel with those mini drum sanders.

[Robert The Gray]

I wondered if any one had looked at a bathtub basket strainer as a solution to the scupper grate problem.
this is a link to the item
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-179712/Detail

just an idea......

r

[Tim]

I wondered if any one had looked at a bathtub basket strainer as a solution to the scupper grate problem.
this is a link to the item
http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-179712/Detail

just an idea......

r

That's an interesting idea that might work well if you could find a bathtub strainer made out of durable materials.

Most are brass or cheap pot metal that wouldn't last long in the salt water environment required of most scuppers, and therefore would be a poor choice. But there might be some better ones made of bronze or stainless.

[Figment]

Back onto cockpit lockers....

On those "factory' locker lids, how do the piano hinges mount? Do the lids (when closed) have a vertical leg at the back edge?

[dasein668]

Mine are just mounted flat on the exterior. I'm not exactly clear on what you mean by a "vertical leg."

No good pic, but you can probably see well enough from this picture:

[Tim]

The stock installation uses just a surface-mounted hinge. Nothing fancy. The back side of the locker lid is just whatever thickness the lid is--no additional "leg" or other material there.

It'd certainly be more attractive if the hinge were hidden, and screwed to the back of the lid and inside of the opening so that only the barrel was visible.

[Figment]

thanks, guys. The hidden-hinge look is what I'm after. I think I know how to pull it off, but this may call for another mockup! yay, fun!

That pic also answers another hardware question... no latch, eh?
that's just fine with me.

[dasein668]

Tim actually does have a latch now. I want to install one, but haven't gotten around to it yet. One of these days....

[Tim]

I have latches now. I hate these, though. They catch lines.

Latches are probably unnecessary unless you're heading offshore (you're not) or need to lock the lockers (hopefully not, but you are in southern New England, after all). I didn't see any evidence that my original lids had ever had hardware.

this may call for another mockup! yay, fun!

Are you kidding, or do you actually like mockups? I hate it. I'd rather just build the thing, whatever it is. Sometimes, though, mockups are a necessary evil, and most beneficial. But if I can avoid making one, I do.

[Summersdawn]

My boat has a line that is tied to the underside of the locker lid, passes through a fairlead, and runs into cabin, where it goes through a jam cleat. It works well, gives you the ability to lock your lockers, and has a clean look from the outside. I personally don't have a problem with the line running from the lid. I find it doesn't get in the way. I have full size locker lids like you. With smaller locker lids, the line would be in the way I think.

[Figment]

I had planned to go latchless. Yeah, this ain't Maine, but I'm not about to go around undoing a bunch of padlocks every time I step aboard. I figured that if they rattled or otherwise had a tendency to open at inopportune moments, I'd grab some pneumatic pistons from the auto parts store.

But then I remembered the icebox. I might want a more positive closure on that lid. hmmmmmm. I'll come up with something.

Yeah, sometimes it feels like a mockup is a waste of time and that I should've just built the thing, but there are plenty of other times when I would've built it twice anyway because of something I learned along the way.
Sometimes I get lucky and the mockup actually gets integrated into the final product.
This whole deal of laying up the hatch gutters on molds is (I think/hope) sort of like doing a mockup. I can modify the mold to my heart's content before laying up the pieces, and it's not really wasted time, but invested time, because if the final product is flawed in some way, I need only make whatever minor correction to the mold is necessary, and lay up another.

Having said all of that, I'm perfectly happy that this hinge issue occurred to me BEFORE I'd finished the molds!