Portlight removal

[BS Smith]

To remind, I'm in slow process of refurbishing a LeComte NE38. One task has been the aluminum portlights1/. So far, I've only removed them, but plan to clean the frames and repaint, cut new Lexan panes, bed and install.

The boat has three small and two large portlights per side. They weren't easily removed. Bronze screws securing portlight frames to cabin trunk for the most part were not difficult, but the stainless machine screws that hold retaining ring to frame were very time and patience consuming. Heat (butane mini-flame, MAP gas), solvent (PB Blaster), and a hammer-driven impact driver were used. The impact driver was most effective; the others less obviously so.

The small portlights mount through the trunk from inside the cabin and were fastened with six bronze “wood” screws. The pane fits into a depression in the frame inside the cabin and is secured by a flat aluminum ring that covers the frame inside the cabin, fastened to the frame by six machine screws.

The large portlights also have a frame and a ring, and the frame mounts in the trunk from inside the cabin. But the pane is installed from outside the cabin and the ring that secures the pane mounts from outside the cabin and fits inside the frame. Fourteen bronze wood screws hold the (aftmost) frame to the trunk, and 19 machine screws secure the ring to the frame.

The large portlight rings are screwed vertically to the frames, unlike the small portlight rings screwed horizontally. Almost all ring screws on the topside of the large portlights were easy to remove—a good thing as there was limited room to use an impact driver. But the other ring screws, after many years in retained saltwater, were effectively “welded” in. (Once removed the screws had only a faint coating of white powder, but this was enough to frustrate their removal.)

A couple machine screws per large portlight were unable to be unscrewed and had to be drilled out. A succession of drill bits was used—titanium, colbalt, carbide. Only the latter worked, beautifully in fact. Seeing the carbide bit chew through a screw head that resisted (and had been work hardened) by all other methods was especially heartening. Not inexpensive though—about $15 per from MSC Industrial Supply.

I probably should be embarrassed to admit the removal took weeks of effort and months of elapsed time. A final frustration was that two large portlight rings were broken (into three pieces…) during the removal. It remains to be seen whether they’ll be reinstalled in pieces, with at least one screw per piece, and the gaps epoxied over and painted. Or new rings fabricated in aluminum or stainless or cast in epoxy. Or I revisit New Found Metals’ website...

Before reinstalling the portlights, the cabin trunk openings will need to be filled and faired, and the interior paneling refinished.

If of interest, here are several shots of the removed portlights and what remained:

Funnels, small portlight frame, charley noble base, grab rail, small portlight ring


Port aft large portlight frame


Port small portlight frame and paneling backside head


Port aft large portlight


Port small portlight main cabin


Port small portlight head


Port small portlight fwd cabin


Stb small portlight fwd cabin


Stb small portlight fireplace


Stb small portlight main cabin


Port aft large portlight exterior


Port small portlights exterior


Stb small portlight charley noble


Stb main cabin fwd large portlight


Any comments welcomed.

Brian
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1/ Regarding terminology, my understanding is that boat windows are portlights and boards that cover portlights are deadlights, which seems sensible. But I believe I've also seen portlights to mean boat windows that open, and deadlights to be those that don't, which seems less so. In any event, all the NE38's windows are non-opening, except for one in the head.

[Oscar]

Wow.....you won't be bored for a while..... Looks promising.

[Quetzalsailor]

Brian, good luck!

Which NE 38 is this? And what model? You may also find useful posts on the LeComte Owner's Site, but this one attracts more posts. Speaking with Art Karpf, the original dealer for the boats, is always useful, too.

Looks like this boat has been 'updated' some time in the distant past. Original NE 38 port installations do not look anything like what you've found. Ours is almost original, having been rebedded at least once and using all the original parts (except the bungs, of course).

Being an unabashed traditionalist/restorationist/Classical architecture/old boat lover/antique lover...etc., I will recommend restoring the Bill Tripp/LeComte look to the ports. Sadly, on your boat, this will be a chore, since the original rolled-inwards shape in the deck layup has been chopped out (or perhaps this boat was custom). All original ports had the rolled inward shape: the gelcoat and the glass is radiused inwards and then appears to turn out onto filler installed into the interior. Must be an expensive detail to mould! And to release from the mould! The original filler appears to be cork-filled polyester resin: light and screwable. The deck and house roof are cored with Airex foam but the house sides are not. Hardboard ceilings are affixed by small screws installed into 1cm plywood strips which are, in turn, screwed into the deck and overhead's inner lamina where there is core. The house side liners are 3mm +/- varnished plywood nailed to the edge of the plywood strips under the side decks and simply slipped into a concealed grooved strip at the top. (On our boat, the plywood strips are variously in poor shape and the ceilings are loose.) The house side liners are roughly the same thickness as the glass in the 9 fixed ports so both materials are roughly in plane. The glass is sealed to the fiberglass (with Butyl, probably, originally). Plywood trim rings are screwed and bunged; screws through the liners and into the cork filler. The head operable port is installed in much the same way, but with its trim ring shaped to accomodate the bronze port frame.

Admittedly, this installation is probably less secure than a through-bolted stainless port but its evidently adequate. It's certainly prettier, and distinctive from the exterior. And the all wood interior is more attractive than frames and trim.

[Chris Campbell]

Hi Brian,

Hopefully John Tarbox will respond to this thread, or has already PM'ed or emailed you. He's redone his portlights on Altaire - the originals were intact, but leaking, and he was concerned with making them stronger for doing some bluewater passages. I don't know the details of what he did, but I did hear about the project up until their removal, so I know he's done something.

Doug mentions the way the windows look when they're stock - here's a photo of Zwerver:

You can see that from the outside there is just a rolled-in lip against which the windows sit. I believe what John found when he took them apart from the inside was not confidence-inspiring from the perspective of shrugging off a wave - but they sure do look nice, inside and out (inside is all wood, as this photo shows).

I don't know what I would do in your shoes, but it would probably be try to come up with a way to regain the look of the original but enhance the wave-resisting strength. I always thought that if I were going to take Weatherbird offshore I'd add captive nuts on the outside of the doghouse around the windows and have lexan storm shutters to bolt in place from the outside. That way the origina look and insufficient-for-bluewater construction wouldn't need to be bothered, but the needed strength for passages would be available.

Good luck with it! And keep us posted. Whatever you do, don't lose the look of the LeComte large windows aft - I think that would really negatively impact the boat...

Cheers,

Chris