Preparation for Deck Repainting

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BS Smith
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Preparation for Deck Repainting

Post by BS Smith »

Here too the pace has been “deliberate” (more accurately, “snail-like”). During winter, several layers of paint were scraped off. Here’s an example of what the deck looked like before scraping:

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and of one of the larger “chips” removed:

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The initial (unrealistic) hope was that the original nonskid could be repainted, so scraping was done before sanding. Further reading here and elsewhere, and seeing the uncovered nonskid made clear full sanding and recoating is required. Here’s an example of what was under the many coats of paint:

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The darkened areas are dirt and mildew and usually coincide with 2-inch or so scar-like cracks in the substrate.

Before sanding, much of the deck hardware has been removed. Portlight removal (for refurbishment and to prepare the cabin trunk for painting) has been discussed elsewhere. As was the case for portlights, screws mounted into the deck or cabin roof were easily removed; those into metal were not. And large nuts and bolts generally were much easy to unscrew than small ones.

I now need to decide how much more deck “hardware,” loosely defined, needs to be removed.

Some items have been decided for me. For example, on both sides of the part of the cabin roof that the companion way hatch slides into there is a stainless U-shaped bracket on a post. It doesn’t help that I don’t know what these brackets are for (rests for the dodger when folded?), but they have paint slopped over them, and I wanted to remove and clean them, and of course do a better paint job than previously applied. I removed many companionway trim pieces before the hatch could be slid out, only to realize that nuts securing the bracket bolts are well inside the cover (ten inches?) and in a space too narrow to fit a socket and extension handle. There probably are extra-long open end wrenches that would do the job, but now I’ve resigned only to clean the bracket in situ and then mask-off for painting.

Here’s a picture of the (barely visible) bracket and exposed companionway:

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a clearer shot of the starboard bracket (looking forward):

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and the starboard inside of the companionway hatch cover, with inaccessible nuts highlighted:

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Difficulties in removing the brackets, together with my slow and imperfect portlight removal, has caused extreme caution (read “paralysis”) in any further hardware removal.

For example, the engine hatch and hatch frame were removed in order to remove a shabby plexiglass engine instruments cover:

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but I now plan to leave the main and forward cabin hatch bases:

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in place, refinishing them with stripper and sandpaper before deck painting.

The toerail is in decent shape, so I plan to refinish it in place also. Gennie tracks sit a bit above the rail:

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and if not stubbornly through-bolted, I plan to remove them before refinishing the rails.

The previous picture also shows one of the secondary winches. Here are a couple more:

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South Coast chrome is largely gone, and if feasible (any opinion?), main and secondary winches would look much better rechromed. Also it’s clear the teak winch base needs refinishing. (For the curious—the blue ring at winch-top is a retro-fitted attempt at self-tailing.)

But to date I’ve not succeeded at winch removal. Some of the nuts visible are wedged tightly against adjoining fiberglass that prevents their unscrewing. And after removing those that I can, the winch and base still seem securely fastened. Absent advice/encouragement, I’m now thinking to leave them in place, and finish the winch bases and paint around them as best I can.

Similarly, the coamings aren’t wonderful--note the crack on the forward inside port one:

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But they are reasonably solid, at least for the near term (and sufficiently difficult to replace to make “near term” a long one…). So again, the plan is to strip and sand the coamings in place, and remove only the quarter-round trim strip:

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if easily feasible.

Elsewhere in the cockpit, a couple light metal sheets closing off previously used holes in one side of the footwell have been removed, with the intention of glassing in the holes.

Also removed was this bronze “horn”:

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From its backside, it’s clear it once was connected to something , but now it only opens to the port cockpit locker, in the vicinity of the cranking battery and diesel. In spirit of filling unneeded holes, I plan to glass in this opening also (unless persuaded otherwise).

Here’s another hole I probably will fill in:

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After removing the bronze screw-in cover plate it occurred to me that, although narrow, perhaps the hole is intended as access to the manual bilge pump below. Initially I thought an access hole was redundant with the locker cover immediately aft it, but of course the hole could give access to the pump while keeping the locker closed. (Will check this at the boat.)

Elsewhere around the cockpit: the gauges etc:

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The black rectangle is an old phone plug and I assume can be removed and filled in. The knotmeter is knarly (needle paint peeling) but works, as do the depth gauge and (covered) autopilot. The two center dials are for apparent wind. Presumably the upper is the newer and the other can be removed and filled in, but is there a way to test the gauges first? Should remaining gauges be removed before painting or would masking suffice?

Then there’s the pedestal and binnacle:

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The footwell is pretty crowded with them in place, but it’s a confined and complicated space below also:

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and I’d prefer to avoid difficult reassembly. Any comment?

The emergency tiller cover forward the binnacle probably can be removed without too much trouble:

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In this pic, you also can see the autohelm drive, the VERY THIN box that covers it, and the hot water heater forward. All this makes a crowded port locker. Getting to the underdeck rear of the boat via this locker requires my 6’4” self first to head under aft the locker, and then bring in my feet. Exiting is even more fun…

Eyebrows. Some previous pictures included the cabin eyebrows. Here’s another:

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Initially I planned to remove the eyebrows for refinishing and cleaner painting of the cabin trunk, but doing so would require digging into cabin inner walls to locate screw heads, and possible breakage during removal. Now the thinking is to do as good as possible in place. Again, any comment?

Lastly, the stanchions. Here too I planned a clean removal before painting. Now I don’t think it’s worth effort required. All stanchion bases are solid and secure, and because of that moisture entry doesn’t seem a problem. Removing them would not be easy and require a fair amount of inner woodwork removal. Without stanchions of course there are no lifelines, and the decks are 10+ feet in the air. Taking them out would require, working aft: pulpit nuts are accessible from the anchor locker, next requires some panel removal from the v-berth, next over a cabinet portside and behind fireplace starboard requires ceiling removal, next over upper berths also requires ceiling removal, next (gate stanchions) also requires ceiling removal portside and removal (destruction?) of the chart storage shelf starboard, next is over the cockpit locker mounted fuel tanks and requires their removal. While underside nuts for some of the stanchions already are accessible and more will be for required chainplate work (to be discussed elsewhere), I’m reluctant to give up security provided by lifelines by removing any stanchions. Comments?

One more, the foredeck:

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With another set of hands I should be able to remove the two padeyes and hawsehole, and intend to.

In sum, I’ve come to near standstill on paint preparation, unsure of how to proceed. I would like to put a good finish on the decks. I also would like to ensure I finish the task. Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks, Brian
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Tim
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Re: Preparation for Deck Repainting

Post by Tim »

It's annoying how builders often hide hardware installations so effectively, making them far more difficult to access in the future, but unfortunately that's the way it is, and the prudent restorer must make all efforts--however unsavory--to remove hardware. It is a daunting proposition, but that's what it takes.

Given the visual state of your decks as seen in the photos, and in your descriptions, I'd advise you to remove everything you possibly can. Clearly, someone's earlier painting attempts were a dismal failure, and if you don't take the proper steps now to ensure good preparation (which obviously wasn't done the last time), you're bound to have issues going forward. I think you would regret it if you do not take the time to do the preparation as thoroughly as possible.

Whether or not your hardware is leaking, it's likely that the sealant is due for renewal anyway, and certainly will be some day in the future regardless, and I don't think you can possibly achieve acceptable paint preparation if you are working around any of the current installations. Getting the hardware off now makes the most sense.

If you literally cannot get to certain fasteners, which can often be the case on toerail-mounted tracks and the like (which are usually installed on the deck before the deck is mated with the hull, which then prohibits future access forever), then you may have no choice but to leave that particular hardware in place, but remove everything else. No, it's not necessarily easy, but it's the right way to go about it. Sometimes, removing hardware requires modifications to the interior liners and cabinetry to gain access--not fun, but production boat building methodology often is short-sighted, and one must deal with the consequences later.

On those brackets above your companionway, cut or grind off the screw heads from the outside if you can't get to the nuts within. Or determine if the entire sea hood can be removed, which will then give you access to those nuts. (But it looks like a molded part of the deck from the photos...I can't really tell.)

Your eyebrow may be simply screwed in from the outside, with no nuts within. Pull one of the bungs and see. It's better to remove it if you can, so first determine whether it's screwed or bolted (if you haven't already). But then that goes for everything, particularly once the condition of the deck has deteriorated to the point seen in your photos.
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Quetzalsailor
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Re: Preparation for Deck Repainting

Post by Quetzalsailor »

Ahhh, Brian, is this the NE 38 from Vermont? From a couple years ago for a wonderful price? Congratulations!

Anyway, while lots of your deck hardware looks the same as our 1970 MkIII, some is quite different.

The companionway cover (Chris calls it the 'turtle') should come right off. Ours is simply screwed to the deck; that's how I got the companionway slide apart to refinish it. (Yours does not appear to have the out-turned flange that ours does.) Then the mystery bracket will be childs play. Ours had Teak strips on the three sides that meet the deck; I have not yet replaced them. Perhaps your screws are concealed under paint and filler. Those nuts might be attacked with a box wrench taped to a stick; what a pain!

I think you'll find that the toerails are bolted to the boat and that the genny tracks are bolted through the toerails to the boat. Chris will be able to tell you since he had the side of his rebuilt after a collision. I'd bet that there are relatively few bolts for the toerails under the genny tracks. I fear you'll find that the toerrails are thinned over time from refinishing and that the heads of the bolts are precious close to the surface; ours are.

The coamings do indeed split where they transition from the support of the side decks to cantilevered up. I've sawn out the split and filled it with epoxy. This weekend, I'll be adding stainless steel 'battens' across the crack at the aft end where ours split. You should find, I think, two places on each side where there are drifts within the thickness of the coaming; the top end is concealed under a cap. Ours stop shy of the seat by about 1/2" so I can feel the bottom ends.

I think you'll find that the eyebrows are screwed in from the inside of the house; I have found the ends of the screws on ours when I wooded them.

You have nice deck scuppers; ours are simply sawn slits: pretty tacky.

Take care examining the rudder fittings; older boats had carbon steel; newer had stainless. I think that would be indicative of the chainplate backup plates and maststep reinforcement.
Quetzalsailor
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Re: Preparation for Deck Repainting

Post by Quetzalsailor »

I meant to blather on a bit about the cracks you may find in your deck.

Ours is cracked at the forward end of the house, both sides; starboard forward corner of the cockpit well; along the after end of the cockpit well, both sides, between the lazarette openings and the well. I can no longer ignore these problems; they were on the top of the list when we bought the boat 5 years ago, but were deferred for even greater needs. Additionally, our boat has many filler repairs around companionway trim, both hatches, and between lazarette lid openings and the coamings; I have no idea what was being repaired or even if the repairs are 'original'.

Since our interiors are pretty complete and either great looking or repairable, I will repair the deck from above.

A concern when working around the cockpit/bridge deck is that I think I've seen that some of the PVC electrical conduits are run in the foam core of the deck.

My current intent is to make the cracked areas solid rather than cored, but will have to work out how the stress will affect adjacent areas of original cored structure. Surely, simply repairing in kind will fail. Surely, stiffening with solid construction will simply move the flexure over a bit and cause new cracks.
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Chris Campbell
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Re: Preparation for Deck Repainting

Post by Chris Campbell »

Hi Brian,

Great documentation of your work! And what a job you're doing - I'm really glad to see that you're "not messing around" and are digging in to get things done right. The LeComtes are definitely worth it.

I'll try to be thorough with this reply since much of what you asked are things that I'm somewhat familiar with from my ownership of Weatherbird. Although my knowledge of how to best perform the necessary work won't be anything like as good as some others on this forum, so I'll try to be less vocal about that!

Your sea-hood, or turtle should be removable - they weren't molded in, as Doug has said, but were held down with screws. If yours is different, that's an alteration and you could re-alter, or decide otherwise. If you want to re-alter, cut it off carefully and lay up a new flange to screw to the deck. If you can't get it off I'd agree with Tim's suggestion of grinding off the fittings - especially since you don't know what they're for! I'm all in favour of getting rid of useless stuff on boats.

I've never seen an opening in the cockpit floor to give access to the engine! I guess it increased the room for a replacement diesel, and gave better access - interesting. You can remove the engine instrument cover frame pretty easily also, by the way - it's just a handful of wood screws holding it in place. That'll make restoring the wood easier and painting easier.

I can understand leaving the saloon and forepeak hatch bases - although if there is any chance that there is a leak under them you'll want to rebed. I never had a problem with them on Weatherbird.

The hull deck joint of the NE 38 was glassed over during the initial construction, while the hull was still green, so it's a proper chemical bond and everything was added to the boat after the hull and deck assembly cured (about 5 days, they did it really slow to get ample working time while it was green). So the good news is that you can get at all of the fasteners if you need to. The bad news is that the interior of the boat was then built to cover everything nicely, so getting at those fasteners, as you have pointed out, means dismantling things. Back to the bright side - almost all of the interior is assembled with screws, so you can disassemble without destroying things.

The toerail is through bolted, and where there is no genoa track the bolt heads are bunged. The genoa track is through bolted through the toerail and the deck. It's very strong - it's what prevented a Catalina 36 from coming aboard when we were T-boned by it. I never had any leaks from the hull/deck joint (being glassed over it would be surprising) or from the toerail. Not sure if that's generally true of the boats or not, though - and Tim's advice to rebed while you're at it is absolutely valid. Far better to rebed than to chase down leaks some other time!

I guess your winches aren't the LeComte ones, they'd be stainless, not bronze, I think. Although it's expensive it might be worth splurging on some self-tailing replacements rather than rechroming - those ones are pretty old, and self-tailing is such a treat. Weatherbird had a pair of Andersen 46's on what you're calling the secondary pads (she didn't have another set, so for me they were the primaries) and it let me singlehand with ease. Mainsheet just in front of the binnacle, jib sheet just outboard from there. Great setup. You should be able to dismantle the winch without removing it to get at the fasteners from above, shouldn't you? Surely it is possible to clean and lubricate the winch without removing it from the boat?

I was lucky with coamings, they were fine on my boat. Some previous owner had obviously replaced part of them, though - the forward half didn't quite match the aft half. Didn't bother me a bit, but LeComte would have never let that happen, so someone did some work. I'm guessing that it was the aft half that was replaced - no one in their right mind would take on recreating that lovely curve at the front of the cockpit unless they absolutely had to. I take that back - there are people who live for bending wood...

The quarter round at the bottom of your coamings didn't exist on Weatherbird - there was a small gap that collected dust (1/2" or so high). Never bothered me, I think it might actually have made the boat seem cleaner since the dust was able to migrate out of sight!

Interesting bronze horn! No idea what it did, but surely you'll find somewhere to mount it - if not on the boat then at home (dryer duct cover?)!

You're right about the hole above the bilge pump in the cockpit ahead of the starboard locker. On mine the bilge pump could only be pumped through that opening - there was a handle on a lanyard in the starboard locker in easy reach, you'd unscrew that cover and stick the handle in and pump. Worked nicely. I always wondered how I'd feel about watching green water pour down that hole, though, if I were pumping for dear life in a storm... Thankfully I never found out.

Remove the guages before painting - easy to do, and as Tim has said, remove everything!

Removing the binnacle is very easy, surprisingly. You need to detach the steering cables from the quadrant, and drag them up through the hole in the cockpit, but it's not hard at all. There are only four bolts holding it down, they're easy to remove. If they're original, they're also made by welding together two shorter bolts!
Brian wrote:Getting to the underdeck rear of the boat via this locker requires my 6’4” self first to head under aft the locker, and then bring in my feet. Exiting is even more fun…
Have you considered putting in a hatch on the lazarette? Weatherbird had a lovely one that I could climb in and out of. Bill Tripp and Dolf LeComte didn't want a hatch there since that would encourage storing stuff there, and weight in the ends is bad, particularly with long overhangs. But if you're not racing, it sure is convenient storage, and how much can fenders and docklines weigh, anyway?
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Doug's right on with the eyebrow attachment - wood screws from inside. If you're taking off all of the plywood on the cabin sides it'll be easy to remove them (and probably replace them with new, since you'll probably break them in the process) - and if you're not, then leave 'em and mask 'em. they're not going to be the source of any leaks, I'm pretty sure. Never seen an eyebrow on the front of the cabin trunk, interesting.

Stanchion bases are notorious for leaking - if there is a single piece of hardware on deck that I think should be removed and rebedded regularly, it is them. Getting at the nuts from the underside wasn't bad on Weatherbird - your description makes it sound worse than I remember it. Everything that's in your way should be removable, and it should all be possible with a screwdriver. Granted I didn't have a fuel tank in my cockpit lockers, mine was in the keel. As far as the security of the stanchions on deck while on the hard - I know what you're saying, but really, lifelines serve mostly to invert you on your way to the floor if you're headed that way anyway. They're too low to actually stop you. You might - might - grab onto a lifeline on your way by and thus save yourself, but the toerail will do just as well, probably, and is much stronger. Not to mention the NE 38 has very wide and accomodating side decks. I'm currently working on my Yankee 30 with no stanchions, and while it was slightly unnerving at first, I'm completely used to it now and wouldn't worry about it. Better quickly add a disclaimer that this is just my opinion, of course!

Re: the wiring conduit in the decks, as far as I know there are two conduits - one in the cabin top that takes wires to the overhead light in the saloon, and one on the starboard side that runs from inside the instrument cabinet to under the cockpit.

Keep up the good work, both on getting the job done, and on sharing your efforts in words and pictures!

Cheers,

Chris
BS Smith
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Re: Preparation for Deck Repainting

Post by BS Smith »

Many thanks to stalwart responders to this thread and the other. Spirits were at low ebb when posts were sent, and the responses are helpful and encouraging. A previously unsaid additional reluctance to push further into boat disassembly has been that the NE38’s interior is the only part of the boat that still looks good. Taking it to pieces will ensure my “village idiot” status to all observers. Oh well…

Could write more in response to points made, but today’s root canal limits enthusiasm. So will just throw a couple bits for now. Doug asked which boat this is--hull #82, MkI yawl (refitted w/ MkII mast), “Norumbega” by its previous owner. According to Chris’s registry, second NE38 built and perhaps oldest surviving.

Bargain boat from Vt? Ummm, no, though pre-(finally obvious to all)financial meltdown, it seemed a good deal at the time; now more a large amount for a large project. Boat was brokered by Art at LeComte. Previously posted Yachtworld and survey details at:

http://www.notworldbank.org-a.googlepages.com/home

Art very nicely provided a list of all the boat’s owners, provenance if you will. I’d met and gone over the boat with its previous owner (who’d had it since ’85), but was unable to net-find any of the others, save the first. Posted a letter about what I was up to with the boat and he kindly responded in kind, recounting how then-Goodly Fere had won Marblehead-Halifax. (How many folks w/ boats circa ’62 have corresponded with the original owner?!) Anyway, additional time passed before I realized I’d seen Goodly Fere in an old Yachting ad preserved on Chris’s site. Was happy to share it with the first owner as it seemed he no longer had a copy. With thanks to Chris:

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Regards,

BS
BS Smith
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Re: Preparation for Deck Repainting

Post by BS Smith »

A link to Chris's readable version of the ad:

http://www.lecomteowners.com/images/sto ... _Frere.jpg
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