Coamings

[BS Smith]

Northeast 38s have long (9.5’) and pretty coamings that curve and split on their forward portion:



At least they’re supposed to be pretty. #82’s were dead sounding along their lower portion, and after removing in-and-outboard quarter round base trim, it was clear the coamings were rotted and needed replacement.

Each side was secured by two rows of 25 1” oval headed bronze screws, mounted from inside cockpit lockers and the cabin out into the coamings. Before getting access to those in cockpit lockers, port and starboard 24 gallon fuel tanks had to be removed—itself a job as the plastic tanks installed to replace the leaking original in bilge are a very tight fit, and of course had been filled at last season’s end.

After removing in-row screws it was a puzzle how to remove the forward end of the coamings. Removal of cabin trunk paneling revealed a couple screws on either side of the boat, but clearly something else was affixed. Coamings were intended to be removed intact for future template use so simply sawing through the forward portion if a piece of coaming continued into the trunk was to be avoided. (Observers may question how a fellow who can’t even dissemble his boat’s intricate coamings ever hopes to install new ones…)

I put out a call for help, and Quetzalsailor and fellow NE38 owner from France Philippe very generously advised—in essence, full speed ahead. (Thanks, gentlemen!) A stiff putty knife was used to separate the coaming from the “triangular block” in between the two sides of the curved and split portion and bronze screws found (12 per side) were hacksawed through.

Fair enough, but a small mystery—how did the screws get in there?! That is, they came out from the triangular block into the coaming. But they weren’t screwed through the block; it seems they perhaps were screwed out through the exterior wall of a then empty block, and the block subsequently was filled with “something.” The block isn’t resin-like and translucent, rather white-ish and opaque. I’m sure a different method will be used for installing the new coamings (just at the moment not sure what it will be…). Here's the block (something new to bump into!):



(Readers also can note I succumbed to previous forum advice and removed the eyebrows. As advised, they were comparatively easy—screwed out through the cabin trunk ceiling—but I realized too late a smoother putty knife was in order. Pleased to report however all eyebrows were removed intact!)

A larger discovery was, ho ho!, the coamings weren’t solid, rather laminated with teak or mahogany facing. And in their current state, very unsolid:





Question: any reason why the laminated approach shouldn’t used for the new coamings? Clearly the removed ones failed, but it seems the original coamings were solid and they too failed at some point (much of course has happened since 1962…). Using plywood would be cheaper and perhaps facilitate bending the forward sections. (The removed coamings had a solid half round on top and a solid piece covering the block and curved portion.) Perhaps the removed coamings weren’t edge epoxied when installed, and doing so would yield better results. Opinions welcomed.

One lesson learned when pulling the coamings was—if a screw looks corroded, it likely is not just on the surface. Perhaps half the screws distingrated during removal.

Anyway, here's where we are now:



Regards,

Brian

[Hirilondë]

I am surprised that oval head screws were used in a concealed location. They are normally used as a decorative version of a flat head screw. I would have used round head unless there was some real need for a flush finish, then I would have used flat head and counter sunk them flush.

I would never use plywood for combings. It doesn't bend much if any easier than solid wood, when it is bent the load on the joints of the layers can help cause delamination later, it is certainly much more susceptible to breaking down faster, and the chances of breaking through the veneer during use is quite great and not very repairable. Tight curves in combings are sometimes laminated in place or to a form when they can't be achieved by simple bending or steaming. But for that it is done with layers of the teak or mahogany and epoxy. The layers are bent before gluing thus you are in effect making curved plywood to the needed shape.

I am still trying to envision the details of your combings to figure out how I would build them. Another picture or 2 of the forward end detail would help.

[BS Smith]

Dave,

Always interested in what you have to say. Here are a couple shots of the coamings when the boat still was intact (not especially illustrative, but at least for me therapeutic…):





Three shots of the stb coaming:







Where it goes:



And the covering piece for the fwd split section (port side):



The coaming is 15” at its highest fwd point and 10” at the aft end; the lower portion of board is secured against the 4.5” rise from cockpit seating to side deck.

Thanks,

BS

[Quetzalsailor]

What fun! These LeComtes were soooo differently built. Our coamings are quite different than yours. Ours are a solid plank of Teak, pssteamed to the required shape. Ours is quite hollow where yours has that lump of filler. Ours do not extend the whole way down to the seat.

Hirilonde's always on point comments to the fore: I don't think you'd be laminating plywood; I think you'd be making Teak plywood to the curve. Four lamina 1/4" thick might be pretty doable and if done with epoxy and care taken with the oily wood, you probably will get good service. Easier would be the face lamina in 1/4" Teak and the core in, say, 1/8" Mahogany (which I know you can buy). Heck, I might even put some fiberglass in the core (I did on my companionway). Either way, you'd need a cap to hide the lamina. Steaming that plank might be a nightmare for an amateur! And you'd want to do it only twice and perfectly. Requires a mould and maybe bending straps on the outside of the curve (good articles in back issues of WoodenBoat).

Either way, be sure to put the drifts in to prevent cracking between that portion of the coaming that's supported and that portion that extends up into harms way. I'd be tempted to put drifts in while laminating, if I could be sure to get a nice smooth curve. I certainly would not put them in before steam bending! I'll post my fix for my cracks one of these days.

Put your eyebrows back on. Yeah they're just a fake for the good old days of wood house sides and canvas topped houses, but...they make these old boats.

[Chris Campbell]

I seem to recall that another LeComte owner (fusto?) discovered that the coamings were solid teak with cuts made longitudinally into them at the front end to make it possible to do the bending. I know that another owner tried building boxes and steaming a pair without cutting into lamina and failed at it - maybe a more expert woodworker could get a solid piece to make that curve, but I know I'd be trying by slicing it into at least four if not more layers first. Making a mold will of course be crucial - even with the slices that curve will be hard to achieve. Beautiful and satisfying once you get there, though!

The coamings on Weatherbird had no obvious drifts as Doug has described - perhaps they were there, just buried.

Weatherbird had two caps on top of the coaming - one covered the inside of the curve up to the cabin sides - would have been over the filled area on Norumbega, Weatherbird had that area open - and one covering the rest of the coaming, with a round on top. I believe that second cap was there to blend the two pieces of the coaming together - someone had replaced the after-portions but not the forward ones (at least I assume they hadn't done the forward ones - the after is easy, if you're doing the hard do the easy, too - not the other way 'round), but I don't know for sure, it was just observation from the outside, I never had them off or messed with them other than to varnish.

That mystery block may have been put there to provide support for the curve if it was failing, or to avoid the hassle of stripping the varnish in that pocket it filled (I know I struggled with it on Weatherbird) - but it wasn't present on my NE38.

I'll add my vote for replacing the eyebrows (which perhaps you were planning to do anyway, and had just taken them off before you paint, or to strip and varnish them?) - in addition to making the boat seem more "woody", they serve to reduce the visual height of the dog house, making the boat look longer and lower - which in my books is good!

You do have some work ahead - good luck! Of course so do I...

Cheers,

Chris

[Hirilondë]

Do you have any pictures that are slightly larger? At first I thought they were thumbnails.

Here is a crude sketch that show another way to get the drastic curve at the forward end of a combing:

[BS Smith]

(1) Sorry for the small images. Here are the same in a larger size:

Shots of the coamings when the boat still was intact:





Three shots of the stb coaming (note also both hatches have been completely removed for rebuilding):







Where it goes (fyi--the unfinished plywood in the locker is where the stb plastic fuel tank sits):



And the covering piece for the fwd split section (port side):



(2) Yes, eyebrows only have been removed for varnish and paint purposes.

Regards,

BS

[Chris Campbell]

Good idea, Hirilondë - that would be much easier than bending, although I guess it wouldn't give continuous grain lines. I suspect that after a few attempts at bending a person might not care too much about that, though!

Here's a gallery on the LeComte Owners' site that shows some of the efforts that the owners of Nordmark went through to replace their coamings: Nordmark Projects - unfortunately there are no pictures of the outcome...

Here's what they said about the coaming replacement project:

Then came that project that gives you that sick tummy feeling. Those once beautiful long curved slender cockpit combings. The forward 4 feet, which is curved and filled with plywood, had rotted out. $500 bought 3 teak planks. Enough to do the 2 sides and the back under the bent up mainsail traveler. After a great deal of advice and a lot of head scratching we built a steam box 8 feet long, 3 feet wide and 18 inches high. A wedge was made to drive the forward 4 feet apart while they were steaming in the box. It sort of worked. Success should not be judged upon the results of the first attempt of a difficult complex problem or so I say especially when you can’t see what’s happening. Anyhow plan B came into effect and the box and wedge were used to form a laminate, which was epoxied on to the outside of the curve. The result: better than original combings that will outlast Jen and I and probably the next owners. To finish off, we installed a new mainsail traveler.

Sounds hopeful, doesn't it!