Bristol 27 rehab

Post photos and descriptions of your ongoing projects here. No project is too big or too small.
Post Reply
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

OK so how do you know if you will have a water tight deck hull joint?

I have to paint the deck and hull and given my experience in car restoration that would mean removing the all the trim and hardware to do it right.

So In order to repaint the deck I figure i remove all the hardware, ports, stanchions and rails. Im also planning on changing the just screws to thru-bolt construction on the deck hull join.

Given that how do i know the hull deck joint is solid and waterproof? What is the process for making sure that is waterproof before rebedding the rails? Keep in mind that the bristols had solid FIberglass about five inches inboard. should i still grout all the holes and fill with epoxy filler?

Ive read most of the rehab posts but most are either or propositions (Im an avid lurker). Since Im going to the trouble of rebedding how do i evaluate or redo the hull deck joint? I've seen the fiberglass over version and im leaning that way just to ensure a water tight join.

Thanks
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Rachel »

I don't know if every Bristol 27 is the same, and I have not looked up close at one of the later versions (which yours is), but from all reports the hull-deck joint has been a trouble spot.

I don't know that there is any way to *really* be sure about the mechanically fastened joint's water-tightness when you are on land. I say that because you can spray with a high-pressure hose all day long and have it be tight as a drum, and then the first time you beat to weather (and the hull flexes just a tad - they all do), you (may) have a leak.

Personally, I would prefer to fiberglass the joint together. Then you know you are solid and aren't going to have leaks at the joint. I don't know how "gutted" you are going to have the boat, but you could do it from inside, if you have access (can't remember if the B-27 has a cabin liner).

Although, then you still have the toerail, which probably wants mechanical fastening. But still, I have a preference for a fiberglassed hull-deck joint.

Rachel
avd155

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by avd155 »

The toe rail becomes an immediate problem if you want to glass the joint, since it requires a bunch of fasteners to stay attached, meaning all that new glass gets new holes. Not really worth it to re-apply a toe-rail if you're going to do a hull to deck joint.

I found the only answer to making it really watertight leads to glassing the joint and avoiding any holes through the joint (probably that means of a raised bulwark). I ended up glassing my hull-to-deck joint from the exterior. First I ground of all the way along the deck and the topside (just above the cove stripe). Then, worked with 2 other guys to apply 2 layers of cloth (4" biax + 6" biax) plus 3 fairing layers, all laid up on the same day so everything got a chemical bond

Image

I didn't work from the inside with glass, but as the interior building goes along, the joint is getting "bonus" glass on the interior, since much of my tabbing for interior bulkheads also lay-up over the hull-to-deck joint.
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Rachel »

I agree with you on the toerail bolts; however I would say that I would still rather have a glassed hull/deck joint and then a bolted on toerail than not glass the joint at all. At least you can remove a toerail and re-bed it. Still a big job, but much less big than separating the hull and deck to re-bed them.

As you say though, something like a raised bulwark can be even better (if it works with one's overall plan).
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

Im definitely not thinking about separating the joint. and to be honest it doesnt look like its leaking now, but like you say who knows what it does out when sailing. It will be interesting to see what happens with a pressure sprayer but the perfectionist in me say pull it all up its 43 years old.

on a related note How do you bend the metal angle toe rails? Ive got access to the rails off a s2 they are scrapping and while i know they are not as pretty i would rather have them over the mahogany. Any experience here? Mine are pretty beat up.
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Rachel »

Are those the perforated aluminum toerails? They may not look like teak, but boy are they handy!

I have not installed them, but from what I have read I think you start at one end of the boat and then just "force" them to bend as you go and fasten. I think I remember Jerry Montgomery (the M-17 had those rails) saying that it was a two-or-more person/cursing job.

Also, those rails are rather expensive new, so if you like them and have some at your disposal that could be pretty nice.

I think Christopher's Bristol 29 has them, if you want to get an idea of how they would look (he has photos of his boat posted here on the forum).
Hirilondë
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 1317
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:50 am
Boat Name: Hirilondë
Boat Type: 1967 Pearson Renegade
Location: Charlestown, RI

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Hirilondë »

Rachel wrote:......... you start at one end of the boat and then just "force" them to bend as you go and fasten. I think I remember Jerry Montgomery (the M-17 had those rails) saying that it was a two-or-more person/cursing job. .
Yup. I don't know Jerry, but if he was cursing as he went then he was doing it properly ;-)

Either they will take to the curve or they won't. Do a complete dry fit first. When you are convinced everything is ready for goop just do it all over again. On top of the cursing you should finish the job wearing as much goop as stayed on the boat. Wear clothes you were about to throw away.
Dave Finnegan
builder of Spindrift 9N #521 'Wingë'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gresham’s Law of information: Bad information drives out good. No matter how long ago a correction for a particular error may have appeared in print or online, it never seems to catch up with the ever-widening distribution of the error.
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

LOL, is anything on a old boat not a 2 person cursing job?

The marina has a mid eighties maybe 27 to 30 s2 that is being scrapped and offered at salvage. I didnt have time to go over her when i was there to drop off the boat but first thing is to look over for any improvements like winches hardware. Hope she has a bunch of goodies, some cheap opening ports would be good.

Mine looks to be all original and could use some updating and this would really help with cost.
User avatar
Rachel
Master of the Arcane
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:59 pm

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Rachel »

Hirilondë wrote: Wear clothes you were about to throw away.
Hair too ;)
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

part of the reason I no longer have long hair! (no pun intended)
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

I went to the boat yesterday to actually look it over and pull out the sails and search through the boat lockers.

I got a pleasant surprise. There is a brand new 80 or 100 jib and what looks to be in new condition 140 or 150 Jib as well!

Got lucky there. there were also some soft but useable older jibs

The main sail is in pretty poor condition but considering it is the original Im amazed it is still in one piece. Its got the original bristol logo and numbers so it sure looks like it was the original.

My wife quipped we were lucky to have such "collectible antique sail, Must be worth a lot of money." ROFL

All the interior bulkheads are as solid as i remember.

I think this week im gonna strip all the hardward off the deck and empty her out and get to the real work.

The Halyards are stainless wire and i was going to convert them over to rope. I was thinking 3/8s for the halyards and possibly 7/16 for the sheets (just for ease of handling)?
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

Well after a long adhd inspired hiatus while i dealt with a new baby and a new job yada yada, finally got serious and got a bunch of parts for the boat. On the way, is new seacocks, thru hulls and more epoxy than i can use as well as new running rigging and blocks. I ordered a new main a year ago with the strong tides mast track which im going to install with a mylar 150 from north. im adding two lewmar 16 ocean series self tailers for now for the head sails. pretty stroked to get thngs going. ill try to get some pics up.

Josh
Lloyd
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 1:04 pm
Boat Name: Ella Marie
Boat Type: Bristol 27
Location: Pelahatchie. Ms

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Lloyd »

Would love to see pictures.
Lloyd
Bristol 27, #200
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

I really need to get some up. Im so illiterate to posting im still trying to figure out how to get them setup on a photo site so i can post them here.

On a related note, I got the tides mast track on today and pullled 5 thru hulls and the transducer. I managed to get the marine toilet out and pulled all the doors and one of the walls. Also managed to get some fittings measured and ordered the last of my blocks.

I got all the fixures off the walls and the trash out so she is all prepped for a little sanding and painting in the interior before i get her in the water.

Im putting off anything major since she is structurally sound so i can sail her this season.

I got the last of my materials today so im hoping to have her in the water in 3 to 4 weeks.
Lloyd
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 1:04 pm
Boat Name: Ella Marie
Boat Type: Bristol 27
Location: Pelahatchie. Ms

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Lloyd »

You can post photos to this forum from your computer with out using another web hosting photo site. Copy the photos you want to post to a file, then resize them to under 256 KB in size. I use Paint by right clicking the photo, hit Edit, Hit Resize. Change Horizontal to --say 25%-- the Vertical will usually change itself. Hit OK, X out of Paint, Hit save. You should be back at your photos then. Check the size of the photo you just changed to make sure it is small enough. If not do it again, if it is ok move on to the next one. When they are all done go to the forum and post them. You do that by hitting the Browse button, find your file with the photo you want to post, click it. A file name should then be in the box by the Browse button. Click the Add the file button. The forum should then upload your photo, it will tell you if it is to big. If it is ok a new button will be under the Message body box. It will say Place Inline. Click in your post where you want it, then click the Place Inline button.Click the Preview button to see how it turned out. Then Submit if you like it.
Lloyd
Bristol 27, #200
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

Thanks for the tutorial. first the boat:
boat2.jpg
She's a bit rough but a good solid boat. I started by cutting away the v berth wood so i could patch her from the inside.
cutaway.jpg
I then ground out both holes.
ground out .jpg
i did sand them flat later and ground out the smaller one more as well.

unfortunately right about then my generator refused to run so i turned to glassing the first hole as it was pretty well prepped. I taped wax paper over it from the outside and then a for sale sign to hold the shape, and then laid the first three layers of 1708 biax and waited for them to kick. more questions on what kick means later.
biax.jpg
While i waited i figured i would go on to other areas of the boat. everything like lights and fixtures are shot so i have been removing them so i can refinish the bulkheads and paint lockers etc. Hre are some interior pics
interior1.jpg
interior2.jpg
In addition to pulling the fixtures i have been pulling some items like seat backs to make it easier to paint and here is what i found.
interior3.jpg
interior4.jpg
as i was pulling it up i found it by my prybar simply falling through the wood it was so rotten.

Most of this was still fastened with the original bronze screws. Man did they build this boat solid. I tried to pull them all out but some were so hidden and glased over ive been forced to simply cut or pry most out. Still is neat to see bronze screws though. Its a good thing im insanely small framed because i had to actually climb into the cockpit locker to pull out the screws holding in the dinette seat back and my bilge pump was in the way to. I spent about 45 minutes in the locker today. Not a pleasurable experience in case anyone was wondering. I highly recommend pulling out the hasp that locks the locker top btw. I read about how spurr spent a couple hours locked in a locker so i pulled mine off before i climbed in. That would suck given the temp today.

Anyway. gives me an excuse to open it up which will actually help out with painting the lockers.

Overall considering that the only thing rotten is the vertical dinette plywood im thinking im doing well. All of this wood is 45 years old!

I continue to be more impressed with bristol and i feel pretty lucky to have foudn as solid of a boat as I found.

I have some questions but will move them to the next post
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

So up until now most of my work has been as a mechanic. I was a helicopter mechanic and restored a couple cars and worked on a lot of motorcycles than i can count. So most of my theory on sailboats has been academic. I learned a lot today.

Mostly I learned i dont know what "kicked" means. I kept checking the mat but was unsure of when that was. I was thinking it was when it was hard but still sticky. I found sticky and i felt hard but never at the same time. I left it alone and figure i would lay ore later since i was unsure. So what does kicked mean? I was trying to figure out when to lay the next batch and came up short.

Also i have a newfound respect for this whole grinding thing. Man did that suck. pretty thick laminate though. Its 3/4 of an inch.

Also met a wonderful pair of folks that have a gorgeous bristol 29. Overall days dont get much better than today.
Lloyd
Skilled Systems Installer
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 1:04 pm
Boat Name: Ella Marie
Boat Type: Bristol 27
Location: Pelahatchie. Ms

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Lloyd »

The pictures look good. Glad I could help. It looks like I am a few steps ahead of you in the rebuild of my Bristol 27. I think I am through with most of the tearing out phase that you are in now. Get used to the grinding and sanding lots more to come.

About the kicking part. I think its when it has set up enough that it is not going to move on its own. Kind of like a soft putty and very sticky.

It's looking like you are diggingg right in. Hope you keep it up and enjoy the transformation of her.
Lloyd
Bristol 27, #200
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

thanks! yea im pretty much just working all my days off on her. Digging right in seems the only way to learn i've found. Ive got a lot of ideas and they are slowly working out. The couple that own the bristol 29 seemed to think the teak would restore so that is good as well. we will see. I have the door and wall from the head at home so i am going to experiment before i try the full bulkheads.

Of course now i have to order a new generator to get back to work but hey who said it was problem free.

good to see your boat is coming along well too.
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

No pics today but i did get some stuff done, although not as much as id like since my generator refused to run today. I had plenty to do though and got lots of little jobs taken care of.

I got about 6 more layers of the biax on one of the holes. While it was hardening i scraped the last of the barnacles off of her, luckily that went pretty easy.

Unfortunately the sheaves i ordered from garhauer are too small and the next size up are too big, so ill prolly have a machine shop make me some. I got all new blocks for the main sheet though and they look great.

I also got my new running rigging from cajun yesterday. Its been like christmas here lately with all the packages.

After that i pulled the cockpit coamings and brought them home. They looked pretty bad. probably hadnt been touched in 15 years at least. I figured i would take a whack at restoring them anyway. I started out with a palm sander with 80 grit but no go on that so switched to 40, and then got out the rotary orbital with 40 grit. That finally started getting somewhere. took me about a 1.5 hours but they finally look decent but not quite uniform so ill have to get some cleaner. hopefully it will make the color uniform before i go back to sanding them.

I also sanded the compression post and the door to the head. I used 120 but switched to 80 which worked well. I ran out of 120 discs though so tomorrow ill have to get some more. Ill probably start on the drawers and the cabinet doors tomorrow.

I know the teak bulk heads look red in the picture but its the white balance on the camera. They are actually a yellowish. Will the cleaner and the teak oil return it to the reddish color? My door outside frame sanded to a nice reddish but the interior squares are the same light yellowish. I was really wanting something more like what loyds look like, only in a satin. or can i just use normal old teak oil on the interior?

I know its been beat to death and i've read a lot on the subject but i'm leaning heavily towards cetol natural teak. Will it give me the reddish brown im looking for on the bulkheads since they are so bleached out? I also read about cabot timber oil as well? any feed back?

Is it the cleaner that brings back the red or is it the oiling?

Thanks

josh
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

Another day of sanding. I had the door to the head, drawers, locker doors, and the compression post to work on today as well as the cockpit coamings.

I had already got most of the sanding on the door done and the cockpit coaming had been fairly well stirpped with 40 grit paper.

Here is what i started out with:
drawers2.jpg
door.jpg
drawers and doors.jpg
I sanded them down with 120 and 220 grit paper and then i stained one drawer with mahogany which turned out way too dark so i just oiled the rest. You can see on the door and the post what i mean about having two types of wood. I think the insets are teak and the frame is mahogany maybe? same with the compression post?
door3.jpg
post1.jpg
The picture really warms it up. the next post picture shows it better.
post1.jpg
Most of the boat is this lighter yellowish which i was told was teak.

this picture is close to the actual color but its a bit lighter in real life
locker doors.jpg
Im not a huge fan of the coloring so everyone take a collective gasp and shudder, im going to stain it more to the posts color so i did a drawer in mahogany.
drawer4.jpg
Its a bit too dark so i lemon oiled everything and picked up some cherry stain which i think will be the color i am looking for.

I also put barkeepers friend on my cocpkit coamings. i havent sanded beyond 40 grit yet, but after the treatment here they are.
coamings.jpg
its hard to see but their are still some lack of uniformity, but i was out of steam so i cleaned and went and went and saw my little helper.
daddys little helper.jpg
Ill get back to the rest on sunday.
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

Another Three long days of sanding. I went back to the boat and took off the rest of the wood trim. It just keeps appearing, but i finally got it all out. I disassembled the step in to the boat as well and brought that home, the hatch boards and the board that holds them in. I brought the table home too.

I also disassembled the drawers and sanded, then stained the frames, and will be replacing the bottoms. the facings screw off so i took them off as well, just for ease of refinishing.

It took me about 6 hours thursday to get the hatch boards and bracket board sanded down and i got the cockpit coamings all through 220 grit paper.

I went to lowes but struck out on oxalic acid crystals so i might wind up ordering those online.

Today i sanded the rest of the trim pieces down and scuffed the laminate on the tabletop and the step so i can replace that. I also resanded the drawer facings and all the locker drawers from and back thru 220grit as well so hopefully the rough sanding on the wood is all done, other than the bulkheads of course.

I put about three coats of polyurethane on the compression post but made the mistake of shaking it on the last, which put air bubbles in it so i will have to sand it, which i would have anyway. Wont make that mistake again. I sanded each coat with 220 and after the next coat of poly i think i may go up to 400. Its already showing a mirror finish.

My door took one coat of the poly but it was so dry it just sucked it up and didnt show a gloss at all.

All in all things are coming along well. ill try to get some pics up later of my results.

Im going back and forth between laminating the bulkheads for a more herreshoff look or staining and putting super high gloss on them.

What do you guys think? im afraid the wood will dominate the interior and make it seem dark and small whereas a white laminate will open it up a bit.
triton318
Master Varnisher
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:34 pm
Boat Name: Dove
Boat Type: Pearson Triton
Location: Hayes, VA

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by triton318 »

It's all a matter of personal taste, but I can say that I've never regretted doing my Triton in white on the inside. Whenever I look at pictures of old boats like the Triton in their original configuration, with all the dark wood and dark plastic laminate on the bulkheads, I tremble. It's so dark and confining. A white, Herreshoff-style interior really makes it bright and airy.
Jay
Dove, Pearson Triton #318
Hayes, VA
Crazer
Topside Painter
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:07 pm
Boat Name: Clio
Boat Type: Rhodes Swiftsure 33
Location: Annapolis, MD

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by Crazer »

I couldn't agree more about the interior finish. I find a white interior with bright trim to be pitch perfect, especially on an old (narrow, low) boat. It does wonders for the feeling of openness and comfort. I find a dark interior confining and, in the summer or in warmer climates, incredibly hot and stuffy.

One of my favorite interiors was on a Triton that had had some custom features added by Pearson. One was white laminate on the forward bulkhead. On my Triton I plan to copy that interior exactly since that one change made a huge difference in the livability of the interior. Indeed, on Tritons with the "wood" laminate on the bulkheads it does dominate the interior and make it look cheap. Of course, as has been said, it is all a matter of personal taste, but as long as you're asking for opinions... ;)
As eccentric as my boat.

Rhodes Swiftsure 33
SV Clio
ghostwriter247
Master Varnisher
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:14 pm
Boat Name: The Celtic Cross
Boat Type: 67 bristol 27
Location: Iowa

Re: Bristol 27 rehab

Post by ghostwriter247 »

so i tried to pull out the one board to replace the settee seat but still kept running into really solid build so it went from this
settee1.jpg
but it was getting pretty hard to pull out so
settee1.jpg
and after that it just looked so easy to do work like painting and grinding and such it went to this:
interior open.jpg
I figured since i was going to refinish them anyway, why do it in place. Of course now that i have all this out i figure might as well revert to my original plan and just get it redone.

So at this point i figure i might as well pull out the vberth as well and build in a water tank and make the bed flush with the bulk heads.

I was thinking i was going to place the battery box down low just forward of the bulkheads with the integral water tank behind that.

There was just a little bit of rot on the rear bulkhead so i ground it out to see how bad.
rear bulkhead.jpg
not too bad. i thought about scarfing in a piece but i think instead i will simply build up some layers of glass as i retab it to the hull.

This one shows the scope of it a bit better.

I Got the bulkheads home and managed to get them sanded, and overall they look pretty good. they are a bit scarred up so i will prolly go with the laminate.

rear bulkhead2.jpg
I also spent probably two days grinding out the tabbing on the pieces and sanding down the hull.

Im not sure what to do with the tabbing. im going to tab in the bulkheads and just for ease i will epoxy the laminate to the wood.

My choices are to put the laminate on, leaving a 2 inch strip all the way around for the tabbing or laminate them all the way out and scrub a strip around the edges for the tabbing. Im leaning towards laminating the whole area since i will be epoxying them on and then scrubbing the edges so the tabbing will epoxy on. it should be a strong tabbing since the laminate is epoxied as well yes?
Attachments
settee2.jpg
Post Reply