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I recently added 100' of G4 1/4" chain to my anchor rode. That, combined with a 22lb Bruce, and 300' of nylon rode on the end of the chain, should see me good for most anchoring situations around here in a 27' boat.
With 110 lbs of chain/anchor I'm starting to think about a windlass. My options so far are:
manual or power
horizontal or vetical
I favour a manual setup, and saw a nice looking unit at the local marine supply: a Muir VM500. Having no experience with windlasses I'm looking for the pros and cons of the different choices available.
Thanks!
Manual ones are slower than death, but reliable and don't use any ship's power. If you go manual, I'd say a double-acting one (i.e. lifts chain on both the back and forward stroke) would be required unless you like spending your whole day cranking an anchor. At best, even double-acting manual winches are very slow and not great for daily use, in my opinion. (All based on hearsay, not actual experience, I should disclaim.)
Electric ones are all across the board in terms of longevity, power consumption, and user-friendliness, but unless you have a real dearth of power on board, I'd go for the electric. The idea is to save work, not simply shift the work from one part of the body to another. I don't have a windlass, but I'd not consider a manual one myself, though at first read they seem like a good idea.
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I don't have a windlass either. We carry 75 feet of G4 and a 22 pound Claw as our bower. I have no difficulties hauling anchor manually (and I'm 67) nor does my 5 '2" 110 pound wife.
Any heavier and we'd most likely be looking into some sort of windlass, but so far we've really not seen the need.
Oh- and I have hauled that stuff up when we had anchored in 38 feet of water too.
What I would love to add and I'm looking for the right one, is some sort of chain stopper up there. I'd like one of those with a pawl that clicks down from gravity when you relax the load, and can be flipped up when letting chain out. But I'm also considering one made from a stainless angle, with just a slot in the top so a link can be put in there. The intent of course is to hold the chain while you are hauling it in, NOT to hold the anchoring load- for that I always transfer to a chain hook and nylon snubber.
I've lived with a manual windlass on two different boats; we probably anchored an average of 250 times per year, for a couple of years or so. This was on 30-32 foot heavy-ish boats. The 30-er had a 35# CQR with a SL 555 windlass, and the 32-footer had a 45# CQR with the same type of windlass.
I thought it was great, and I would have a manual windlass again (in fact, I'm fixing up a Lofrans Royal that came off a big boat in favor of an electric). I needed a windlass to deal with those anchors/that chain, and I liked that it was manual and there was no worry about electricity, battery power, etc. It also came in handy for things like kedging and hoisting aloft.
There is one situation in which an electric would have been marvelous, and that's when you've come into a crowded anchorage, sussed out your spot, and dropped the hook; then the boat settles back and you think "Gee, I wish we were 15 yards further to port..." Ugh, then it's a pain to haul all the chain back up and start over. Don't even talk to me about the times the second drop still doesn't seem right. On the other hand, we got good at doing it right the first time...
Peter, you might consider the Lofrans Royal for your boat, should you decide to go manual. In principle, I'm not a fan, because I don't like the idea of the aluminum used -- I'd rather have a nice, big bronze ABI. But when you look at the weight of the bronze ones, and then think of the bow of a smaller boat, the aluminum looks less awful.
I should mention that I've never actually used an electric windlass, so I don't have that as a basis for comparison.
I've lived with a manual windlass on two different boats; we probably anchored an average of 250 times per year, for a couple of years or so. This was on 30-32 foot heavy-ish boats. The 30-er had a 35# CQR with a SL 555 windlass, and the 32-footer had a 45# CQR with the same type of windlass.
How do you find the other manual windlasses compare to the Simpson Lawrence Seatiger 555?
CharlieJ wrote:I don't have a windlass either. We carry 75 feet of G4 and a 22 pound Claw as our bower. I have no difficulties hauling anchor manually (and I'm 67) nor does my 5 '2" 110 pound wife.
Any heavier and we'd most likely be looking into some sort of windlass, but so far we've really not seen the need.
Oh- and I have hauled that stuff up when we had anchored in 38 feet of water too.
What I would love to add and I'm looking for the right one, is some sort of chain stopper up there. I'd like one of those with a pawl that clicks down from gravity when you relax the load, and can be flipped up when letting chain out. But I'm also considering one made from a stainless angle, with just a slot in the top so a link can be put in there. The intent of course is to hold the chain while you are hauling it in, NOT to hold the anchoring load- for that I always transfer to a chain hook and nylon snubber.
I made a chainstopper for my Bristol that works as a part of the anchor roller. I have some pictures and a scale drawing here:
John, on both boats there was a Simpson Lawrence SL 555 (SeaTiger), so that's the only manual windlass I've ever used. I have a Lofrans Royal now, but it's not usable without some work being done to it, and it also needs a gipsy ($$). So I've never used it.
I've only admired the bronze Plaths from afar (and I think the ABI may be a copy of that).
Both of the SL windlasses worked fine, but I've no basis for comparison to others except by specs.
I debated this question for quite a while, favoring the manual windlass for it's fool-proof simplicity, but finally opted for a vertical electric from Ideal in RI. We used a 35#CQR(later changed to a 45) with 200 feet of 5/16.
The main reason was for safety. The last thing I want to do is slowly crank up 100' of chain in the middle of the night if there is a problem - dragging in a squall,etc. The power consumption I figure is a wash- the engine is usually running when anchoring and if it's not, it's true the windlass draws a huge amperage load, but it's only running for a minute or so anyway. There are options to the windlass if there is a complete power loss such as running a length of line with a chain hook to one of the cockpit winches.
One other real advantage is that anyone can handle the anchor. My 10 year old son was in charge of the anchor detail. It was never a problem to lay out as much chain as wanted, and get it back quickly, if necessary.
Similar to Rachel, we were anchoring on average about 250 times a year, and I also need to add the disclaimer that I never used a manual windlass, so I might just as well have been satisfied with one.
Interesting feedback, people. Thanks for sharing your experiences and making this the best forum on the net.
There seems to be a general consensus that a winch is not mandatory, but, like self-tailing winches, a very nice option to have. And if it's a powered one, even better.
Vertical or horizontal is still a gray area. I've seen some vertical winches that were powered but had a provision to attach a winch handle for manual retrieval. Also, some have an integral hawse pipe. The low profile of the vertical ones is a nice feature.
After reading CharlieJ's post I think I need to go out, anchor in 35' of water, and manually retrieve the chain just to see how much effort is required. And David's great chain-stopper idea ... I'm going to look into that one.
Meanwhile, I'll keep looking and listening so that I make the 'right' choice for my boat.
Thanks.
Bill, my chain is so new it hasn't seen salt water yet! I was under the (mistaken?) impression that weight was a 'good' thing for anchoring. Anyway, thanks for the input. I'm going to have to re-read that section of the Pardey's book.
I think a good working chain stopper would make a HUGE difference in pulling chain. Which is why I want one on our boat.
When I lived a board my Cross 35 Trimaran,. and cruised full time, I carried a 35 pound plow and 100 feet of 5/16 G4 chain. I didn't have a windlass then either, and didn't ever feel the need- I just hand hauled it. But then, I was 40 at the time too-grin.
Maybe in 3 or 4 more years when I hit my 70s, I'll begin to want a windlass also.
Okay, am I completely missing a post that advocates "light" ground tackle? I've read the Pardeys' books and when I run their calculations (they factor windage over boat-weight), I come up with heavier ground tackle than "normal."
They did say they went to G4 chain over G3 because it was lighter; but it wasn't so much that they wanted light chain as it was that they wanted more strength but the bow of their boat couldn't carry the weight of the heavier chain very well. G4 is stronger than G3 so you can "go down a size" in chain and thus keep the same Working Load Limit (WLL) with lighter chain.
Personally, I wouldn't strive for light, although I would lighten (i.e. go to G4 over G3) if I needed to in order to get the length of chain and the WLL that I needed.
All dependent on how you plan to anchor, of course.
I was under the (mistaken?) impression that weight was a 'good' thing for anchoring
Weight is a very good thing for an anchor rode. For lots of reasons. I hate to spell them out though because this forum already has too many opinions about anchoring gear. :-)
-Britton
Work is overrated.
Most everything you read on the Internet is wrong.
Rachel wrote:Okay, am I completely missing a post that advocates "light" ground tackle? I've read the Pardeys' books and when I run their calculations (they factor windage over boat-weight), I come up with heavier ground tackle than "normal."
They did say they went to G4 chain over G3 because it was lighter; but it wasn't so much that they wanted light chain as it was that they wanted more strength but the bow of their boat couldn't carry the weight of the heavier chain very well. G4 is stronger than G3 so you can "go down a size" in chain and thus keep the same Working Load Limit (WLL) with lighter chain.
Personally, I wouldn't strive for light, although I would lighten (i.e. go to G4 over G3) if I needed to in order to get the length of chain and the WLL that I needed.
All dependent on how you plan to anchor, of course.
Rachel
Rachel,
Sorry, this was my fault. I posted a reply referencing Chapter 31 of the Pardey's "The Capable Cruiser" where they talk about using higher heat treat chain to reduce the weight on the bow. I had only posted it for 5 minutes or so I thought it was a bit off topic so I deleted it and sent it privately to Peter.
You are correct in their choice to use G4 over G3 but they also mentioned an example of a boat that chose G7 to save weight.
Weight is a very good thing for an anchor rode. For lots of reasons. I hate to spell them out though because this forum already has too many opinions about anchoring gear. :-)
I have read this before but honesty I don't see the logic. From "my" understanding having a heavy chain anchor rode weighs down the rode and shallows the apparent pull angle for the anchor under moderate conditions. As the wind and waves pick up all rodes will tension tight under their ultimate design conditions. Maybe it is no longer possible to anchor with the space for a proper scope so heavy chain helps.
Britton, it seems like much of the anchor system debate here has been about anchors. I would love to hear the advantage of a heavy chain in anchor system design. I am not really talking about chain verses nylon rodes. My questions are about heavy chain verses a lighter higher heat treat chain of the similar strength but lighter in weight.
Anchored in 35' today. I could see my anchor so plainly sitting on the bottom as I just gave it a coat of white paint. Anyway, I digress: pulling up the chain was OK, and I managed to break it loose with no problems getting it aboard.
You're right, CharlieJ: a good chain stopper is next on my list too.
I'll keep researching the windlas situation anyway.
From "my" understanding having a heavy chain anchor rode weighs down the rode and shallows the apparent pull angle for the anchor under moderate conditions.
You have the idea. The heavier the rode the exponentially higher loads it will absorb. There is always a higher possible load out there but we can't design systems for 200+ knot winds and still go sailing.
More weight shallows the apparent pull angle, increases the ability to absorb shock (until it comes straight of course) and simply adds more resistance that the boat has to overcome to drag.
From a more practical point, in light 'normal' conditions the boat will swing much less or over a single point while at anchor.
Of course there comes a point when the chain becomes to heavy to retrieve though not as bad as you would think since you are rarely supporting the entire length at a given time. If you had 200' feet of chain in 20 feet of water then you will never be supporting more than 20' of chain at a time. (Well, the boat nerds will whip out their trigonometry but the concept is okay if the actual #'s are a bit off- you can always wait for no load conditions and then my example works)
The other restriction naturally is how much weight the boat can hold and still float level.
-Britton
Work is overrated.
Most everything you read on the Internet is wrong.
