Painting Teak Toerails

[A30_John]

The teak toerails, hatch covers, and coamings on my boat are currently varnished. After one season in the sun, the varnish is faded and peeling. Bare wood is starting to show in places. I love the look of varnish, but I have no interest in applying multiple coats of the stuff every year. I'm considering stripping the varnish and painting with System Three primer and topcoat.

I've read that it isn't advisable to paint teak because it has its own oils and paint won't adhere successfully, etc., rot will form under paint, etc. etc. However, I put System Three primer on the teak lids to my cockpit seat lockers this Spring and the paint has held up just fine.

Has anyone here tried painting teak toerails with success or otherwise?

Thanks.

[dasein668]

I have no experience painting teak toe rails, however I would say that up here in Maine if the varnish is actually peeling after just one season, than there is probably some issue with water getting underneath and lifting the varnish. If this is the case, you will have the same problem with a paint system until you solve the water problem.

How many coats of varnish are on there? You should expect some fading/loss of gloss over the course of a season, though if you have 5 or 6 coats or more, you shouldn't see "burn through" to bare wood over the course of a Maine summer. But you will need to renew the varnish with 2-3 fresh coats each spring.

[A30_John]

I have no idea how many coats were on there... it's what was there when I bought the boat. It was in good condition when the boat was launched this Spring. I was shocked to see how fast it deteriorated.

Mmm... 2-3 coats of varnish every Spring?!! Egads! I salute the woodenboat folks who bright finish everything.

[CharlieJ]

actually getting two coats of varnish on toe rails isn't that big a job. Takes longer to tape off the underneath of the rails than it does to varnish. Plus IF you sand and recoat BEFORE it goes to the wood it isn't tough.

Laura just recently applied two extra coats of varnish to the toe rails on Tehani in one day. Sanded and varnished early, then after noon sanded lightly and got the second coat on. Of course that was a long DRY day, but still the time required isn't much.

[A30_John]

Mmm, taping off, 2-3 coats, 1+ days' time each Spring... and that's just the toe rails.

From an aesthetic point of view... what's the feeling out there about using paint? Color recommendations to ease the pain of it all? One forum member who shall remain anonymous thought a buff colored paint might look ok. Any thoughts?

Has anyone used Cetol? I've had that recommended. Has anyone here had experience with it?

[Tom Young]

It sounds like the PO didn't put enough coats on, too bad, that's the easy part. It takes at least 6 to 8 coats for a thickness that will shield UV rays, anything less won't do. I maintain my varnish with just one coat each spring and get 5 to 10 years depending on the area(sun exposure) out of the initial coating.

But varnish isn't for everybody, I know that. Some owners paint over their varnish with the idea they will easily remove the paint at some point. I don't see any reason paint won't stick well to your teak(I think the oil thing is over blown) with a good base primer but you won't have the option to varnish in the future, say for resale.

Some new wooden boats are designed with little or no brightwork for easy maintainence, you might look at their color schemes. With a classic boat like your A30, which color to choose will be a challenge. Maybe just a white, paint it out so to speak, may be the best choice visually. Another idea may be a buff or something that is already on the decks?

[A30_John]

Good advice, thanks Tom.

At this point my only hesitation about painting the teak stems from the irreversability of the process. For all practical purposes, once it's painted it will stay painted. It's a tough decision to make. That's why if I do it, it needs to be done nicely. Color selection is key.

I've started my search for color schemes used on wooden boats. A couple of years ago I sailed on a wooden ketch that was painted buff. I liked it. However, the decks, bulwarks, etc. were all painted the same color so that made things a little easier. The decks on my A30 are that kind of whitish blue "ice" color so finding a complimentary color will be a challenge. I think I'll try painting a few samples of something with white and see how it looks against the deck and cabin sides.

[Noah]

A small amount of Varnish shouldn't be a huge job to keep up. That said, I'm a wooden boat guy...

If you do paint the teak, put one coat of Varnish down first. That way the paint won't get in the pores of the teak, so if you or another owner decides to go back to varnish they can.

[A30_John]

Noah, this suggestion was made by a couple of others as well, and it makes a lot of sense. Two questions:

1) Is one coat of underlying varnish enough?

2) Will its adhesion to the wood be as good as paint on the bare wood? I'm wondering how tough it will prove to be over time.

Thanks.

[heartofgold]

I have painted a number teak rubrails lately. If you are going to be using Awlgrip, I believe the Holy Application Guide, Version 12(?) has steps for painting wood (teak). All the wood I painted was old, old old stuff. Even after sanding, I had to use high build on top of 545 to really make it look decent. How long will it last in the Florida sun? I don't know. But we will eventually find out.

[Noah]

You don't really have to use Varnish I suppose. Any clear sealer will work. The idea here is to keep the paint from filling the poors of the wood, which would mean that you couldn't finish it bright later if you want to.

One coat of what-ever you use should be enough.

[A30_John]

Thanks for the advice. I have a couple of old pieces of junk teak laying around here, and I'm going to experiment a little before deciding what to do.

It sure would be nice to know how long the paint would last. I was estimating 3-4 years between paint jobs and someone knowledgable of the A30 told me I was "fooling myself." However, I should think 3 years is realistic based on my experience with a painted cockpit locker lid that still looks as good as the day it was painted. I used System Three paint and that stuff is very tenacious. I imagine Awlgrip would be as good or even better.

All that aside, I still have the aesthetic thing to contend with too.

[Tom Young]

Although she looks like an older wooden boat, the Mimi Rose was built in the 90's by Bill Page. Her design was by Bill, Joel White and maybe some other input. The paint scheme is all Bill Page. There is little or no brightwork and the owner likes that as he had his fill with keeping up with varnish on a previous boat.

Now the truth: Mimi Rose, like most of the great looking wooden boats gets painted every year. Some parts will go two years but the bulk gets recoated every season. Shes getting her topsides done by a pro the owner hires just for "brushing it out". BTW-This guys will brush these topsides in about 5 to 6 hours total-done-topsides get repainted every spring.

If conditions are right, it's nearly flawless, better than I achieve roll and tip. These boats look amazing using the old fashion brushing techinique. Rockport Marine has only just begun to experiment with roll / tip techniques. Their reason is solely for speed. Their results are amazing due much to this brushing/mixing technique AND a meticulous ongoing hull fairing program that all the boats get every year which simply makes the surface look like glass.

I have been studying these painting techniques for a possible article. The real secret may be more in the mixing of the paint than the techinique but I thought this paint scheme may give you some ideas. Still, paint holds up better than varnish but to keep it looking good requires nearly as much work. BTW, this is Brightsides enamel.

[A30_John]

That is a beautiful finish on the Mimi Rose... why it almost looks like fiberglass!

Thanks for the reference to a wooden boat without the brightwork outside. Did they use varnish in the inside? Or use 100% paint?

[bcooke]

why it almost looks like fiberglass

...and Tim says I am the instigator...

I would be interested in an article that shows how to get good results out of Brightsides. I am still in the steep part of that learning curve.

Is Mimi traditionally planked?

-Britton.

[FloatingMoneyPit]

THAT is brightsides enamel? The cheap stuff? Not even single-part PU?
wow

[Jason K]

Brightsides is single part poly

[Tom Young]

S&S Fidelio, sistership to Finnesterre, the fat heavy(according to the old boys of the day) centerboarder designed in the 50's that won the Marion to Bermuda race three times in a row. The owner Carleton Fisk then cruised her accross the Atlantic for years. This is one of my favorite designs.

This hull, like Mimi Rose is traditionally planked. You can find a seam if you get a few inches away. They will be more prominent after a season. In the spring, the fill, fair em and brush em again and they look incredible!



BTW, this design spurred a bunch of copies, B40, Bristol 40 and my Alden Challenger which has hull lines that look nearly identical. Full sections, harder bilges, they boats made short work of boats like Concordia 40s etc.

After the CCA rule folded, these old yawl rigged centerboarders became old hat for racing.





As a complete DIY'er, I'm interested in finding the best way to brush apply my topsides. My hull is glass and gets alot of use/abuse by a family. I want the best results from an easily applied, every 3 or 4 years, one part paint that I can do outside(where I'm stored). I wish I could have it Awlgripped but that's not going to happen. My hull, like many of this vintage, is not that fair either, and benefits from less glossy coatings. Studying these guys and their techniques is helpful. I'm looking forward to re coating my topsides, likely this spring, after 4 years. I wasn't real happy with my first try.

[Tim]

I wish I could have it Awlgripped but that's not going to happen...

Why not try doing this yourself? As a skilled varnisher like yourself, applying Awlgrip with brush and roller is not a stretch at all. It takes a significant amount of prepwork for the best finish, but then you need not touch it for many years, 10 or more. If you continue using a light color, the slight unfairness of your hull (according to your description) will not show anymore than it would beneath gelcoat or one-part paint. The light color will also effectively last longer than a dark hull, extending the useful life probably beyond a decade. And Awlgrip does hold up better than the one part paints in terms of true durability and abrasion resistance.

Awlgrip is only paint, after all. The learning curve is far less steep than most people imagine. The issue usually revolves around the materials cost...and maybe the prep time required to justify the expensive paint materials.

Anyway, give it a thought.

[Tim]

S&S Fidelio, sistership to Finnesterre, the fat heavy(according to the old boys of the day) centerboarder designed in the 50's that won the Marion to Bermuda race three times in a row...

I was struck by the similarity of this design to my Allied Seabreeze project boat, which was designed by the folks (MacLear/Harris) who were originally involved at S&S in the Finnesterre design. The Seabreeze has virtually identical sections, based on this picture. Even the rudder shapes are the same.

I had heard that the Seabreeze was closely related to Finnesterre, based on its design pedigree, but seeing Fidelio really brought it home for me.

[FloatingMoneyPit]

Brightsides is single part poly

Duh, thanks Jason, I wasn't thinking. I thought Interlux had alkyd enamel, then 1-part brightsides, then 2-part perfection or toplac or something-or-other. Obviously I'm putting off painting projects!

[Tom Young]

from the hull to paint. That was the toughest job I've done on the boat to date. That stuff is tough! But unfortunately, it had failed. A local marina shrinkwrapped the hull one year when I stored there and the wrap was tight to the hull and, well you know what happened. But it was nearing the end of it's life but the blisters that showed themselves as the wrap was peeled meant it all had to come off. The moisture destroyed the bond. I have alot of info on how to remove it now, more of the wrong way than the right!

So I've been drawn into the woodenboat maintainence ideas. Although the Awlgrip would hold up much better, I'm afraid(maybe wrongly) that raft ups, bumping docks and the fact that my boat gets hit occasionally in the mooring field here in Camden means my awlgrip might need touch up alot sooner.

I was pleased at how easily and quickly painting the topsides went. But conditions in my boat yard down on Rockport Harbor are poor. Alot of traffic, dirt parking lot, bugs etc. I'm just leery of using the Awlgrip. Now my decks need painting too and I hope to try it there.