Any theories on this picture?

[Duncan]

This is a photo provided by the seller of a boat I am interested in.
He tells me he inherited the boat and doesn't know what happened.
The boat seems worth considering, but I have been scratching my head trying to puzzle this out.



Go ahead and have fun, but if anyone has a sensible idea about what might have led to this, it would be REALLY appreciated.

I reckon it's an attempt to get at hull damage. I've imagined that the dark lines on the inside of the hull are cracks, and the light spots are grinding/repairs?
It doesn't completely add up, since there are cracks in the liner which appear outside the sawn areas, as if something fell against the liner.
But I think those might be from trying to pull things more open?

Anyway, worst case I reckon she fell over or hit a dock.
It doesn't seem like the end of the world, but it's impossible to ignore and worth getting a second opinion?

[Case]

Is that boat a Sea Sprite 23? If it is, is it in Massachusetts? (I thought of one that was for sale, this might be the same one)

It looks awfully like my Sea Sprite 23. Of course, it doesn't have damages like that. It does look like an attempt to repair something. I have no other idea than this.

One thing I can tell you...if this boat is indeed a Sea Sprite 23... the hull liner in the Sea Sprite 23 is unimpressive. It can be removed relatively easily, its only tabbed in about 6 feet of the liner. So... just focus on the hull integrity itself. The liner is nothing to worry about. Some plywood will do a better job than the liner ever could. Get a surveyor to check the laminate, the hull laminate I see warrants a close look.


- Case

[Duncan]

I agree, the liner doesn't seem any more substantial than the ones on either of my Paceships. It looks as if that part could be a finicky sort of repair, too, and I was thinking a bit of wood might be just the thing.

But, as you say, it's the hull that matters.

Just realized this morning that the dark and light patches could easily be on the outside, and showing through. Hard to tell these things from a photo, but marks on the outside (painted over) could make more sense.

[Tim Mertinooke]

My first impression was that it looked like the interior of my old Typhoon only bigger. Sea Sprite would make sense as Carl really only designed one boat. My untrained eye can't offer any info on the damage except what's obvious. Looks like a nice bargaining chip though. Looking forward to hearing and seeing more about the boat.

[MQMurphy]

Wow, that looks a lot like the damage I found inside my older Westwind.
Little by little, as I got more familiar with the boat I could see irregularities and then badly done repairs to the coaming, deck joint, cabin side and hull on the port side. The liner isn't cut open like that, but when I stuck my head into the compartment under the port side settee and shined a flashlight up on the hull I could see bunched up glass from a repair. All together, it looks as though the boat took a serious whack on that side. It has sort of brought my reno to a halt on that boat. The hull repairs, though not pretty, are probably sound. The coaming, cabin side and deck joint would need a pretty thorough re-doing, and I'm not sure that fits my program.

Duncan, I think your assessment of that photo is correct. Probably access for the repair, but the liner on my Westwind had cracks there, too, in the same area as the hull damage. Looked as though there was a serious over-flexing event!

A nice wood liner would be cool - what is that boat?

[LazyGuy]

It looks like a roundish patch on the hull to me. Chances are that fine surgeon that cut the access area didn't cut quite enough to effectively repair the patch so he used a pry bar to increase the size of the hole. It also looks like he cut three sides hoping he could peel the liner back then replace it afterwards. Once he realized that the flap didn't work, rather than breaking out the chain saw again, he just folded it back until it snapped.

If it is a Sea Sprite, the liner is rather flimsy. I would gouge and repair the tears, square off the hole and make a wood door for the two bottle wine rack. It is a great bargaining chip and Sea Sprite 23s are one of the world's best sailing boats.

[Figment]

Ok I'll throw my hat in the ring.

The whitish streaks that look like undersaturated laminate are caused by fractured fibers that aren't really part of the laminate anymore.

The dark streaks are where cracks have been filled on the outer surface, which I'm guessing hasn't been repainted yet.

The point of impact seems to be at or below the waterline. I'd be surprised if this were dock damage. Unless of course the boat was lifted by a wave and came down upon a piling or a pier or something.

[Duncan]

Thanks for the great forensics.

It is a Sea Sprite 23, and a couple of other photos indicate what things look like on the outside:





May have gone on the rocks?

[dmairspotter]

May have fallen off it's jackstands.

Looks fixable though.

[LazyGuy]

This could be the old Hazel B. She was T-boned by a Benahuntalina at Connanicut Marina The owner of the other boat was an idiot that was more concerned with how is flag was flying than where he was going. If it is, check port aft lower for a repair job. I understand Hazel B was in pretty tough shape when she was hauled just before her owner moved to Florida.

Oops, I just read that you were in Montr?al. So it is probably not Hazel B.

[Tim]

There's really not enough information to get any truly helpful diagnostics going here. Playing Sherlock is sort of fun, but shooting in the dark without any information doesn't really do much in terms of helping to determine what course of action might be required.

Unless there's more to it that you haven't yet shown, those exterior photos suggest just a simple collision or a dock or piling bump concentrated at the deck edge that is unrelated to that mess on the inside, which is located much further down the hull. Or the event may have been related, but the two areas of damage appear completely separate, at least from the information currently at hand.

The whitish areas seen from the interior view suggest shattered fibers, and the roughly circular and symmetrical shape suggests the possibility of some blunt trauma impacting the hull in that area, but it's just a picture and fails to convey any tangible idea as to what happened or what, if anything, might need to be done about it. How exactly the trauma occurred isn't of great importance to how one should proceed in terms of repair. These marks further suggest that the hull simply flexed in this area, and wasn't actually penetrated or broken.

What's the character of those areas when viewed and touched in person? Are they just marks, or is there tactile evidence of fibers that were bent beyond their normal limits?

Is there additional evidence, inside or outside, that the photos of the minor cracking outside at the toerail have any relationship to the inside?

Is there anything on the outside of the boat in way of that interior area that offers any more clues?

Is there damage on the inside of the toerail and deck area that correlates with the photos of the exterior?

In any event, there's nothing particularly frightening about any of the photos. Clearly, the boat didn't juet arrive from the showroom floor, and has experienced some issues at one time or another. Ugly, yes. Distressingly poor demolition on the inside, yes. Probability of some repair work ahead, yes. But then that's what project boats are all about. This damage just needs to factor in to the suggested price for the boat.

If you are trying to determine whether to view this boat in person, I'd say that depends on how realistic the asking price seems in relation to her overall condition, including what's seen in these photos and any others you may have.

[Duncan]

Many thanks, gents, for a very helpful process of diagnosis, I think that's clarified things quite a bit for me.

I've left the owner a message, with a view to making an offer and having the surveyor take a squint before finalizing anything.

I'll keep you posted, thanks again!