Headliner/wallcovering adhesive

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:20 am

A co-worker is making repairs to a small trawler on which the "wallcovering" (it's a bit like a heavy, household wallpaper) has peeled back at the seams. His first attempt seemed to work initially, then failed (contact cement).

I was sure I remembered where someone (I'm thinking it was Tim with the forecabin overhead in Glissando) used one of the 3M spray adhesives, then found the whole thing falling down, THEN used another 3M spray adhesive with a higher tack and had success. I searched here and looked on the Glissando rebuilding site but have not come up with the reference. Can anyone point me to it?

Side-rant: I love 3M, but one of my pet peeves about their products (waxing/polishing/compounding and spray-adhesives, for example) is that there is no good comparison rating between them. I have a 3M Marine catalog in front of me and there are no fewer than seven different spray adhesives, but I'm having the devil's own time figuring out which ones have what "tack value," and how they compare. I wish they'd have something like a "one chili pepper; two chili pepper" rating system. And not so many multiple-adjective names that sound maddeningly similar across products.

Rachel

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:50 pm

I would think if contact cement didn't work then either the surface is contaminated (dirty, waxy, siliconized), there is a moisture problem, or some other issue. That stuff attaches well to almost anything. I use it for teak veneer in companionways and it holds very well.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:55 am

I agree - I wondered if the surface might be contaminated. On the other hand, I got to thinking about things that do usually stick well with contact cement -- like a large sheet of laminate or veneer -- and then I thought that those are stiffer (than a curling wallpaper edge) and have more... not sure what to call it... maybe surface tension? The initial problem was just a small bit of paper that's curled back at seam areas - maybe 1/2" or less. It does lie back down and fill the gap when you push it there; I mean, it hasn't actually shrunk in size permanently.

The boat is fairly new and dry, but it does get very hot inside (pilothouse, lots of windows, not a whole lot of ventilation). The failure seemed to be that the contact cement went back to its "gummy" stage. In other words, you could push it back down and it would stick again, but then start to pull away with the contact cement feeling like stretchy pizza cheese when you pull two slices apart. It wasn't like this when it first cured. So maybe the original "glue" or something else in there is causing the contact cement to "un-cure."

We were thinking we'd try the spray adhesive on one seam, and then if that didn't work, well, the project just got bigger...

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:09 am

Was contact cement the original adhesive? Or the attempted fix after the problem showed? Once any material starts to release it can become difficult to correct without going back to square one.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:43 am

We don't know what the original adhesive was, and the builder is no longer in business. So it's a fix to a problem that showed up. The boat is dry, but it gets hot inside.

I thought it might be worth a test with one of the 3M spray adhesives, and I was sure I remembered Tim (or someone) using first one type, then the better type for some kind of overhead liner. But... maybe not. I guess I'll call 3M today.

You're right in that we might have to make it a bigger project.

Not that I ever was going to wallpaper a boat, but now I'm really not going to.

Rachel

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:05 am

Rachel wrote:

Not that I ever was going to wallpaper a boat, but now I'm really not going to.

Rachel

Hehe. I'm always up for something new, but that one never crossed my mind.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:12 am

Success is more likely if you get the old adhesives and contaminants off. I think one of the contaminants in fiberglass boats is the free styrene in the laminate - the reddish goo or film. The stuff migrates and lifts the cement off. (The Morgan 27 had lots!) You can buy the solvent for contact cement, but lacquer thinner does fine. You can 'reactivate' contact cement with the thinner or with more contact cement, but I absolutely hate doing things twice; I'll make the choice by considering just how tough a proper cleaning is versus doing it again.

Contact cement really is a pretty adequate adhesive when everything is right and in its favor: smooth surfaces, easy application of even coats, ability to accurately handle the tacky objects.

Like Hirilonde, I've used contact cement for veneering; some of the furniture is 35-40 years old with nearly perfect service. The 'nearly' is for the way that contact cement doesn't seem to keep the veneer from checking. The maple veneered table and the walnut veneered stereo show checking which I think is the veneer shrinking a bit and creeping in the cement; no delamination. I've taken to epoxying the veneer but that's on boats. I've even epoxyied Formica onto a boat part since I wished to encapsulate the cheap plywood substrate.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:54 am

Now I'm taking my own thread a little off-topic, but I thought of a question when you said the Morgan had "lots" of free styrene coming off as brownish goo.

Why is the free styrene there? I understand it's an original part of polyester resin (right?), but is there more of it "available" if the polyester was mixed less precisely back when the boat was built? Or if the temps and humidity were less favorable? Or does it have to do with something else completely? (Like it releases more in a different climate years down the line...)

R.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:27 am

I read this somewhere, so it must be true:

Apparently, there's plenty of unlinked chemical components in polyester. Some of 'em are styrene, which is why closed up interior spaces of fiberglass structures smell like model airplanes.

Our 1972 M 27 oozed goo from between the hollow core of the fiberglass overhead-deck. The reddish sticky stuff smelled like styrene and washed off with lacquer thinner. The hull was lined with fabric-backed vinyl sheet glued on with contact cement. Where that stuff peeled, and where I removed it to install large layups to wire the deck and shrouds down to the hull, the contact cement was gummy and there were areas of the same reddish goo. I scrubbed everything clean with lacquer thinner, and of course ground the hull clean where the layups went. I trimmed the vinyl sheet to fit around the layups and reglued it with contact cement.

heartofgold · Post by **heartofgold** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:14 am

I have used both 3M spray adhesives type 77 and 90. The 77 is good for light work, but i do prefer the 90 (Hi-Strength) by far.

I used the Hi-Strengh 90 when remaking the overhead panels on a Stevens 47 (Hylas predecessor)--Ivan damage. I also used it to rebuild the interior vinyl on the Sabre 42 which got axed by a crane boom--post Katrina. The Sabre had the vinyl attached directly to the fiberglass (make sure you semi-fair the surface before covering in this useage).

I was impressed with this enough that I decided to use this process (and product) on my own boat. I have had no problems with adhesion or failure over the last 18 months.

Wear a respirator (or at least a filter mask) when using in closed in spaces. It is never fun to coat the inside of you lungs with spray glue.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:05 pm

Thanks for the additional info! I spent the better part of an hour on the phone with 3M technical people the other day, and it was frustrating, to say the least. I want to love 3M, but ... they don't make it easy sometimes.

Based on what they'd said - and on our own reading - we'd decided to try test patches with the Spray 77 (which we have), and the #80 spray adhesive (which we ordered a can of - it's not in the marine catalog but is in the industrial one; it's something like "rubber and vinyl adhesive"). But the #90 was one we were strongly considering. I think we'll try that too, based on your experience.

And respirators, gloves, etc. will definitely be on.

I remember the photos you posted of that Sabre with the crane boom tackle inside it. Yikes!

Thanks again for the input,

Rachel