Installing Teak Sole

Marshall Wright · Post by **Marshall Wright** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:34 pm

Greetings, again.

Some more advice?

This Fall I'm going to install teak boards over my new plywood sole that went in after installing new water/fuel tanks. Some technical advice on how to best install this flooring?

Should I glue or expoxy the boards in place or can I just screw them down to the subflooring without any bonding? I'm going to screw everything down with bronze screws and install bungs in a nice, tight pattern and then tape and finish the 3/16" joints with the same black material that they finish teak decks with.

Thanks for any advice.

Marshall

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:12 am

Some classic old boats (like Alden Challengers) were solid Teak and Holly edge nailed into groups or planks. Others that I've only read about had the Holly strips standing proud for grip underfoot(!). Our old boat has 5/8" thick solid Teak and Maple and grouped into planks four Teaks and four Maples wide; the Teak is grooved on both edges and the Maple is tongued on both edges, except that the first Teak board is not grooved on the exposed edge and the last Holly strip is not grooved on the exposed edge. Where the planks are an odd shape (fitting around the mast) or cut to accomodate the battery box access, they are ganged from underneath by being glued to 1/4" or 1/2" plywood, depending upon span.

That last description is essentially what you're proposing.

I'd probably coat the plywood out in epoxy. I'd bond the Teak down with epoxy w/o visible fasteners. If I'd want the black sealant look I think I'd use Walnut or some other dark wood strips, however, I think the black sealant look is more appropriate for decks. I'd use Maple or Ash for the traditional look below. I would not use Holly since my experience with that wood is that it's not very hard, not rot resistand, and susceptable to staining and spalting. I would not screw or bung since it's 'way too much like avoidable work.

I epoxied Teak strips down to the fiberglass sole that I'd put in in place of the rotted plywood sole in our previous boat, a Morgan 27. I coated out the strips, sanded the whole thing smooth, coated out in epoxy, and urethaned. The strips were laid mostly on the flat sole but had to bend up on to the hull as it curved up at the ends. Lots of work, looked beautiful, but slippery and inevitable subsequent finish repair would be a pain working through the urethane to the epoxy.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:56 pm

Quetzalsailor wrote:I would not use Holly since my experience with that wood is that it's not very hard, not rot resistand, and susceptable to staining and spalting.

I disagree. Holly is quite hard. It may not be the most rot resistant, but if your sole is untreated and always wet than you have other issues. Properly finished, rot shouldn't be a concern. As to staining, it isn't as susceptible as oak and again, proper finishing and not putting fasteners through it should eleviate any staining issues. Hinckley cabin soles are solid teak splined together with holly milled such that a cross section is a plus sign. The holly pieces serve as a spline and contrast strip at the same time. I have repaired 30 years old sole sections that were still solid and relatively unblemished (the damage was human caused). Holly is the whitest wood there is. That is what makes it a great contrast strip. It is a time tested choice for cabin soles

If you are however going to use black rubberized caulking or carbon filler in epoxy as seem details, I can't see using holly as well. I would use one or the other.

What exactly is your sub sole material (what kind of plywood)? Will it have been exposed to traffic for a season before attaching the finish material? Have the bottom and edges of the plywood been well sealed already? The answers to these questions would concern me more than anything else. Properly secured teak, holly and/or seam fill are far less of an issue than rotting plywood underneath

I highly recommend epoxy. Whether you screw and glue, or use temporary hold downs and glue alone is a matter of choice. If you are going to use the black seam fill then you can just space the planks and fill the entire gap after.

Some time ago a member here did some cockpit seat/locker lids in teak strips glued and held with temporary fasteners. He then filled the seams. They came out beautiful and the procedure as well as the craftsmanship were both excellent.

deckhand · Post by **deckhand** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:24 am

if you already have a solid sole and just want the teak and holly look you might want to consider some extra thick veneer. Check out these guys
http://www.certainlywood.com/woodmenu2.cfm?p=7

At one time they had some very reasonably priced teak at 1/8" thick, right now they have one of the mahoganys for 3.25 /sqft. rip it down and lay it on. I remember reading some where about a guy who filled the spaces between his veneers with thickened epoxy, would certainly seal in the veneer and make for a durable "holly". He was using it on bowls.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:50 am

I'd glue the teak down, spacing it out as you want it and holding it down with screws through washers in the gaps between the strips. Once the epoxy cures, pull the screws and fill the gaps with epoxy /graphite mix, or your poly in black, which ever.

No need to screw and plug through the strips.

One thing I would NOT do is varnish the sole afterwards. I almost killed myself slipping on a varnished sole once. I now oil soles.

There is a product out that is a glossy finish like varnish, but is non-slip. Can't recall the name.

Ceasar Choppy · Post by **Ceasar Choppy** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:07 am

CharlieJ wrote:There is a product out that is a glossy finish like varnish, but is non-slip. Can't recall the name.

Ultimate Sole... I haven't used it myself, but I've seen it and have been impressed by its grippiness.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:52 am

Thats why I prefaced my remark 'in my experience'. I scrounged a 10" dia Holly from a construction site and it was pretty awful stuff. (I had cut it up and dried it.) There must be better and lesser varieties. Similarly, Norway Maple is very inferior to other Maples. Ditto, there's a wide variety in Yew.

The advertising material for our NE 38 says the sole is Teak and Ahern (Maple) but the strips (cross shaped or tongued on both sides) sure look like Ash to me, with the open grain. I used a bit of White Oak to replace a stainless steel step nosing. The contrast is not as distinct as the Maple, Ash, or the Holly would be, but most varnishes are yellow to begin with and shift yellower with age anyway; meanwhile, the Teak lightens and the white woods darken.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:46 pm

Well, according to Wikipedia, there are something like 600 species of Holly. Of these, both European Holly and American Holly are described as being quite tough, hard, fine grained, very white, and rot resistant. Of the 100 or so species listed in the article, extrapolating from the sample of about 20 I tried, most had no information, and a few had the same praising description given for the EU and US versions.

I wonder about the example I had?

Charlie J's reference to non-slippy gloss finish might be found, by the determined, by reading back in this Forum, maybe about a year ago.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:20 pm

Taken from the discusion page of the "holly" wikipedia article:

Our article on Aquifoliaceae indicates the family has about 600 species ... The USDA through GRIN lists about 200; the others combined don't even list 50...

Just be careful what you quote from Wikipedia. Some of it is good and then there is a lot of opinion and rubbish to sort through. Anyone can say anything they want there. There is a reason why no academic forum will touch Wikipedia.

Marshall Wright · Post by **Marshall Wright** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:22 am

Thanks to all the imput and suggestions.

Answer to question. The existing ply subfloor is 1/2" but over closely spaced (1' o.c) wood stringers. The new ply pieces that were spliced in after installing the tanks were nicely sealed on the bottom and edges. The existing sole that was not replaced while opening up the sole to remove and install the tanks is questionable regarding sealing. But it was good and sound as the boat has never suffered any real wetness.

OK. I will epoxy the 3/8" strips down. Will temporarily hold down with screws and washers. I will seal the ply subfloor and bottoms of flooring with expoxy before placing. Although I'm leaning toward rubberized poly, I will mix a batch of the epoxy with graphite and see what it looks like. I've dropped the idea of screwing and plugging. Agree, sounds a lot like work to me, too. Will definitely try the oil finish rather than varnish - as my iceskating days are long over.

Thanks again.

Marshall

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:26 pm

I think you have a sound plan. If you know you won't be varnishing then you will find the rubber seams more non-skid. Most deck seam fills have some silicone in them. In this case I don't regard the material as evil. I have had great experience with SIS 440.

http://www.boatbuilding.net/article.pl? ... 04/1516248