Triton Restoration Fund

[Triton106]

Hi All,

As a finance professional and a Triton owner/supporter I sometimes have these unrealistic thoughts about saving/restoring as many Tritons as possible. It's driven by several reasons and I list them in not any particular orders below:

1. Triton is a Hall of Fame boat and deserve to be saved
2. Most of the new production boats are just plain ugly (I know this is a personal taste issue) and the classic plastics are far prettier. There are a lot of sailors out there that would have bought a new Triton instead of a new Catalina or Hunter if they could find one
3. Tritons are structurally sound and are good candidates for restoration
4. Through Tim's day sailor and other restoration examples he has proven that restoration of Triton can be done financially (i.e. the price people are willing to pay for restored Triton > cost of restoring them)

The only problem for me of couse is that I have neither the skills or the resources to do it. However, I have come up with an idea that I want to float with this group which is as follows:

1. We form a corporation and sell shares of the company to buy Tritons in need of restoration. Say we get 100 people to sign up and each one contributes $500 for the shares of this company we will raise $50,000.

2. We contract the restoration work to Lackey Sailing.

3. When Tim completes the project we list it on Yachtworld and other websites.

4. Say we sell it for $90,000 (based on Tim's day sailor asking price) we will collectively now have made $40,000 profit.

5. We then buy two more Tritons in need of restoration and start the process over again. Eventually when we restored all of the Tritons we can divide up the proceeds and pay dividend to the shareholders.

What do you think? I am ready to sign up.

Best regards,

Ray

Disclaimer: The statements made above contain forward looking assumptions. The readers should understand the potential risks involved in investments in a crazy boat restoration dream. Consult your tax advisor for potential tax consequences in investing in such a completely unrealistic plan:-)

[LazyGuy]

Where does Tim get paid?

[Tim]

It's a nice idea in concept, but the realities of the financial situation don't work out quite as cheerily as that, I think.

I'd be happy to expound upon this basic statement offline, Ray, if you're interested.

[Robert The Gray]

As a for profit enterprise I would second Tim's assessment. I do feel that The idea has merit as a non profit. There are quite a few bred specific dog rescue organizations. I could see a Triton rescue organization. I mean no bias but out here in the west we rarely see soft decks, I have never heard of a Triton being chopped up, but then again I am ignorant in many ways. The restoration costs are cheaper if there is a recore involved. But regional rescue operations that could respond to local financial pressures could help stay the elimination of the boats. I would lean towards warehousing the boats, and trying to hook boats to owners. gotta go to work now , just my thoughts in response to your idea.

r

[Triton106]

I knew you guys are too sharp fall for my plan :-) But seriously the goal of the project is not to make a profit but to restore and preserve Tritons from the chopping board and to do so without losing money. I think non-profit organization is a great idea from a tax point of view.

Obviously I knew my example is too simplistic and wishful but the point is that if we can sell the restored Tritons for more than what we pay to buy the neglected Tritons and to pay Lackey Sailing for the restoration work this plan can work. We may even be able to find some hulls for free (eg. Joe Henson's project Triton).

Tim, I am very interested in your opinion if this goal is achievable from a financial point of view based on your more realistic experience.

Robert's idea of warehousing the boats is a good idea too but not mutually exclusive from my idea.

Lazyguy, Tim does the work for free:-) Just kidding, he will be paid out of the funds raised. In my example, of the $50K raised only a small portion will be used to buy the restoration candidate presumablly it will be inexpensive (that's why it will need restoration).

Best regards,

[deckhand]

The heart of the plan is in the right place but for $90 grand I'd be looking into something like this with 15 grand left over some serious upgrades...
Also Ray, restoring a boat isn't as easy as saying it (ie: there is no such thing as an "inexpensive" restoration be it time or money...) . Couple this with the fact that tritons, while initially cheap and very easy on the eyes, are not really the most reliably built boats* this would be a rather expensive venture in the long run.

One thing that might be worth while if you are serious about building plastic classics is to make a mold of the triton and build a new boat from scratch without all the things that make plastic classics a pain to work on. I'd say a good 25% of my restoration (I like to call it a rebuild since I'm exceeding spec) is taken up by removing stuff so I can put new stuff on. This isn't the case with a new hull, not to mention there's no fairing to do...

*I didn't say they weren't reliable boats, I was talking about the very different layups and build quality from triton to triton, some being bad and some good. [/url]

[Triton106]

Dave, your point is well taken. There are a lot of choices at $90K range. Depending on your personal preference and plan the Willard maybe a better choice. On the other hand for others that may want a lighter day sailer they will opt for a Triton "day sailer" that combines the classic looks and almost new everything (as in Tim's example).

I think we can also address your concern that Tritons are not really the most reliably built boats (footnote noted). Obviously we will screen restoration candidates to make sure that the hull and deck are worthy of the being completely restored. That will be all part of the process.

I am also fully aware of the scope of a full restoration (though not by first hand experience) and the number of issues that could be encounted. No worthy goals are ever simple or easy or someone else would have done it. I know folks reading this forum are all in favor of saving these classic plastics (or woodies). The challenge is to find a solution and to do it economically.

I actually also thought of starting from a new hull but then it won't achieve the goal of saving existing Tritons.

I am not naive about the amount of challenge this proposal represents. Taking it from idea to fruition will take a tremendous amount of work. Looking at all of the successful examples of enterprises worth emulating, like Lackey Sailing, Moyer Marine, Good Old Boat magazine, they are all started by individuals with skills, determination, tons of hard work, and a bit of luck. If this idea does not take off on this forum I think this could be my "retirement" gig :-)

I invite everyone to please chime in, I know you have strong views. Don't be shy to tell me how unrealistic or ridiculous this idea is.

Best regards,

[Hirilondë]

What is the "real" motivation behind this idea? To say you want to save Tritons is way too broad an answer. Without a clear concise goal that is supported by many and appreciated by many more you will simply take the old adage that: "A boat is a hole in the water into which one pours money" to to new and never before seen heights.

Does anyone pay $90K for a Triton? Even if the answer is yes how many? Are you trying to satisfy a need in the market? Or are you trying to get others to agree with you that owning a classic, a Triton specifically is what they really want? Not every boat is worth saving. And how many of one design need be saved for the sake of posterity?

Can anyone professionally restore Tritons for less than $90K? I know that a full service boat yard can't, not and turn a profit. Maybe Tim can, but would he make enough to become a Triton resto-factory? Would he want to? You'd have to ask him that one.

It hurts me to see classic boats scraped. It hurts even more to see rare wooden boats scraped. But how many do we really need to save? And how many can our economy support? Museums like "Mystic Seaport" keep massive archives of designs, drawings, photos etc. Do we, or anyone for that matter need to protect more hulls than there is a demand for?

One of my most favorite things to do is sail my dinghy in the ports I cruise to and admire the classics, both wood and plastic that I find there. As the number of Benehuntalinas increases and classics decrease I am saddened. But this "display" is based on the market, and the wants and "needs" of the sailing public.

I did some research a while ago on what a new 27-28 foot cruising sailboat goes for. I found $65-110K to be the range. I would consider a thoroughly restored 1960s classic in that range to be more than an equal to almost every new one produced today. But I have found myself to be in a vast minority. Most people are suspect of used. And in spite of the many compliments I get on my boat, virtually no one I meet would pay me anything close to what I put into mine.

Most of us here a dreamers to a certain extent. I hope we always are, and that others join us. But I think it takes individuals to save boats one at a time supported by others, and museums to save a few of the best examples for posterity.

[Triton106]

Dave F.,

Thanks for your comments. Really good and insightful questions. I agree the goal needs to be more focused.

How many people are there willing to pay $90K for a Triton? Not many, but I am also not suggesting that we need many. If we restore one a year we only need one buyer a year that appreciates a classic for its tangible and intangible values.

Can anyone professionally restore Tritons for less than $90K? I don't know. Hope Tim can chime in here or respond off line. I am hoping that it can be done. But at the same time it does not have to be "fully" restored, and can be restored to a buyer's specification not unlike the yacht builders sell boats at different stages of finishing. This will expand the market of interested buyers.

One point I am not sure that you are entirely correct is to consider yourself in the minority when it comes to favoring restored classics vs. the new production boats. The phenomenon of the latest design trend toward tasteless Benehuntalinas is not necessarily a reflection of average sailors desire. It's not unlike the 70's disco fashion and mass manufactured suburban house architechures or cars for that matter. I venture to predict that this era of production boat styles will be considered one of the worst in history of yacht building. (My apologies to those of you who love disco fashion, 70's suburban housing designs and cars. I for one live in a house designed by cookie cutters and yes I have worn disco bell bottom Levis.) But here is the point. We need to learn from history. What a boat designer/builder tells us what we want is not necessarily what is we really want. But if no one stands out and point out the absurdity of the new yacht design the public will just think that is what new yachts are suppose to look like since that is what their brokers are telling them. Ok, I am getting off my soap box now...

Best regards,

[Triton106]

Which boat will you sail (say they both cost $90K)?




Do I need to say more?

[Sailordave]

Well, as to which boat I'd sail on... of course I'd choose something CLASSIC as opposed to the POS in the first photo.
BUT.
The market is dictated by what buyers want and people want ease of handling, fast sailing in light conditions and room for 13. Okay, maybe not 13, but 7. Creature comforts for their floating hotel room.

That comes at the expense of looks and seaworthiness.

The problem is there are very few buyers who would consider a restored Triton. Right off the bat you've limited your market.

NOT a bad idea, I just don't think it's viable, at least not in regards to NOT losing money.


Like the old joke; Know how to make a small fortune in boatbuilding? Start w/ a Large Fortune!


All that said, I would love for some builders to resurrect their old designs and build them w/ a slightly updated underwater shape, newer materials and rigging.

Can you imagine a carbon fiber/epoxy Triton hull, w/ CF spars?! All new interior and electronics!

Or a Hinckley Bermuda 40, Tartan 37, etc?