Edson chain and cable replacement?

[Richincident]

I have been playing phone tag with two excellent diesel mechanics, each of whom has worked on my ancient MD-2 for the past couple of years. (All just preventative maintenance--the motor runs perfectly at age 41). However BOTH thought they could replace the steering cable/chain on my Edson wheel. I DREAD doing this job myself but I seem to be the only one invested in doing it. I will call Edson today, but I thought I would ask for brief stories on your experience if you have done this repair. Of course, THE INCIDENT is constructed so that I have to fold my 6'3" into some pretty weird shapes just to BE where the Edson wheel equipment is located, AND I will have to reassemble some things that mechanic 1 took apart. Also I will need to get down to the place where the rudder goes through the hull and try to figure out why there is some play on the shaft. I have been kind of reluctant to tamper with mission critical stuff like the rudder and the motor, though I am OK at fiberglass and simple engine maintenance. THOUGHTS? Can I do this?

[Oscar]

Yes you can do it, and not only that you SHOULD do it. One, pretending the stuff isn't there doesn't mean it doesn't wear. It needs to be looked at. Second, my philosophy has always been that I need to know how the entire boat is put together. "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen out there" so, there is nothing better than figuring out how to get to things when tied up to a dock. If necessary you may have to create little access holes to stick a hand and a tool through. Again better to ponder that in dock with some pleasant music going than "out there" with your face turning green.

Sooo, figure out how to make it all accessible, how it's put together, and then how to fix it and put it back together. You'll be a better, safer, sailor when you're done.

[Richincident]

OUCH! Of course you are right Oscar, and that is JUST what I needed. A good slap upside the head and a glass of cold water in the face. THANKS!

Yes you can do it, and not only that you SHOULD do it. One, pretending the stuff isn't there doesn't mean it doesn't wear. It needs to be looked at. Second, my philosophy has always been that I need to know how the entire boat is put together. "If it's going to happen, it's going to happen out there" so, there is nothing better than figuring out how to get to things when tied up to a dock. If necessary you may have to create little access holes to stick a hand and a tool through. Again better to ponder that in dock with some pleasant music going than "out there" with your face turning green.

Sooo, figure out how to make it all accessible, how it's put together, and then how to fix it and put it back together. You'll be a better, safer, sailor when you're done.

[Ryan]

I have done a chain and cable replacement and it wasn't nearly as bad as I anticipated. Of course, the type boat makes all the difference in the difficulty. Regardless,definitely do it. If there is one thing that you don't want to loose coming into a busy harbor, its steerage. The satisfaction of KNOWING it was done and done right means a lot.

Ryan

[Richincident]

Thanks Ryan! Of course, it was the worry about my amateur status as a deck grunge scrubber that made me a bit concerned about whether I COULD do the job right that has delayed me so far. BUT I have a history of bicycle repair as well as boat repair and you all are good at providing encouragement. So is Edson, for that matter. The tech today said I should use a messenger when taking out that chain to find out its length. I am thinking he just means to attach a piece of line to it so I can string the new chain easily. Is that right? Any things you wish you had done differently in your work on the replacement?

I have done a chain and cable replacement and it wasn't nearly as bad as I anticipated. Of course, the type boat makes all the difference in the difficulty. Regardless,definitely do it. If there is one thing that you don't want to loose coming into a busy harbor, its steerage. The satisfaction of KNOWING it was done and done right means a lot.

Ryan

[Ryan]

Your actual setup would determine the way to approach it. The system I worked on was actually a piece of chain 18 inches long with cable attached to both ends. The chain draped over a sprocket that was connected to the wheel axle and the cables ran down either side of the pedestal to turning blocks (idler pulley in Edson-speak) to the drive radial that was bolted to the top of the rudder post. I originally tied a messenger line to each cable end and after disconnecting from the radial, pulled the entire chain/cable combo out of the pedestal from the top. The messengers make it easier to get the new cable to line up with the holes in the idler assembly.

Be sure to check out the boat specific pages on Edson.com. It helps to have a picture of how the system was put together originally when you are planning your attack!

Your history of repair gives you all the skills you need to start this job, and as you said, this board is extremely good at providing encouragement and advice if you get bogged down. Contortions and small spaces aside, I think you will find the hardest part of the job is dealing with Edson's pricing.

Ryan

[Oscar]

At the risk of stating the obvious, you will take the compass off and get to the sprocket from above. Some disassembly required. While you're at it you can make sure the compass light wire is in good shape.... Also, after installation go sailing for a few days, then come back and re-tension. Things will settle in. Also while you're on the subject, install the emergency tiller and see if you would actually want to sail like that. May want to weld or bolt on something that makes it more user friendly. By design most are not.

[Richincident]

The compass is off and there has been a good amount of dismantling already. In fact, since I thought I MIGHT have do the job I was not happy that I got a partial disassembly rather than a quote.

I am also going to have to figure out what is going on with the packing box OR whatever it is that is allowing the shaft to have some play and allow vibration in the rudder.

The tiller on the Soverel 28 is the 'regular' full size teak tiller. Among my thoughts was to just remove the edson wheel entirely. But I have gotten spoiled and want the wheel.

Also I have talked with Edson and I now DO fear the invoice!

At the risk of stating the obvious, you will take the compass off and get to the sprocket from above. Some disassembly required. While you're at it you can make sure the compass light wire is in good shape.... Also, after installation go sailing for a few days, then come back and re-tension. Things will settle in. Also while you're on the subject, install the emergency tiller and see if you would actually want to sail like that. May want to weld or bolt on something that makes it more user friendly. By design most are not.

[Oscar]

Yes, Edson is proud of their stuff. Given the choice I prefer a tiller.

[Richincident]

I am still a bit mixed on tiller vs. wheel for sailing with a crew. BUT for single handing I found that having a wheel was a great advantage, especially when mooring. There's a good amount of wind and tide where my mooring is located, and it is much easier to pick up the buoy with the wheel.

Further adventures. I tried to get the chain out and now realize what was going on with the folks who looked before. The chain is lying at the bottom of the pedestal and it appears I will have to pull the pedestal out to extricate it. I did some fishing but had no luck, though perhaps I can find a better wire somewhere. I NEED to get the chain out to get the dimensions for Edson. They have VERY sketchy information on the Soverel 28. Heck, it has only been 41 years since they were built.

Yes, Edson is proud of their stuff. Given the choice I prefer a tiller.

[Oscar]

I did some fishing but had no luck

I think the pedestal is aluminum.....you MAY be able to drop a good sized magnet on a wire.....

If having the helm stay put while you run up front is what makes it easier picking up a mooring with a wheel, I recommend a bungee from one side of the cockpit to the other, and once around the tiller. It allows you to move it, but let it go and it will stay.

[Tim]

The wheel vs. tiller debate is entirely personal. I don't think you need to defend your choice.

[Oscar]

Don't think there was an attack, or need for defense, on anyone's part, certainly none intended on mine, I was just discussing the merits. I have used both on a plethora of boats. I sense this may be a sensitive subject in these parts, from the chapter on Cetol/Varnish and which ground tackle to use. I will keep that in mind.

[Richincident]

I wasn't worried about using a wheel!

I talked with Edson today because of the chain problem. Even though it is stainless, they thought a magnet might bring it up. They also think the pedestal was made of bronze! Meanwhile I did find some new issues. While exploring under the pedestal large chunks of rust fell into the bilge. I mentioned this to the Edson guy and he said that the old mounting plates were mild steel. So the two pulleys are mounted on this rapidly failing rusty plate. Consequently the next thing is going to be to remove the pedestal entirely and replace a lot more of those lovely Edson parts. Sounds like I will need a new mounting plate and PROBABLY replacement of the pulleys as well. But now only the Edson prices are worrying me--oh and the wish that I could magically control the size of my body at various points.

Don't think there was an attack, or need for defense, on anyone's part, certainly none intended on mine, I was just discussing the merits. I have used both on a plethora of boats. I sense this may be a sensitive subject in these parts, from the chapter on Cetol/Varnish and which ground tackle to use. I will keep that in mind.

[Hirilondë]

They also think the pedestal was made of bronze!

Who is "they"? I don't believe Edson ever used bronze. Mine and all others I have seen are aluminum.

[Richincident]

A guy named Chuck at Edson. He said that the 60's versions were made of (actually he said brass once and bronze once). Makes no sense since the bolts are that expensive aluminum. I suppose they would have been expensive bronze. Anyway I haven't figured it out.

And it doesn't really matter much. I figure among my tasks will be some painting and perhaps I will be able to see what the metal is. Looks like I have a series of prospects. At any rate Chuck claimed that those earlier pedestals were NOT aluminum. Go figure.

They also think the pedestal was made of bronze!

Who is "they"? I don't believe Edson ever used bronze. Mine and all others I have seen are aluminum.

[Oscar]

So the two pulleys are mounted on this rapidly failing rusty plate.

And so it begins....... Yes you have to address this. Hey, look on the bright side, it'll make it easier to get the chain out.

[Richincident]

Since I truly don't have a great preference I am thinking that this may be the year of the "steering wheel-ectomy" as I put an inspection port in place of the pedestal. Then I can work on painting and overhauling the Edson wheel "in my spare time" over the summer and replace it next spring. I guess I will see how much I am going to have to pay Edson and how quickly I can do the job!

So the two pulleys are mounted on this rapidly failing rusty plate.

And so it begins....... Yes you have to address this. Hey, look on the bright side, it'll make it easier to get the chain out.

[Oscar]

If you go that route you may be able to manufacture, or have someone manufacture, the plate for less florins than the ransom King Edson demands......

[Ceasar Choppy]

A guy named Chuck at Edson. He said that the 60's versions were made of (actually he said brass once and bronze once). Makes no sense since the bolts are that expensive aluminum. I suppose they would have been expensive bronze. Anyway I haven't figured it out.

And it doesn't really matter much. I figure among my tasks will be some painting and perhaps I will be able to see what the metal is. Looks like I have a series of prospects. At any rate Chuck claimed that those earlier pedestals were NOT aluminum. Go figure.

They also think the pedestal was made of bronze!

Who is "they"? I don't believe Edson ever used bronze. Mine and all others I have seen are aluminum.

I believe the bronze part in question is the base of the idler sheaves which are bolted to the underside of the deck and use the same aluminum bolts that hold down the aluminum pedestal. I can confirm that Edson has done this and I do not look forward to removing my pedestal for inspection or to replace it. Aluminum + Bronze = BAD.

[JonnyBoats]

there is some play on the shaft

You definitely need to check this out. Take a look at the quadrant, is it aligned to the shaft with a key? Is the keyway worn and is this the source of the play?

If you are going to need to have the rudder shaft attended to (perhaps re-machining the keway) you want to know this before you get too far into the project.

[Richincident]

Update on THE INCIDENT and the pedestal caper. I DID get the pedestal removed and put a little bit of plastic floor covering in place over the "mickey mouse" shape of the opening in the deck's nonskid surface. I LOVE the tiller for most things--the already large cockpit is now even more enormous, and I can comfortably sit with my feet against the seats on the other side of the boat while I steer. The pedestal was RIGHT in the way of doing that.

The only time that I was not very happy was when, on my first day sailing, I tried to land at the mooring under sail. Too wild (the wind was around 18 knots) and I couldn't safely manage it all. I tried the bungee approach, and will some more, but the boat is VERY maneuverable with its spade rudder, and it turned all too quickly. So far I have done better with letting the tiller free and trimming the sails to get where I am going. With less wind I have been able to land the mooring easily both under power and with the main. And I have been sailing single-handed in some pretty strong winds (why else do you sail!) and the tiller has had a great feel.

Edson's love of their parts is keeping me from doing much this year other than painting the pedestal. If our business takes off over the summer I will probably put it back on to make my wife happy! So the only project I now have is to paint it while it is hanging around the garage.

Edson recommends doing it with Interthane, a two part paint. Anyone out there done that? Could I get by with Brightside or Easypoxy instead? THANKS as always for your guidance. This is my favorite board! Meanwhile YES, there WILL be more pictures, but I have sailed pretty much every day since she went in the water on July 1. Today we are off to see the tall ships!

[Oscar]

I have sailed pretty much every day since she went in the water on July 1.

That, my friend, is all that matters....... The rest is secondary.

I hope to be in the water soon and salvage whatever I can of the season.

[Richincident]

Oscar, yes! Get out there. I have an emergency back up sailboat, a little Sunfish that someone gave me last year--it was full of water and they couldn't figure out what to do. So before THE INCIDENT went in I sailed on the Sunfish and crewed on PHRF boats. As much sailing as possible!

I am enjoying the tiller but the wheel is easier on the arms! Today we sailed into Boston and joined the parade of boats through the harbor. Great day for sailing and NEAT to sea all those lovely ships. Tomorrow they sail out but I have to work. Perhaps late in the day I can catch up with them. BUT I suspect that they will be gone before I can get the boat out to Presidential Roads.

Yesterday the wind was better but we had a frightened 13 year old with us. Finally took pity on her and turned back. Today my wife, who doesn't get many chances to sail was able to come. GREAT DAY!

[Oscar]

Sounds like you're having fun. Flew over Boston today....wild guess, 200 high speed stink pots within a 20 mile radius.... what a mess... Hope you find a few quiet spots.