Anchor Windlass; Triton Class

[hriehl1]

I am moving up from trailer-daysailing and refitting a Hinterhoeller HR 28, rather similar to the Triton. Moving into a keel boat, I have much to learn since I've not sailed this boat yet.

There is no windlass now for the Danforth anchor; 10 feet of chain and (maybe) 150 feet of 5/8 inch line. Wife and I are in mid-late 50s and will be primary crew.

Basic questions are:
Do those of you with Tritons or similar have windlasses?
Are you happy with that choice?
All chain or combo chain-line rodes?
Do husband-wife teams put the husband or wife on the bow for anchoring & retrieval?

I am hoping to get by without a windlass (as PO did for 40 years), and have my boat-savvy wife handle the engine and helm while I do the heavy-lifting work up front... but would love to learn from the experiences of others on this topic.

Thanks

[Tim]

Do those of you with Tritons or similar have windlasses?

I don't have a windlass on my Triton.

Are you happy with that choice?

Yes because I don't have a windlass, with its associated weight, clutter, cost, maintenance headaches, and complexity (assuming electric).

No because if I anchor in water over about 20' deep, I almost die pulling up my 35# anchor (type withheld) with 30' 3/8" chain attached. Fortunately, we mostly anchor in shallower water, so this isn't yet a major problem.

All chain or combo chain-line rodes?

Chain and line. 30' of 3/8 chain and 250' of 1/2" proprietary-brand line

Do husband-wife teams put the husband or wife on the bow for anchoring & retrieval?

Me. Or I do it all if I'm singlehanding. My wife couldn't pull up this tackle without a windlass.

I expect the next boat will have a windlass. My back isn't going to allow hauling up tackle like this any longer.

[barrybrown]

I have had two Tritons both with windlasses (one manual and one electric) and both with all chain rode. The Triton has very little buoyancy forward so it helps to keep the windlass and chain storage as far aft as can be done conveniently. An all chain rode is much easier to stow than rope. Most of my sailing is alone, I found two problems with a manual windlass while sailing alone one was the ability to accurately deploy the anchor in tight spaces on windy days, by the time I got forward and released the anchor the boat often had moved too far from the spot where I needed to drop the anchor. The electric windlass allows me to release from the cockpit. The other problem was with retrieval, again in tight spaces on windy days or in current, once the anchor breaks free there is little time to complete the retrieval and get back to the cockpit to control the boat (even worse with the main raised). This is also solved with an electric windlass, I installed foot switches on the foredeck that allow me to bring in and stow most of the chain while forward then move to the cockpit and complete the retrieval unhurried.
The primary anchor on both boats was a Delta 22 with 1/4" g-4 chain, opinions on anchors are just that 'opinions', I have had much better luck with the Delta than the CQR. One thing to watch for on a danforth or other fluke anchors is that they will often have trouble re-setting if they break out with a change of wind or tide they make excellent second anchors but I would go with something else for my primary.
I have had very little experience with the electric windlass (I just put the boat in the water last season) so I can't offer an opinion on the reliability but have hoisted enough with my back to know that I never want own a boat without a windlass and an all chain rode again.
Barry

[Tim]

Unfortunately, any mention of any specific brand of anchor always seems to bring up undesirable and unwanted controversy.

Since this thread is specifically about individual choices regarding whether or not to use a windlass on a roughly 28' boat, and specifically not about anchor choices, I've removed all references to specific anchors and other opinion from my original post. I hope this will serve as a guide for future responses to this thread.

[Duncan]

a) I use the same chain/rode setup as Tim mentions (a boat-length of 3/8 chain + nylon rode). I like lots of weight in the 3/8 chain, because I think it keeps the anchor set better, but it seems like it's getting heavier every season.

b) I have an excellent manual windlass (Simpson-Lawrence 555 Sea Tiger), but I haven't installed it. This is mostly for the reasons Barry notes, i.e. it's too big & heavy for the foredeck, and it's slow to raise the ground tackle.

c) Even though I don't like depending on electrics on the boat, I think that electric windlasses have become smaller, better and less expensive, to the point that they would make sense for smaller boats now.

d) Even with an electric windlass, you still need manual back-up. I have heard that sitting on the forward cabin-top, taking a length at a time, and resting that against a chain-stopper is a pretty good way to do things when the windlass fails.

[Quetzalsailor]

Speaking only to the raising of anchors by the aged... We have bought a Maxwell all stainless, all below deck electric windlass for use on our 38 footer.

I always do the foredeck work and Sue drives. I'm now 62 and find that we can stick the 35lb anchor down with immovable securiity (pun in deference to Tim) in high wind and willing bottom. Even with Sue motoring gently into the wind, that thing can be all but unretrievable!

With respect to the Triton and other CCA-era boats, I think that the long bow overhangs and resultant issues with fall distance within chain lockers need to be carefully assessed with the windlass' requirements in hand. The Maxwell RC10 instructions are very particular about feed angles and sideways drag through the roller; it requires a way to cleat or snub the rode and it requires sufficient room below in the locker for the chain and/or rode to pile up. On our boat, the windlass will have to be well off-center to port for fair lead and fairly far aft for ample depth and room to use a/the cleat for tying off. It would have been better for our PO to have put the anchor roller on starboard! And, I'm not moving it. Or adding a second roller. We also bought a new chain-spliced-to-braid rode which is supposed to crumple more easily into the locker.

With respect to weight, wiring and other added complexity, I am leaning away from a third bank battery forward with its advantage of the long run of smaller wire in favor of running the heavy wire from the existing banks. I will install a washdown pump and hose fitting to clean the muddy rode as it appears as the anchor is raised. I will not install a deck hatch and make the locker watertight which would also be a dandy place to stow the hose.

[Skipper599]

Well, I don't have a Triton but, I suspect my Passage 24 (OAL 30') is similar when it comes to anchoring. I have installed a manual MUIR windlass, using a CQR as a primary on 300' of 1/4" chain.
I have four additional anchors for various ground holding qualities. These others each use 25' chain and 150' of 1/2" samson gold braid nylon line. Some might say overkill but, I recall some years ago losing two anchors in a blow.
BTW what designates old age at 60 something? I happen to be 78 and my wife is a spritely 75 years young so let's not be discussing anything younger as "OLD" or I may feel the need to come show you up.

[earlylight]

Placing a dedicated battery forward for the windlass can be problematic if the alternator is a "high output" alt. The wiring to charge the dedicated battery will still need to be heavy gauge since the alt. will supply whatever amount of current the battery wants (up to the maximum output of the alt.). So, if the dedicated battery has been deeply discharged and you have an 85 Amp alt., The alt. will attempt to supply the 85 Amps. Therefore the wiring from the alt. will need to be large enough to handle this charging current.

[Quetzalsailor]

Thank you, Dick, I had not been clever enough to come to that conclusion. That's two strikes against the battery forward idea. I have not yet paid attention to the requirements of the windlass, but I'd bet it's less than the 100 amps the Balmar can produce.

Well, the boat's covered and it's been in the 20s around here overnight. Plenty of time to fret about this project.

I trust that 62 is not all that old, but truth be told, I used to be able to horse sheets of 3/4" plywood off the roof of the car, do deep knee bends lifting a 94lb bag of cement, etc. Friends of ours who took the last 18 years to circumnavigate in their Whitby 43 refer to their next boat, should they buy one, as their 'terminal trawler'; the skipper is now 75.

[earlylight]

Quetzalsailor,
I have an 85 Amp Alternator on my Westerbeke 27 4 cyl diesel and have a Lofrans Progress I windlass that I installed in 2003. The windlass draws approx. 75 Amps under max load. I ran a total of approx 75 feet round trip of #1 AWG wire from the house bank (adjacent to the engine compartment) to the windlass. The installation is documented on my web site at: http://earlylight160.110mb.com/Windlass.html

[hriehl1]

Thank you all. We will go without to see how we make out. We can always add one later.

We're trying to keep the investment down until we're sure keelboat ownership suits us.