Tim, you prompted me to take another look at the BB25. Yeah, she's a sweetie.
The designer in me can't just call it "sweet" and leave it right there, though. I had to go and think analytically about WHY it's so sweet, and how could that be applied to your daysailor project?
Overhangs. So much of classic yacht design is about the overhangs. The BB25 has a looong forward overhang, which is even exaggerated a bit by the jaunty little uplift of the sheer forward of the mast. This, coupled with the low house, gives that super sleek appearance. I think this is something that should certainly influence your daysailor design.
I know.... you're thinking "great. sheer and overhang. two fixed entities when working with an existing triton hull". True, but not totally. While you probably aren't interested in changing the sheer, you can change its appearance. Get the bulk as far aft as possible. Really lighten (visually) up the nose of the boat. Keep the foredeck as low as possible.... minimum camber. Freeing the forward part of the boat from the mass of the house lets it appear to be a bit swoopy-er. I can see this effect in your preliminary design sketches.
In light of that, I'm favoring your "option 4", with the house aft of the mast step.
It's a bit tough to get a feel for what this thing will actually be like, because not many of us see a whole lot of 28' open boats (I discount the current crop of mega-dinghies), so it's difficult to relate it to things we know. We look at the drawings and our minds instinctively relate them to daysailors we know, such as the Cape Dory 18 and the like, which look good with the house forward because it's on a different scale, and the cockpit really needs to dominate. The BB25 is actually closer in scale to the Triton hull, so it's a good yardstick.
The BB25 is an entirely different animal in the after sections, however. The Triton has better lines there.
The swept-back nature of the gaff rig also contributes to the BB25's allure. I don't suppose you're entertaining that notion though, are you? ;)
Buzzard's Bay 25
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Tim
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Mike,
Nice design analysis of the BB 25. I think you definitely hit on many of the aspects that make it as attractive as it is.
Style and successful design is--as you surely know, as an architect--often almost intangible in nature. But, to that end--when something is right, nearly everyone can look at it and know that it is, indeed, right.
That's the basic quality I'm going for in the Daysailor "design". Being a hands-on and seat-of-pants kind of person, that means that the final look and design elements will be formed more by eye than firmly to any set plan. My concepts are important to get a general feel for the look, but the final elements won't be determined till they are formed, at least partially, in wood on the boat itself. When I can step back and eye the results, I can tell whether or not it is successful, and make corrections as necessary. I have pretty good eye in this manner.
You can see, though, when looking at designs like the BB 25, many other Herreshoff and similar designs, and the Bridges Point 24--all of which feature the coaming/cabin trunk that ends aft of the mast--what I was trying to accomplish with Concept 4. My drawing was less successful, in part, probably because I lack the skills to artfully put ideas on paper. I still think that basic concept could work, and be successful--but it requires some massaging to be a success. Concept 3, on the other hand, is probably closer to the overall look I was hoping for, and came together more successfully to my eye. But whether the final boat looks exactly like that, or perhaps as a sort of morphed version of the concepts, remains to be seen.
As to the gaff rig: well, I admit that I had the idea flash into my head once or twice, as ideas do, but never was it under any serious consideration. I have my hands full without reengineering the rig!
Thanks for the great comments. Good food for thought, all of this.
Tim
Nice design analysis of the BB 25. I think you definitely hit on many of the aspects that make it as attractive as it is.
Style and successful design is--as you surely know, as an architect--often almost intangible in nature. But, to that end--when something is right, nearly everyone can look at it and know that it is, indeed, right.
That's the basic quality I'm going for in the Daysailor "design". Being a hands-on and seat-of-pants kind of person, that means that the final look and design elements will be formed more by eye than firmly to any set plan. My concepts are important to get a general feel for the look, but the final elements won't be determined till they are formed, at least partially, in wood on the boat itself. When I can step back and eye the results, I can tell whether or not it is successful, and make corrections as necessary. I have pretty good eye in this manner.
You can see, though, when looking at designs like the BB 25, many other Herreshoff and similar designs, and the Bridges Point 24--all of which feature the coaming/cabin trunk that ends aft of the mast--what I was trying to accomplish with Concept 4. My drawing was less successful, in part, probably because I lack the skills to artfully put ideas on paper. I still think that basic concept could work, and be successful--but it requires some massaging to be a success. Concept 3, on the other hand, is probably closer to the overall look I was hoping for, and came together more successfully to my eye. But whether the final boat looks exactly like that, or perhaps as a sort of morphed version of the concepts, remains to be seen.
As to the gaff rig: well, I admit that I had the idea flash into my head once or twice, as ideas do, but never was it under any serious consideration. I have my hands full without reengineering the rig!
Thanks for the great comments. Good food for thought, all of this.
Tim
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Buzzard's Bay 25
I have to agree with you. The BB25 is a great looking boat and the WoodenBoat article was very interesting. It's nice to see an old but good design being revived. I'd really like to see one in the flesh though as things often look different in three dimensions, sometimes even better.
If I could make a suggestion regarding your "Concept" it would be that you should make use of full size "mock ups" where ever possible. It is very hard to tell if a thing looks "right" unless you can see it full size and in three dimensions.
Almost any materials would do as long as they are flexible, adaptable, easy to cut and form etc. - MDF, 1/8" luan mahogany door skins, even cardboard, with lots of drywall screws etc. etc. Above all they should be cheap so that you don't feel guilty about trying as many variations as necessary. Once you have settled on a final design the "mock ups" could become fairly accurate templates for your "real," read expensive, materials.
Just a thought.
Lyman
If I could make a suggestion regarding your "Concept" it would be that you should make use of full size "mock ups" where ever possible. It is very hard to tell if a thing looks "right" unless you can see it full size and in three dimensions.
Almost any materials would do as long as they are flexible, adaptable, easy to cut and form etc. - MDF, 1/8" luan mahogany door skins, even cardboard, with lots of drywall screws etc. etc. Above all they should be cheap so that you don't feel guilty about trying as many variations as necessary. Once you have settled on a final design the "mock ups" could become fairly accurate templates for your "real," read expensive, materials.
Just a thought.
Lyman