Interior Paint

jhenson · Post by **jhenson** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:43 am

I need some suggestions on interior paint.

I have ground off 4-5 layers of speckled green, brown, white and off-white paint (much of it peeling). The dust fills much of a 25 gallon trash can. The job has been less fun than paying taxes or practicing bleeding, but I am approaching the end. Laying on my back in the V-berth grinding the underside of the deck was the worst so far, but I have yet to crawl into the cockpit lockers to grind there.

-because I have an older Triton without a liner, I'm thinking of an off-white flat paint that might reflect less (than gloss) of the imperfections. I can get Interlux Premium Yacht Enamel in a flat, or buy Interlux Brightsides and use their flatening agent. Any suggestions as to the merits of one or the other? Also, any opinions on using flat, semi-gloss, high gloss and experiences with white or off-white would be appreciated.

-since I am not using off-white elsewhere, could I get an idea of the quantity of primer and paint needed to paint below decks. I plan to cover all the douglas fir plywood with some type of laminated covering, so I might not be painting them.

Joe

Post by **dasein668** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:29 am

I would consider something other than paint for the raw fiberglass overheads. While a low-gloss paint would be OK, the unfinished surface still is pretty "yucky." Fabric overhead is pretty nice. Painted beadboard or flat ply with wooden trim would be decent too. Here's a pic from a Hans Christian (not very good, but you get the idea.)

If you decide to go with paint, I would go semi-gloss myself, as full on flat paint tends to show dirt more. As for quantities, I used about half a quart each of Britghtsides primer and paint just for the overhead in the main saloon. I used about the same amount on the beadboard that I installed in the head compartment. Don't know if that will help you extrapolate total amounts. I'd guess something in the neighborhood of a gallon of each should cover you.

Anyone else care to hazard a guess?

jhenson · Post by **jhenson** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:03 am

Nathan,

I have removed all of the old paint, and have been grinding and fairing with body filler, and the underside of the decks are a big improvement over what came from the factory. Hopefully I haven't weakened the bottom skins too much, but I have been feathering some of the rough edges of the cloth with a grinder, and filling in depressions. I don't know, we will see. I thought I would paint it and see how bad it looks. I agree though, it will never be as nice as a gell coated liner. If I'm unhappy with it, I hope I can get a headliner to adhere to the paint.

Thanks as always for your help.

Joe

Robert The Gray · Post by **Robert The Gray** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:48 pm

I own a west coast triton that has the headliner all the way into the forward cabin. Under the side decks and the fore decks were exposed fiberglass. I used on these surfaces a layer of reflext, a foil covered bubble wrap. I actually coated the whole interior of the boat with this stuff . It has virtually elimited all surface condensation inside the hull. In the fore peak I covered the ceiling with sunbrella canvas over the reflextix. I used 3m hi-strength 90 spray adhesive. use a good cartridge respirator. on the hull sides of the 4peak I used 1/2 inch closed cell foam, blue camping pad from REI. and a nice blue grey polyester pile. the 4peak is cosy and Lay right against the hull without feeling cold. It is quieter as well. I do believe that all these materials are not fire rated in any way and I have heard of guys using automobile headliners. Our west coasties with no core in the decks make them really bad for condensation, so I really like what the reflextix has done both for temp variation and sound insulation.
Robert

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:03 pm

I've got a question for all you folks who've installed insulation and/or fabric liners (or perhaps your boat came with them).

I've always had this feeling that eventually everything on a boat will get either salty, dirty, or mildewy - or some combination thereof - and should therefore be removeable so you can clean behind it.

I realize that in a perfect installation - with absolutely no gaps behind the foam - there would be no place for trapped dirt or moisture, but is that really possible?

I guess I'd just like to hear some real-world experience tales on this; I've never owned or lived on a boat with that sort of liner. On the W-32, we had wooden ceiling strips, and it was definitely good to be able to clean behind them, once in a while. On a previous boat, the PO had glued 1/4" flexible foam to the entire hull (inside lockers, etc.), so I never knew what was behind it (hated to think about it), but it did abate condensation somewhat.

--- Rachel

Commanderpete · Post by **Commanderpete** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:06 pm

Grinding off that old paint is a horrible job. Some random observations:

I wish I had spent more time filling and fairing.

You can use almost any kind of household paint on the interior. But, after all that work, boat paint might last longer.

I used Interlux Primer and Brightsides, since I already had it from another project.

I didn't use the flattening agent because it seemed like a waste of money. I mixed some primer into the Brightsides to flatten it a bit. You could only do this if you were using white paint I guess.

Purely an aesthetic choice, but I think white would look more fresh and clean. Off-white might look old and yellowed (or warm and inviting?) I don't know.

You'll probably use more Primer than topcoat to cover the fairing compound.

They sell little jars of mildewcide at the paint store to mix in the paint. Its not the answer to a mildew problem, but I think it helps.

Protect the cabin sole.

Good luck. The hard part is over.

Post by **Tim** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:03 pm

Flat paints are tough to clean, and to keep clean.

I think a semi-gloss is the best overall answer, and looks better than a high-gloss finish, particularly on somewhat uneven surfaces. Gloss would just be nasty on raw fiberglass. I used gloss on my headliner, but would now choose a semi-gloss or satin if I were doing it again.

I very much liked my experience with the Interlux premium yacht enamel, which I used on the beadboard in the Daysailor, and also used on another project previously. Nice paint, with an excellent, rich satin finish. I recommend it. I also like white because it is cleaner and brighter, and since off-white can look more dingy over time. If you go off-white, I would stay towards the lighter end of the scale. If the plain white is too bright, you can tone it down and richen the overall feeling with wood trim, perhaps.

Ideally, the overhead should be white in any event; perhaps the other surfaces could be the cream/beige color. Of course, this raises the question of how and where you break the paint, as there is no definitive trim or other thing to change colors naturally.

There are always so many things to consider with a question like this, not the least of which is personal taste.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:40 am

I used a household product on the inside of the San Juan: Zinsser.

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=35

According to the manufacturer:
"Mold & Mildew-Proof paint film- guaranteed for 5 years
Beautiful, durable, washable, stain resistant finish
Self-priming ? sticks to surface without sanding
Tintable to off-white, pastel and medium colors
Water-base, low odor
Antimicrobial formula - inhibits the growth of odor causing microbes on the surface of the paint film (does not protect against food borne and disease-causing bacteria). "

And it comes in Eggshell, Satin and Semi Gloss Finishes.

I used the interior version in the satin, tinted a slightly cream color ... the exterior one was not available locally. It's pretty amazing stuff ... goes on really well with a small foam roller. It remains to be seen how well it'll stand up, but so far, working on the boat and putting scuff marks and dropping tools on it, it seems to clean up well and does not chip or scratch easily. I'll give a full report after a 12 month test.

Warm enough (just) today to get a coat of epoxy primer sprayed on the decks and cockpit. It's good to be moving ahead again.

George ( C&C 40 ) · Post by **George ( C&C 40 )** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:45 pm

Hi All,

I would second Tim's comments on Brightside with a flattening agent as being tough to clean. I used Brightside with a flattening agent on parts of #236 "Ca Ira" and it shows a lot of dirt compared to the pure Brightside. Even the pure Brightside shows a fair bit of dirt though.

Is there any reason why Awlgrip should not be used? It's tough as nails and it's almost impossible to grind dirt into it. Cleans easy too. I've really grown to love Awlgrip on boats.

George

Post by **dasein668** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:32 pm

George ( C&C 40 ) wrote:Is there any reason why Awlgrip should not be used?

Cost and aggravation of applying come to mind. And it is REALLY high gloss, so if you haven't faired your overhead nicely I think it would look pretty bad. But it is durable and stain resistant, so in that regard it would be great!

Post by **Tim** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:03 pm

If one is already using Awlgrip as a matter of course, there's no reason not to consider it for interior use. Frankly, though, it's significant overkill for an interior application, but it would hold up beautifully, of course. They make a product called Awl-Gard (or something like that...) that is meant for interior spaces, like engine rooms on mega yachts.

Personal taste dictates whether high gloss or a more satin finish rules the day inside. Obviously Awlgrip would be the wrong choice if one preferred a satin or low-gloss finish.

Commanderpete · Post by **Commanderpete** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:50 pm

I found that this place had good prices on Interlux paint.

You do have to factor in shipping. Getting harder to find places with free shipping.

I'll be trying the new Interlux "Perfection"

http://www.boatersland.com/interlux.html

telekitr · Post by **telekitr** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:37 am

Hey Peter, any update on the Zinsser interior paint that you used back in 2005? How is it holding up??
Thanks

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:12 pm

Ernie, it's holding up flawlessly. I've even scrubbed it a few times in the galley area.
One comment: When I first applied it, after it was dry, it seemed to attract a lot of moisture. I understand this is part of the curing process and takes about 7 days.
Climate and ventillation play a big part in paint problems. It's pretty cool here in the PNW. My Vega is a very dry boat ... well designed ventilation.

Bottom line: I'd use it agian in a flash.

David · Post by **David** » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:15 pm

I use Zinsser water-based primer in my boat also. It's easy to use, no fumes, water clean up and provides a tough flat white surface. Also no mold or mildew.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:21 am

Peter & David,

Thanks for the update and the vote of confidence in Zisser. I was waiting to hear your opinion. Saves me serious cash for sure!

boatsnh · Post by **boatsnh** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:41 am

Over the years I,ve found that the higher gloss paints tend to clean easier, but can present a fairly "bright" look. On my brother's late 1960's Cal 30 we used a quality alkyd enamel from Devoe (ICI Paints) in the front cabin for both the hull and overhead - it covered very well and looked very nice 5-6 years later. It was a bright white. Back in the early 1970's we painted the interior of the family Cal 25 with "Sears Best" interior latex enamel in navajo white - never liked latex enamel ever since - did not hold up well & had to recoat every three years or so it seemed.

That being said, I use Kirby's eggshell oil paint for most of the interior of my Dickerson ketch - The prior owner used a latex of some sort - I have scraped most of it off (it held mold) and repainted with oil based enamel. I like the Kirby egshell "soft sheen" finish, but it takes 2 coats for a top notch job. It's held up well now for 3 years. I used an off white with just a touch of yellow in it to warm up the interior of the boat. It looks nice against the mahoghany trim and has a "softer" look than bright white - the Kirby tint is C4.

Another paint I find to be superb is ICI BarRust 235 epoxy paint. I love this stuff for anchor lockers, or anywhere paint will take a beating. It is sold at Devoe Paints & is about $62 a gallon. I coated the back 1/3 of the boat when I had the engine out 2 years ago, plus the areas under the main berths to seal the bare fiberglass (Dickerson never painted the raw fiberglass in areas not in living areas, or out of sight). The paint sticks amazingly well, covers in one coat and has a soft semigloss finish that is fuel safe, solvent safe and very hard - I'm not sure I'd use it as a "finish" coat in main cabin areas, but it would make a very tough raw fiberglass primer & it fills very well & it can be used in a water immersion setting - the downside is you need to wear an organic respirator.

I might use a 2 part urethane in the head, but the shine in the cabin would drive me nuts - just my 2 $$ worth.
Mike

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:46 pm

boatsnh wrote: Back in the early 1970's we painted the interior of the family Cal 25 with "Sears Best" interior latex enamel in navajo white - never liked latex enamel ever since - did not hold up well & had to recoat every three years or so it seemed.

I had a similar experience with the old, "rubbery" latex that left me feeling unhappy with it, but I've since learned that the new, "acrylic latexes" are a different ball game, and several people here have had great experiences with them over the medium-to-long term (I believe the Zinsser Perma-White is an acrylic latex, for example).

I have not tried them yet (but very well may); I just thought the distinction should be made here, since you were mentioning your dissatisfaction with the "old" latex paints.

Rachel

David · Post by **David** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:58 pm

I don't believe there is latex in the Zinsser waterbased primer. It is a water based acrylic paint. It's tough stuff. As a primer it is engineered not to flake off or peel off.

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:08 pm

So the stuff David is using is different from the stuff Peter is using. The primer, called Bulls Eye 1-2-3 is the water based primer.

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=11

While Peter is using the Perma-White interior paint which IS an acrylic latex.

http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=35

David, do you put anything over the primer?

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:20 pm

Oops, sorry if I mis-spoke about the Zinsser. I think the main thrust of my comment holds though, which is that the "old" latexes are not the same as the newer "acrylic latex" paints.

Again, sorry to bring the Zinsser in as a distraction without enough research.

Rachel

David · Post by **David** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Bryon,

Just two coats of primer. It makes a nice flat white surface.

David

telekitr · Post by **telekitr** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:51 pm

Thanks for the update Peter. I too live in a cooler climate but the boat will make its way south at some point in the future. I have her gutted of all electrical and plumbing and am about to embark on the cleaning and prep work for painting. Primary interest will be inside of closets, under cushions, perhaps even in some of the bilge areas?? I like that one may not have to be too picky on the base prep....the way it sounds it may be a bit more forgiving that other paints. I'll still scrub and clean the best I can but missing spots is always possible.
Any thoughts on the damper areas of the bilge?
Ernie

Ronin120 · Post by **Ronin120** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:08 pm

FWIW, I sprayed my interior with Interlux Perfection with flattening agent added to it last Fall. Be aware, my interior consists of a fiberglass liner, top and bottom that has finish that could best be described as very non aggressive non-skid.

I think the result is not the dead-flat look that I think Tim was referring to that would indeed be tough to keep clean. I would describe the resulting finish as have an ever-so-slight sheen but not brilliant. I like it actually. And I was wingin' it when I did it.

Used Mediterranean White to keep it from being to white. There are some photo's of the job if you click my link and work your way down the entries to the one dated December 18, 2008.

Nota Bene: I updated my iWeb software this morning and because of that some of the links don't work. When I published it the software ate my web-site. Grrrr....

Cheers

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:48 pm

Ernie said:

Any thoughts on the damper areas of the bilge?

I will be using Bildgekote in my bilge... Then the Zisser everywhere else. Primer everywhere and I'll try the Semi Gloss where I need that little bit of bright.

Good Stuff!

telekitr · Post by **telekitr** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:05 am

Thanks Bryon, this sounds like the way to go and I think it will be my plan of attack as well. Ernie

boatsnh · Post by **boatsnh** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:13 am

True that some of the new acrylics seem to offer amazing performance and ease of application. I guess with all the voc regs and the millions of $ being spent on polymer research this is the future. I think I'll re - visit these in the future.

Just a thought for folks who spend the time cleaning & painting the bilge & paint with bilge coat paint. Bilge coat is a fairly low technology paint - a one part modified poyurethane. It is not designed for water immersion, is not 100% fuel & solvent safe - says so right in the specification sheet. It can flake & peel if water gets behind it. and does not protect fiberglass from moisture. A good epoxy paint (like the bar-rust 235) is specified for water immersion - in fresh or salt water, is chemical resistant (gas, diesel) and will not peel or flake if applied to a clean substrate. This stuff is used in water tank applications or severe weather applications. For me, one time in the bilge is 1 time too many - epoxy paint is very cheap insurance. Very few people I've met have ever used this stuff on a boat, but those who have love it - especially the steel boat guys. A FWIW note: Devoe/ICI coatings was bought by Asko Nobel out of the netherlands a couple years ago -gee, guess who makes many of those good "boat" paints we use??

Idon84 · Post by **Idon84** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:15 pm

I don't know enough about the bilgekote to know how well it works or doesn't work. I only know what has been recommended to me be a couple of different people. Hence my conclusion above. On the other hand an epoxy paint, I'm sure, would be much more durable.

OK Ernie, still on the fence. more investigation to be done. Except on the Zisser.

Popeye1865 · Post by **Popeye1865** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:10 pm

boatsnh i second your rec of the devoe bar rust 235 it is an epoxy paint that sticks well to just about anything it's tough as nails and is dirt cheep 45 a gallon or so just picked up a gal. yesterday. I come from the steel boat world and that is all we used to prime anything best stuff around. i've never liked the bilge coat. it may work well on new builds but on a bilge that has been covered with water and oil and all other fun stuff i just don't think it cuts the mustard.

Shoalcove · Post by **Shoalcove** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:08 am

In Canada ,at least, the Devoe paints are sold under the name Ameron. I've used the 235 and it is tough stuff. A PITA to sand! I've also used their 2 part poly but found that it would not lay out well. I switched to Perfection (roll and tip) and liked it much better. I've got bilges that need painting and hadn't thought of the Bar-rust but now that I think of it, it would be ideal. Respirator and ventilation is a must!
Cheers, David

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:30 am

I used BilgeKote in my bilges last time, and you can't paint with that without a respirator, either! I figure I'll give bar-rust a try this time on these recommendations. Great.

And it's sold by the same guys (CID) that sell the Turbinaire sprayer which I think I'll be getting to do my painting (1245GT, probably), conveniently.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:31 pm

you can't paint with [Bilgekote] without a respirator, either!

Really?

I never found a need and the MSDS doesn't say you need it unless you are personally experiencing symptoms.

Its pretty inert stuff.

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:20 pm

bcooke wrote:Its pretty inert stuff.

No kidding. I found when I painted with it that it blew the back of my head off - a friend volunteered (masochist) to do the backs of the cockpit lockers, so he wore the respirator, and we only had one. I couldn't even be on the boat - on deck! - without the respirator.

So I guess I was "personally experiencing problems"!

telekitr · Post by **telekitr** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:55 am

Does anyone know of a US source for the Bar Rust 235?
Thanks
Ernie

boatsnh · Post by **boatsnh** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:41 pm

For the Bar|Rust, try Aubuchon hardware. They often have a commercial ICI paint division attached. That's where I get it in NH. Google them in Vt. for locations near you.

telekitr · Post by **telekitr** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:19 pm

Thanks for the tip on Aubuchon. I'll give them a try.

keelbolts · Post by **keelbolts** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:37 pm

Rachel,
My Westerly came with a foam backed vinyl. It might have been nice when it was new, but, by the time she came to me, the foam was failing and the vinyl sagging. You wouldn't believe the nastiness that came out from behind that vinyl when I pulled it down. Probably shortened my life...

I gather you met my friend Steve. He was describing the meeting and I knew he was talking about you before he told me your name. He described an extremely knowledgeable and capable local woman and I knew there're not many of those on the south end of the bay. Right off, I can think of two, including you.

Plastic Classic Forum

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Thanks for the update.

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Re: Interior Paint