Hi all,
A guy I share my shop with has an old mechanical roller swager (that he inherited from his father-in-law who apparently used it on airplanes at NASA). My 40 year old boat is probably due for new standing rigging and I am sorely tempted to use this thing to do it my self. I have used it to make some lifelines and it seems to work great, but I am still a little hesitant.
I would imagine it is not the peak of roller swaging technology, but I don't know what it would lack.
Can anyone think of a reason to support my trepidation?
Thanks,
Forrest
Roller Swaging Myself?
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- Master of the Arcane
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
Do you have some sort of training in roller swaging or are you going to push the button and hope for the best?
In all seriousness, you can only tell if the swage was done properly by destroying the swaged parts. Unless I had some confidence that I knew what I was doing with a tool that I knew functioned properly I wouldn't trust a mast that can kill you if a swage fails.
Just a thought.
Professionally made rigging is really quite cheap for what it does anyway.
In all seriousness, you can only tell if the swage was done properly by destroying the swaged parts. Unless I had some confidence that I knew what I was doing with a tool that I knew functioned properly I wouldn't trust a mast that can kill you if a swage fails.
Just a thought.
Professionally made rigging is really quite cheap for what it does anyway.
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- Boat Obsession Medal Finalist
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
I helped made a few shrouds myself using an old hand crank swager when I worked at a large sailing school.
Made several sets for oday 37's.
Wasn't rocket science, but all I was doing was the mechanical process of cranking it through the dies. That seemed fairly idiot proof (well not completely idiot proof..see below)
If I was the one who was supposed to measure, fit, etc....I would have been clueless. If I had old ones for patterns, correct dies for the fitting, I would do it again today.
Now the idiot part???
I was not there...but heard about it that day and saw the "flat finger".
One of the other guys somehow got a finger pinched in the dies. Just the tip in the slight gap along the sides of the dies. The dies only ran one way, you couldn't crank them back. He didn't want to yank his finger out and the pain wasn't that bad so he just had the other guy crank it through. There was a huge gear reduction, so it was many many cranks to get it all the way through!!!
He had a flat finger for a little while.
So not quite idiot proof!!
Made several sets for oday 37's.
Wasn't rocket science, but all I was doing was the mechanical process of cranking it through the dies. That seemed fairly idiot proof (well not completely idiot proof..see below)
If I was the one who was supposed to measure, fit, etc....I would have been clueless. If I had old ones for patterns, correct dies for the fitting, I would do it again today.
Now the idiot part???
I was not there...but heard about it that day and saw the "flat finger".
One of the other guys somehow got a finger pinched in the dies. Just the tip in the slight gap along the sides of the dies. The dies only ran one way, you couldn't crank them back. He didn't want to yank his finger out and the pain wasn't that bad so he just had the other guy crank it through. There was a huge gear reduction, so it was many many cranks to get it all the way through!!!
He had a flat finger for a little while.
So not quite idiot proof!!
Ric Bergstrom
http://andiamoadventures.blogspot.com/
Archived old blog:
http://andiamo35.blogspot.com/
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http://andiamoadventures.blogspot.com/
Archived old blog:
http://andiamo35.blogspot.com/
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- Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
To each their own, but I have never seen any opportunity for real savings to do ones rigging oneself, have no interest in trying, and don't want the responsibility.
I always go to a trusted local vendor that I know and who has a good reputation. His work is excellent and fairly priced and, frankly, less expensive and trustworthy than anything I could do. I know I am getting quality, professional swages that I can count on, with quality materials. Some things are just better to farm out, in my opinion.
If one must do one's own rigging for whatever reason, I'd suggest mechanical terminals, not swages. But there are no savings to be realized there either, and I find there are many more important uses of my time. I've done mechanicals, and am comfortable enough with the process, but it's not something I see out to do.
Note that my statements above predicate on using a professional rigger that one can trust and whose work can be backed up with reputation and quality material choices. There are plenty of slapdash jobs from pros and discount outlets out there that I'd not trust at all.
I always go to a trusted local vendor that I know and who has a good reputation. His work is excellent and fairly priced and, frankly, less expensive and trustworthy than anything I could do. I know I am getting quality, professional swages that I can count on, with quality materials. Some things are just better to farm out, in my opinion.
If one must do one's own rigging for whatever reason, I'd suggest mechanical terminals, not swages. But there are no savings to be realized there either, and I find there are many more important uses of my time. I've done mechanicals, and am comfortable enough with the process, but it's not something I see out to do.
Note that my statements above predicate on using a professional rigger that one can trust and whose work can be backed up with reputation and quality material choices. There are plenty of slapdash jobs from pros and discount outlets out there that I'd not trust at all.
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- Master of the Arcane
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
Compare the cost of shipping the parts to be duplicated to a good professional, like RigRite in Fairhaven MA to the costs of the wire and fittings. Is that difference worth the risk to you? Even professionally-done swages can fail due to corrosion or cracking; what would be the cause - poor components - or too fast an installation, lack of lubrication or some other skill-related shortcoming?
I shipped the M 27's shrouds and lifelines off to RigRite, but I did the new under-deck wires myself with Staloks. Clearly, the loads are the same (since the whole idea of wiring the deck down was that the deck was flexible). I did not know how long the under-deck wires were to be until after I'd made and installed the lower chainplate assembly and installed the new upper chainplates that replaced the backup plates for the original deck-mounted 'chainplates', so there was little choice short of paying a local rigger. Worked well.
I would have no reluctance to swaging my own 1/8" shrouds for the FD or other small craft, but not our NE 38. I would not have much resistance to using Staloks on the big boat, and none for short term repair.
I shipped the M 27's shrouds and lifelines off to RigRite, but I did the new under-deck wires myself with Staloks. Clearly, the loads are the same (since the whole idea of wiring the deck down was that the deck was flexible). I did not know how long the under-deck wires were to be until after I'd made and installed the lower chainplate assembly and installed the new upper chainplates that replaced the backup plates for the original deck-mounted 'chainplates', so there was little choice short of paying a local rigger. Worked well.
I would have no reluctance to swaging my own 1/8" shrouds for the FD or other small craft, but not our NE 38. I would not have much resistance to using Staloks on the big boat, and none for short term repair.
- Ceasar Choppy
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
Are you sure you don't mean Rigging-Only (aka the Rigging Loft) in Fairhaven? I have never heard too many good words about RigRite.
I've used Rigging Only and I can't recommend them enough. I have them swage the top terminals and I install the lowers with a mechanical swage. The mechanical swages won't save you money, but they are easy to do.
I've used Rigging Only and I can't recommend them enough. I have them swage the top terminals and I install the lowers with a mechanical swage. The mechanical swages won't save you money, but they are easy to do.
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- Master of the Arcane
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
Rig-Rite used to be located in an old mill complex in Apponaug (a section of Warwick, RI) They still list a Warwick phone exchange on their website but I don't know myself exactly where they are located as they had a serious fire a number of years ago.
Dave Finnegan
builder of Spindrift 9N #521 'Wingë'
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Gresham’s Law of information: Bad information drives out good. No matter how long ago a correction for a particular error may have appeared in print or online, it never seems to catch up with the ever-widening distribution of the error.
builder of Spindrift 9N #521 'Wingë'
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Gresham’s Law of information: Bad information drives out good. No matter how long ago a correction for a particular error may have appeared in print or online, it never seems to catch up with the ever-widening distribution of the error.
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- Master of the Arcane
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
Yes, I absolutely blew that one.
Rigging Only are the folks I used.
Sorry about that!
Rigging Only are the folks I used.
Sorry about that!
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- Deck Grunge Scrubber
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Re: Roller Swaging Myself?
I think this is the same type of swager that Ric at one time used. It seems completely idiot proof.
Does anyone know anything about these old swagers and whether they can be trusted? Whether it needed to be adjusted at some point? If it creates a weaker swage for some reason?
Forrest
Does anyone know anything about these old swagers and whether they can be trusted? Whether it needed to be adjusted at some point? If it creates a weaker swage for some reason?
Forrest