Cabin Trunk Modification

[Triton106]

I have been think about lengthening my Triton106 cabin trunk by about a foot or so to gain more galley space. Triton106 is a west coast Triton. The bridge deck annoyingly covers up about 16 inches or so galley counter space above the ice box on port side and above the galley counter on starboard side. In addition it make accessing the back of the engine room just about impossible. After reading Hal Roth's account of his modification of a Spencer 35 (lengthening it and removing about 4 inch headroom in the process) I have been thinking about doing the same. In addition to gaining valuable galley space it will also have the side effect of reducing the cockpit size to be safer offshore (which I plan to do in a few years). Has anyone done modifications of this kind? Will the modification weaken the cabin trunk structurally? How will it look after the modification? How does one go about doing it (fiberglass over mold)? Will I be able to do it myself? I would really appreciation if anyone can share their experience or learnings.

Best regards,

[Tim]

Interesting thought. Unfortunately, the nitty-gritty of the process you'd have to undertake for this significant modification would get too detailed to attempt to cover here, but in general terms what you're proposing would be completely possible. I can't say whether it's possible for you to do it yourself; it depends on your overall skill level and what your end expectations of the job were. I'd place a successful modification like this in the "advanced" category.

Clearly, it's a big job, and doing it right (that is, structurally sound and attractively--at least as attractively as possible) would be time-consuming and involve a lot of careful thought. Frankly, it'd be a lot more likely for someone to totally botch the job in terms of appearance and construction quality than it would be to do it right. There are a lot of really bad-looking modifications out there. That said, I think it'd be possible to create a seamless and professional modification as well.

How would it look? Good question. Done right, it wouldn't be something one would notice unless familiar with Tritons, but clearly it'd have an impact on the look of the boat. It could look anywhere from terrible to terrific depending on the details of the construction and how well it was done.

Then, in addition to the structural fiberglass modifications, you'd be looking at rebuilding at least the after part of the cabin to create your new galley and engine access--the project after the project, if you will.

If you did extend the cabin trunk, you might lose the ability to sit stretched out on the cockpit seats. Any cockpit in your scenario needs to balance offshore requirements with potential comfort at anchor; the point is that you'd want to be sure you weren't compromising other aspects of the boat too much in the process, or that at least you were comfortable (literally) with the compromises required.

[bcooke]

It is an interesting idea and do-able. Definitely a big job though.

One thought I had was how much room you really gain the galley? Do you have an inboard? If so then it is still going to be there and prevent you from standing much further aft. In addition, the area for the cabin sole starts to narrow a lot back there so you would be looking at a small (narrow) standing area.

I guess I see an increase in usable counter space but at considerable work. For me it wouldn't be worth it but I would love to see someone else do it and see how it comes out:-)

Stock Triton galleys suck. There is no denying that. It is part of the whole package though.

-Britton

[LazyGuy]

I agree it would be a lot of work and if done properly, would look good. A suggestion would be to do a cardboard extension to get an idea of how it would look before you break out the sawzall. One of the beauties of the triton is the overall balance. The cabin is stepped to avoid it looking too big on the boat. My gut feeling is that if you want the stretch cabin to still look proportional, you may need to lower the height. That makes a big job even bigger. If the cardboard mock-up makes the cabin look "a little too big" then there are tricks with paint that can make it look smaller.

[Rachel]

At times I've thought of several possibilities to make a better galley; all of them happen to involve interior mods instead.

As far as the cockpit goes, I wouldn't make the cabin larger just to make that smaller (I realize you're just speaking of it as a "side effect" of your cabin mod). Unless all you are going to do is a totally offshore voyage like one around the southern capes, I would say that (as Tim noted), a pleasant cockpit to relax in is very important. And you can always reduce the volume with a box in the footwell that can double as stowage, and/or create more drainage.

Back to interior ideas for increasing galley usefulness:

1) Create temporary or permanent "extensions" forward that also form trotter boxes for the after end of the berths. This is relatively easy, but if you want to use the berths you don't gain under-counter space such as for an oven or deep sink. Also you lose the ability to make a fore-and-aft double by sliding out one of the settees (but if you only extend one side, then ... maybe?) I think one could still have a double athwartships, and of course there is the v-berth.

2) Extend just the starboard side galley and then carve a trotter box into the hanging locker for the feet of the stbd berth; port side berth stays the same. With this plan you could keep the icebox on port, but make a much better galley on starboard, even with an oven if you wanted to.

3) Extend both sides of the galley, and create two trotter boxes forward for the berths. This of course eliminates the head, except as a stowage locker, so probably not desirable for most people.

4) Move the galley to the forward end of the main cabin, and extend the footwells of the berths aft. This doesn't give you a much bigger galley, but you have "stand in front of counter-ness" on both sides, which is a plus. Also, you can get much better access to an inboard engine, if you have one, with the berth ends there than you can with the galley there. Additionally, there is the hanging locker that one could convert to either the icebox (Britton has done this), and/or convenient pantry space. I think you could also make some kind of flip-up counter space that would fill in the aisle between head and hanging locker. It would block the passageway there when you were using it, but much less so than cooking basically in the companionway. You do end up with slightly inferior "lean back" areas for the settees, because they're a bit shorter. ( And I just happen to like the look of the galley aft and the settees forward.) Also eliminates an extendable fore-and-aft double berth in the main cabin.

5) Eliminate the (I think) semi-structural bulkhead between the main cabin and the head/hanging locker (adding whatever support is necessary), then move the settees forward right to the main bulkhead, and gain the corresponding space (24" or so?) at the galley, aft. This way you get the good galley with under-counter space as well, plus two full-length settees in the main saloon (check that they can stay wide enough at the forward ends). In this scenario, the head and hanging locker would be eliminated, and the v-berth would become a large head/locker/sink/stowage area such as on the Cape Dory 25D, or Cape Dory 30 Plan B layout. The settee berths could be combined into a very large berth, or a slide-out extension could make a double with a small aisle next to it.

A variation on #5 would leave a narrow set of lockers for stowage and or built in bookshelves or the like (10-12" wide?) where the head and hanging locker were. This would either reduce the galley or induce trotter boxes at the forward ends of the settees (great for shoving bedding into, but making the only real double an athwartships one.

I'll stop now, since you probably more than get the idea :^)

Rachel

[Tim]

Unlike on the Roth's Spencer 35, I don't think you can realistically lower the height of the cabin, unless you're really short. With only 6' of standing headroom as it is, there's not room to lower the height; if anything, extending the doghouse aft would have the effect of visually lowering the height; higher things that are longer look lower than high things that are shorter.

Note also that the Roths had sufficient cockpit space left after their cabin extension. And since Whisper was a much larger boat, what they did won't necessarily translate to your boat. That doesn't mean it's not worth mocking up and considering; it may well be just the ticket for you. Or not.

There are plenty of visual tricks to minimize any additional bulk. That's really the side issue here, though. The main issue is whether the extension would accomplish what you want and then, if so, how to build it attractively and strongly. I don't see it making a huge overall change in the boat's appearance; we're only talking about 18" additional length or less. If you are going to have a dodger, then that pretty much would hide anything aft anyway.

To my way of thinking, if you're going this route, then it brings up all the other areas of any Triton that might require addressing to achieve your goal. Tritons have many positive attributes, but when one starts trying to rebuild them and change their overall concept too extensively, perhaps it's time to consider that maybe it's not the right boat for your plans.

I'm all for customizing any boat to suit individual needs, but sometimes it can be a little like making a square peg fit into a round hole. A Triton isn't the ultimate offshore boat, after all. Capable, perhaps, but not so perfect for the task that it's worth reconceiving the entire boat. The main qualities that make Tritons attractive--potentially--for this sort of thing are their low initial cost, generally sound construction, and sea kindly design and sailing qualities. Within this, I think you have to accept certain limitations of what the boat can be.

Anything is possible. It's only a matter of time and money. Just be sure it accomplishes what you are truly looking for. Regardless, it's kind of fun to think about for some reason. I enjoy considering things that represent a real challenge.

[Rachel]

I can see Tim's point - that if one has to do too much modifying, perhaps there's another boat that better suits. OTOH, no boat is probably going to be just right, if you're the sort that likes to tinker, and a Triton is a great basic platform for tinkering with (as evidenced by the Daysailor, Robert-the-Grey's yawl with it's neat interior mods, Joe's toe rails and eyebrows, etc.

In the case of my earlier layout musings (which, to-date, are nothing more than musings), I sometimes remind myself that the interior layouts of these boats were heavily influenced by the marketing of the day as "family racer/cruisers," and as such it was all about sleeping four, and not about making a great layout for one or two. OTOH, sometimes after musing about this-or-that idea, I come back around and think the original layout isn't so bad after all :grin:

It is really fun to scheme, and when I saw the Cape Dory 30 "B layout" for the first time it was nice to see one of my plans in 3D.

It's not in my skill-set, but there must be a way to try some of these ideas out on the computer (I'm more of a cardboard mockup type).

Keep us posted!

Rachel

[Triton106]

Hi All,

Thank you very much for your insights and honest opinions. I agree that finding the soluation to the "perfect boat" that meet all of our expectations is a part of the joy and agony of why I love sailing. It is a pursuit of an impossible dream since a "perfect boat" simply does not exist (in my view) but it can also be a lot fun (many people's opinion). In this case I am trying to find a solution based on Triton a "perfect boat" that meet the following criteria:

1. It will sleep five on a short term basis, like a weekend, since I have three little children.

2. An offshore capable boat for one day I plan to do a solo circumnavigation.

3. An fun daysailor that I can take out single handedly on an impromptu basis that does not require me to round up crew.

4. An affordable boat which will not eat up my children's future college education funds (and medical school or other graduate school funds).

5. A small enough boat that I can handle (including maintanence) even in my older age (I am not that old yet but I am sure the age issue will come up - evidence by Webb Chiles' recent introspection of the age issue - Cruising World).

I agree Triton is not going to meet all of the above criteria but I am not sure if other boats will either. I have thought about buying something like a Tayana 37 (I even visited their factory in Taiwan near where my wife's hometown of Kaoshiung), an used Ingrid (which Tim talked me out of), a Cape Dory 36 (all of them are on the east coast which make it impossible to evaluate for west coast sailors), and a Rafiki 37 (beautifully restored but has cored hull which I don't trust). I am sure there are dozens other boats that could fit the bill but will also not be the perfect boat for me.

Based on everyone's feedback I am not going to proceed with the modification I mentioned (if I did I would not trust anyone else for the job other than Tim). I also thought all of the interior modification options Rachel mentioned. I may yet persue the mid-galley option (i.e. moving ice box and galley forward, aft of the bulkhead that separate the head from the saloon. For now, I will have to attend to other more urgent issues such as bottom and hull painting (another choice question, white, dark blue, red, why did Herreshoff say white is the only color for boats?) Another day, another time I will decide what to do with the galley issue and engine access issue.


Best regards,

[Hirilondë]

1. It will sleep five on a short term basis, like a weekend, since I have three little children.

2. An offshore capable boat for one day I plan to do a solo circumnavigation.

3. An fun daysailor that I can take out single handedly on an impromptu basis that does not require me to round up crew.

4. An affordable boat which will not eat up my children's future college education funds (and medical school or other graduate school funds).

5. A small enough boat that I can handle (including maintanence) even in my older age (I am not that old yet but I am sure the age issue will come up - evidence by Webb Chiles' recent introspection of the age issue - Cruising World).

You don't want much do you? :)

I know it's been said here before, but: everything is a compromise. Good luck finding you best balance of variables.

[Zach]

I've thought about this one as well...

Though I'm thinking something a little more hidden from a side profile view.

1. Taking the coaming height on each side and cutting off the fiberglass of the cabin trunk, out to the beam under the bridge deck. Then building two fiberglass boxes that aren't visible unless you are standing in the cockpit or looking at the boat aft from the dock.

I think the height could be low enough to be a decent prop for a pillow, and so long as you trust the traveller not to take off your toes good enough to for lounging around underway.

Negative is it adds another height difference between the cockpit sole and the deck when going forward... but provides some protection to the compass/gauges mounted on either side of the companionway.

I've got a sketch of it that I'm working on, but haven't finished it up quite yet.

Zach

[Triton106]

Zach,

That's very creative on your part. The only thing I can think of that could be an issue is that when you are sailing in conditions where sprays are flying (which is quite a bit here in the San Francisco Bay Area) you cannot comfortablly get under the dodger (i.e. no place to sit under it except the bridge deck directly in front of the companion way). Keep us posted of your developments though. It's fascinating how creative Triton owners tend to be.

Best regards,

[Zach]

Thanks Ray,

Had a few minutes and did what I envision the interior to look like.



Got to thinking about the dodger problem and wondered about raising a portion the same size as one of those square throwable cushions. On the cockpit side back to the bulkhead wall have two little cubbies for winches, GPS, etc. Sort of like the glove box on a lot of run abouts, hinged polycarbonate face and gasket to keep it somewhat water resistant.

Then again the dodger would need to be that much higher... and probably is counter productive to going to weather, or seeing around the blasted thing when its nice out. I don't think I'm going to pursue this idea any further because of that!

Zach

[jollyboat]

Well these thoughts and ideas are interesting and understandable. Having owned a Triton for sometime I will agree that it does not take long to realize the Triton's strengths and weaknesses. When I sold 346 I knew the day that I accepted the check and handed over the keys that I would again own another Triton as weaknesses aside it is a great boat basically the way it was designed.
The Triton, like most boats was designed to meet the needs of both circumstance and the widest audience possible. This is very evident when reading the original advertisments that were being used to market the Triton. In trying to build a fine sailing craft, racer, overnighter and family weekender there is bound to be compromise. That is a lot to ask of 28 foot sailboat built to the CCA rule. After recognizing the attributes of the Triton as a solid sailor - it's shortcomings in other areas are quickly evident. Throughout it's history, attempts at improving the Triton have been as much a part of the Triton's legacy as anything.
In putting 346 back to rights, I found that if I worked my needs into what the boat has to offer instead of what I thought might be "better" that the Triton offers all that I can reasonably ask of it. There will be be changes that we make to meet specific needs or preferences but under our want to cram or stretch our Tritons into fifty footers lies a very capable 28 foot sailboat that if sailed and managed smartly can offer all the fun that it was designed to do.

[Triton106]

Brian,

Well said (there is an echo of Pidgeon and Moitessier in your writing). I do admit sometime I am very stubborn and not realistic. That said I think it is part of the fun of sailing to play naval architect (for me at least). One thing I have always thought of as a weakness in Triton as an offshore boat (which it is not designed to do but capable of doing as Tim said) is that the galley is too small and cockpit *proportionally* too large. By expanding the cabin trunk I can at the same time reduce the cockpit size. Although large cockpit is nice when it is anchored in tropical safe harbor it is not ideal during passages. I have drawn out what the modified Triton lines will look like below. It does not look too different compared to the original.



Another idea (similar to Rachel's) I thought of to expand the galley is to create a trotter box on starboard side. I have converted the hanging locker into a wash sink with direct drain through a dedicated seacock below it. I have to take some measures to see how much space I can add to galley by doing that. To add a small non-gimballed stove I think I will need at least 16 inches space (with stove installed athwartship). (Question - how can I reroute the drain hose to open up to a larger trotter box?) I found that Sea Sprite 28 has a similar layout except that its trotter box is on port.



I welcome any feedback of this ideas or experiences if you have done this conversion.

Fairwinds,

[Rachel]

I noticed that the Sea Sprite brochure said "forward head" so I got curious about how the rest of the boat was arranged. The head isn't in the forepeak (I thought maybe that's what they meant), but I do like the arrangement. It's probably reversed from how you'd do it on a Triton, as Ray mentioned, but basically there's a trotter box under the head sink.

They also show a grate in the center and an extending sink faucet, meaning you could shower there, although I wonder about having to wipe all that down just after showering. It might be nice to have the option though.

In the galley, I don't think my back would be too excited to twist and lean into that sink. I guess they didn't switch it with the stove because of fire/heat on the overhead. I might be tempted to either switch the sink and stove, or perhaps to change something from side to side. I guess one of the galley things has to draw the short straw, but I know I use the sink almost more than anything else, so it probably wouldn't be that.

I note also that the starboard berth is an extension berth. Nice layout, all-in-all. The boat has a 9' beam, but basically seems similar in size to the Triton. The v-berth goes a bit more to a point, so they may have gained a bit of space that way, and the lazarette deck may be a bit shorter.









I see one owner added an oven, but there was a neat original storage door beneath the stove (of which I can't figure out where I saw the photo):










I like the table; I see a couple of different leg styles:







As far as altering your current head-sink drain -- how does it run now? I bet folks here would have some ideas once they saw it.

For more on that -- Robert the Grey here managed to put in a combination head-sink/woodstove/trotter box on his Triton, Whisper, so you might search out some of his photos.

Nothing like a little boat musing on a cold, damp, rainy day :)

R.

[Zach]

Rachel,

Thats a really slick interior arrangement. Looks like a HUGE 23 footer.

Saw this head sink drain on Geoff Aussies Ariel on the pearson/ariel board.



Looks pretty funky to my eyes, but would let a trotter box be under it, and direct the drain water somewhere else.

(If I keep seeing Alberg line drawings with constellation rudders I'm going to have to build one!)

[Triton106]

Thanks Rachel for the Sea Sprite 27 pictures. I like its layout too. I don't think it is too difficult to do the trotter box modification. Extending the cabin trunk is a lot more challenging and I am not prepared to do that now. Here is a picture of a trotter box conversion on Whisper. Unfortunately, Robert did not describe how he routed the sink drain.



My current setup has the sink drain directly through a dedicated seacock right under the sink. But that requires the hose to go straight down from the sink as well which is not necessary since all I plan to use the sink for is to brush teeth and wash face. Some might think it is a wast of space to dedicate a sink on Tritons to brushing and washing. I just prefer not to use the galley sink for that purpose. Besides, I think eventually I would like to add a grate under the sole between the head and sink as well. I know it is a lot work to wipe off after a shower but I cannot imagine my wife would agree to take shower in the cockpit.

The table setup in the pictures you posted are very nice. However, my experience with tables that folds up are not positive. They tend to not be as solid as the ones mounted on the sole permanently.

Best regards,

[Rachel]

By the way Zach, the photos are from a Sea Sprite 27 (Luders design), not the Sea Sprite 23 (Alberg). I guess you were wondering how they fill all THAT in the 22-1/2-footer :D

I'd guess that folks just run the sink drain on a slant over to the side somehow -- or maybe slope it over the the hullside and then down, then under the berth to the seacock...? (That Aussie one doesn't look like it would drain.) I wouldn't mind seeing a photo of the arrangement from someone who's done it. I wonder if Robert did sell Whisper?

R.

[Zach]

Rachel,

I sat here with my mouth hanging open looking at the pictures, trying to make sense of it all. (Grin!)

[Tim]

The Triton's galley space as originally built is virtually useless as a real galley. Expanding it to work better and incorporate basic conveniences is possible in about 2,347 ways, but each one requires a neighboring change here, an adjacent compromise there. Galley modifications tend to affect the entire main cabin, if not the entire boat. Keep this in mind for all planning.

What you do, and how you accomplish it, depends on which compromises you're willing or able to make, and to what extent you're considering modifying the boat. To my way of thinking, a long-term consideration of serious sailing and cruising virtually requires thinking through every aspect of the boat, from interior to exterior, and determining the ramifications each considered change will have on the other parts of the boat. Some possible changes work better than others, and usually personal needs and taste are big factors in the eventual changes made.

Figuring out what to do comes first; determining the details of how to make it all happen will fall into place once you determine what it is you're actually doing. Try to avoid combining the two at these initial stages, as it's far too easy to get bogged down in possibly irrelevant details. This isn't to say you shouldn't think ahead, but most of these issues have a nice way of working themselves out once you're faced with the reality, whereas it's difficult or impossible in a conceptual stage to envision workable solutions to problems for which you don't even yet know the real details. There's always a solution to even the most tricky problem, but you won't always know them before you start. That's the nature of this sort of work.

[Rachel]

Expanding it to work better and incorporate basic conveniences is possible in about 2,347 ways...

Right, and I only listed 1,926 ;^)

Figuring out what to do comes first; determining the details of how to make it all happen will fall into place once you determine what it is you're actually doing. Try to avoid combining the two at these initial stages, as it's far too easy to get bogged down in possibly irrelevant details.

That is such good advice. I found that when working on my cabin. In the designing stage, I had to get over this hump wherein I found that I was only designing things that I knew how to actually make build (which limited things, to say the least). I still did want to keep it simple, but figuring out that I should figure out what I wanted to accomplish before figuring out how to build it was a big step... and one that I seem to so easily forget!

e.g. I don't know how many times I've lain awake at night trying to figure out how to structurally accomplish some task on the boat, when what I really needed to do was figure out what I wanted to end up with.

Of course on the board it is fun to "talk through" different scenarios because you sometimes get ideas you would never have though of otherwise.

Rachel

[Triton106]

Tim,

Thanks for the words of wisdom - decide what to do first then decide how to do it. Definitely a lot of think about before taking out sawzall. But I am fairly certain about the galley modification. The discussion on this topic here definitely helped me in making that decision. I am not so sure about the trunk modification yet. I will also talk to the local Svendsen boat yard about it and get their input when I haul my boat out for bottom painting next month. I don't know if that is something that they have seen or done before. Other than Hal Roth's Whisper I have not seen or heard anyone done that. Tim, I don't mean to be a pest but if you were to do it how would you approach it? Can you talk about it at high level?

Thanks and best regards,

[Robert The Gray]

I lead the outlet to an above the water line exit with no sea cock. I did not intend to use the boat for extensive off shore cruising. It works great, and makes a gurgling sound when on starboard tack.

r

[Triton106]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your idea. BTW, good to hear that you sold your boat. Whoever bought it must be a real lucky guy. You sure turned your Triton into a work of art.

I took some measurements today to see how I can execute the trotter box conversion. Since the seacock is directly under the sink and sits pretty high even with a 90 degree tail pipe I cannot figure out how to extent the trotter box beyond the seacock. The distance between the seacock and the bulkhead is approximately 8 inches. Which means that that the maximum depth for the trotter box will be just that. I took some measurements of the existing galley and figured that I can turn the sink around so that it is aligned athwartship and that will free up 2". Furthermore, I can move it aft about 3". That will free up a total of 5". Combined with the 8" from the trotter box I can squeeze in a Dickinson two burner stove mounted athwartship.



Then I had an epiphany - my wife is only 5'4" and the berth is 6'0" now. That means that I don't really need to go through the trouble of adding the trotter box after all! I can simply shorten the berth by 8" which will create all of the space I need to install the Dickinson.

The final layout will look something like this:



Well, I will wait until I finish the bottom painting job before attempting the galley project. I will post some pictures of the project.

Thank you all for your help.

Best regards,

[Rachel]

Hi Ray,

Here are a couple of things I thought of while reading your post:

1) If it's truly limiting what you want to end up with, moving a seacock isn't that hard. Especially compared to something like extending the cabin. Once I got a bit comfortable with the whole process, I filled-and-moved one of my head seacocks even though it was only a matter of 6" or so difference (the hole was also a bit big, so that made it easier to justify, but still it's not that bad). Not that you want to do sloppy work, but since it's not above the waterline there's no fine finish to worry about.

2) Maybe your wife will want to check the shorter berth with a mockup over a night. I'm 5'5" and I know I wouldn't want to regularly sleep in a berth that was that short. It just doesn't leave enough room for the pillow, etc. I guess maybe people who are 6' tall sleep on a berth that's their length all the time, so perhaps it's just that we shorter people are used to having more extra space.

Also, if you are going to be sleeping on the saloon settees (I prefer that), then a trotter box is a wonderful place to just chunk your bedding into in the morning; it gets rid of some of the annoyance of "converting" every day. (Which is funny, because it's annoying all out-of-proportion to the four minutes it actually takes.)

On a boat without trotter boxes, I took the "guts" out of one of those large throw pillows (22" x22"?) that had a zippered cover, and then I'd just roll up my bedding and put it in that for the day. Worked out pretty well, although I still liked the trotter box better.

R.

[Triton106]

Hmmm... Rachel, I have to admit I have not thought through carefully enough. I am 6'2" and the port berth is exactly that length. Although it is not as comfortable as the bed at home it works pretty well for me. Nevertheless, your point about other benefits of the trotter box is well taken. I have thought of create a trotter box by basically enclosing the area behind the short bulkhead (Tritons have a short bulkhead that goes perpendicular to the main bulkhead) for two reasons: (1) I have a Dickinson solid fuel space heater in that space about two feet above the settee, the trotter box can prevent people unknowingly sit too close to it or kick on it at night, and (2) for storing bedding, personal belonging like you said.

I will think about what you said about moving the seacock. I am hauling it out for bottom painting latter this month. That might be the time to do it. It will potentially open up enough space to enable me to install a stove with an oven. That will be real luxury. Maybe I can fit in a double sink, a microwave oven, a plasma TV... OK, that was a nice dream for someday.

Thanks for your ideas.

Best regards,

[Rachel]

Hi Ray,

I guess it must be that we shorter people are used to having more "extra" room then. If I were 6'2" I'd need a really long berth :)

I guess my only other comment after looking over your plan above, is that I might want to switch the stove and sink around (which I realize you couldn't do if you were putting in an oven, but which you could do if you were utilizing the drop-in stovetop). I say that for a couple of reasons: 1) I interact with the sink much more often, so I'd rather have that in the prime, "I can stand straight in front of it without leaning over" position; and 2) I wouldn't want to be leaning over an active burner/hot pan to be using the sink.

On the other hand, it might not be that much of an issue in real life; it may just look that way in the drawing. I think Tim's Glissando is set up something like this (since he has an oven), and I haven't heard him mention any issues.

R.

[Zach]

I will think about what you said about moving the seacock. I am hauling it out for bottom painting latter this month. That might be the time to do it. It will potentially open up enough space to enable me to install a stove with an oven. That will be real luxury. Maybe I can fit in a double sink, a microwave oven, a plasma TV... OK, that was a nice dream for someday.

Reminds me of a dream I had a few weeks ago. Stepping out of the shower just aft of the starboard side of the companionway.

I woke up from a dead sleep going, good grief... even for a dream THAT isn't happening!

(Really big grin)

Zach

[Triton106]

Thanks Rachel. I am glad I have you doing all my thinking for me. I agree that although it may not be an issue for Tim and others who installed stoves forward of the galley sink it could very well be an issue for me if I followed through with my thinking of turning the sink athwartship and moving it 3" further aft. I will have to replan the layout.

In any case, here is an old picture of the saloon space heater that I mentioned in my previous posting. I was thinking of creating a trotter box right under the heater. Now, I need to think through whether or not I want to extend the trotter box into the space behind the bulkhead. And if so, how I want to route the drain.



Thanks again for your thoughtfulness and regards,

[Zach]

http://www.hometone.org/entry/sleek-sin ... ur-galley/

Thought that was kind of slick... for a non-gimbaled type stove anyway. Although if it was arranged with the sink closest to the operator it might not be all that big a deal. (Or at least ease in cleanup if the inevitable happens!)

The only counter space on that whole side of the galley would be the chopping board dropped into the sink.

19 inches by 19 inches... If memory serves theres 33 inches from the bulkhead to the edge of the galley unit. Might put one burner under the cockpit though... hmm.

Edit: For the life of me I can't find any literature that states what it runs on.

[Rachel]

That's kind of cute. I can't think it would be anything other than gas, by the description. This is noted on the Plastimo site; does anyone know if it refers to LP in some way?

"All models are supplied with injectors designed for 30 mbar pressure."

There's a link to a .pdf User and Installation menu for it at the link I posted below, so it might say more. My Adobe program is feeling huffy tonight so I haven't read it.

I love this from the site Zach referenced:

"Quick and easy to install, the stainless steel sink/hob comes fitted with flame failure device so you don’t burn the boat down frying hams."

I know that's right up there on my cooking list! 1) Fry hams; 2)...

Here's a URL to it on Plastimo's European site. The photo is of a two burner (erm... hob) model, but it says there is a one burner model as well.

Edited to say "Argh, for some reason this only brings up the search page results and not the individual item. If you go to the last page (6) of the results, it's the very last item on the page.

http://tinyurl.com/6mvexn

Europeans always get all the neat compact stuff (especially when it comes to houses).

[Triton106]

It's indeed a very cool looking unit, albeit not as heavy duty as the Dickinson unit. The price is right too (only about 90 British Pounds which is about $180).

I looked up the pdf which I cannot figure out how to post here. Here are the text only;

Réf. 53285: 1 burner hob + sink set
Réf. 53286 : 2 burners hob + sink set
MOUNTING INSTRUCTIONS
1. Mount the control knob(s) n°1.
The appliance must be connected to the gas supply with a
non adjustable pressure regulator which complies with ISO
10239 directive. This regulator reduces the gas pressure
between the gas cylinder and the appliance and must be
designed for the following standardized pressure :
BUTANE : 28 mbar (11.2 wg)
PROPANE : 37 mbar (14.8 wg)

I definitely would like to consider it as an option. Thanks Zach.

Best regards,

[Tim]

Here are a couple more thoughts to keep in mind:

1. Don't ever let existing installations limit your thoughts on how to modify. Rearranging your interior around existing through hulls, for example, would be short-sighted and could severely limit what you can do from a practical standpoint. If you're unwilling to move a seacock, you might rethink doing any of these changes.

2. Don't overlook the possibility (liklihood) of routing your sink drain to a sump for later pumpout, whether electric or manual. This eliminates all the problems with sink location, height, and drainage. If you're really going to take this boat offshore, you want a sink that can be usable all the time; direct connection to an overboard fitting tends to require shutoff at extreme angles of heel that would render the sink useless during that time. I'd suggest a sump. You may also find that sump useful for draining an icebox, for example, or a second sink (if desired), or what have you.

3. Overnighting in a tight berth and living with one for months or years on end are two different things. I think you're going to want to explore the possibility of keeping berths as long as possible to ensure your long-term sleeping comfort. Maybe it's not an issue, but I'd be wary of allowing some brief usage to color your thoughts for an extremely different future use.

4. Some people eat beans and rice all the time and need only the most rudimentary cooking device. All well and good. But if you like real food and plan to ever cook it on board, be sure you don't compromise your galley, particularly if you're going to be significantly modifying the boat to accommodate the new galley. Everyone's needs are different, so be sure what you do, and how you set things up, and which equipment you use, suits you, not someone else. And be sure you plan the galley so that you can actually use it underway--critical given your plans. Food isn't just a fun thing--it's essential that you can turn out hot food at all times when you're planning a journey like yours.

5. That combo sink/stove looks great for a weekender, but I can't see that doing the trick in an offshore boat. Imagine trying to get some water in a sloppy sea while cooking on the burners 2" away...good luck keeping the water off the flame. Just a thought. Be sure the equipment and installations match the intended purpose and your own personal and honestly intended use (not someone else's).

6. There are plenty of good ideas being batted about here, but be sure to take all this information and use it only to figure out what works best for you, given your needs, the necessary compromises (always), cost, difficulty, and all other factors. What you do will end up being very different from what any other individual would do, so consider all the advice with that in mind and plan your galley.

[Triton106]

Tim stated:

4. Some people eat beans and rice all the time and need only the most rudimentary cooking device. All well and good. But if you like real food and plan to ever cook it on board, be sure you don't compromise your galley, particularly if you're going to be significantly modifying the boat to accommodate the new galley. Everyone's needs are different, so be sure what you do, and how you set things up, and which equipment you use, suits you, not someone else. And be sure you plan the galley so that you can actually use it underway--critical given your plans. Food isn't just a fun thing--it's essential that you can turn out hot food at all times when you're planning a journey like yours.

How true. I really need to think a lot of it through. I am caught between two vastly different intentions when I am talking about these intented modifications. On one hand I only intent to use it for weekend daysailing with family with occasional anchoring out overnight once in a while in the next five years. On the other hand my long term plan is to do some more serious blue water cruising in about five years time. I am trying to have to best of both worlds which are often colliding violently. Case in point the neat little sink and hob set are perfect for weekends and don't take up that much space. However, I won't be able to use it for long range cruising from all practical point of view. Maybe what I should do is to find a short term solution for the next five years and then redo everything when I am ready to go cruising. In fact, the more I think about it the more logical it sounds. As long as I don't do anything now that will make it hard and or expensive to redo in five years time.

[Rachel]

Maybe what I should do is to find a short term solution for the next five years and then redo everything when I am ready to go cruising. In fact, the more I think about it the more logical it sounds. As long as I don't do anything now that will make it hard and or expensive to redo in five years time.

I think that sounds like a great plan. If you were going to spend the next five years with the boat on the hard, refitting slowly for the big trip, then your scenario might be different. But in this case you know you'll be spending the next five years weekend sailing with family and friends. I like the idea of fitting the boat out appropriately for this now, with the option of doing an offshore-oriented refit "down the road."

1) You'll have the boat set up right for what you know you'll be doing now, which will be enjoyable.

2) When you do refit, it will be with years of experience on the boat, in which time you'll become crusty and opinionated ;)

3) You'll be able to fry hams to your heart's content on the cute little hob.

R.

[Bluenose]

I'm a bit late commenting about this stove but I ran across it early in my Bolero research. I though it fit right in on this six metre.

[Triton106]

Thanks Bill. The sink/hob looks very nice on this 6 meter. For daysailing/weekender this is maybe just the way to go. It's curious to note that there is no water faucet installed. Not sure it is to be installed or the owner has another way of getting water.

BTW, I am really enjoying the progess on Bolero. It's a real beauty. I remember sailing the Shields when I took sailing classes with OCC in Newport Beach. They still use Shields for their keels classes.

Best regards,

[Bluenose]

Thanks Bill. The sink/hob looks very nice on this 6 meter. For daysailing/weekender this is maybe just the way to go. It's curious to note that there is no water faucet installed. Not sure it is to be installed or the owner has another way of getting water.

You are probably right. Although I have big culinary plans for Bolero with much less than this stove.

BTW, I am really enjoying the progess on Bolero. It's a real beauty. I remember sailing the Shields when I took sailing classes with OCC in Newport Beach. They still use Shields for their keels classes.

Best regards,

Thanks. Yep it is quite a site seeing all those Shields sailing at OCC.

[Zach]

Hmm... (Thanks for the picture Rachel)

[Rachel]

Zach,

I thought of your proposed "galley niches" when I pasted that photo in. It's always nice to see a real example of something you're mulling over, isn't it.

R.

[Rachel]

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned a layout modification option that would put the head in the (former) v-berth area, thus making for more galley aft. Lo and behold, a couple of days ago, a fellow on the Triton mailing list (Harry James) casually mentioned that his Triton came to him with such a (PO-modified) arrangement.

A couple of us begged him for photos, and he sent a batch in to the National Triton Association MIR page, where they were posted today. I really enjoyed getting a look at a real-life version of what has been my favorite theoretical modification. Maybe I won't keep it theoretical now, as I quite like it.

Here's one photo, and then a link to the page:

(Check out the companionway door)


http://tritonclass.org/mir/144ps4.html

5) Eliminate the (I think) semi-structural bulkhead between the main cabin and the head/hanging locker ... and gain the corresponding space at the galley, aft. This way you get the good galley with under-counter space as well, plus two full-length settees in the main saloon. In this scenario, the head and hanging locker would be eliminated, and the v-berth would become a large head/locker/sink/stowage area...

A variation on #5 would leave a narrow set of lockers for stowage and or built in bookshelves or the like (10-12" wide?) where the head and hanging locker were. This would either reduce the galley or induce trotter boxes at the forward ends of the settees (great for shoving bedding into...
Rachel

[Zach]

Rachel...

Wow!

(Kind of wish the pictures didn't highlight how much space is actually in a Triton... Gotta rethink everything now! GRIN!)

Zach

[Rachel]

I know, it makes it look HUGE, doesn't it? Even though there's more built in storage than usual.

On the other hand, now maybe you won't have to build in those potentially-problematic "cockpit cubbies" in order to get more galley space.

The one thing I'd like to toss in somehow would be one of Britton's partial cut-away "windows." I really like the texture and depth that gave things (it's sounding a bit lofty now, isn't it).

R.

[dcstrng]

I ran across it early in my Bolero research. I though it fit right in on this six metre....

I'm a bit late watching this thread, but what a great idea for our even more snug Bristol 24... the day isn't a waste, I learned something.

[Triton106]

Thanks Rachel for posting Harry's cabin layout. It's a really creative use of the galley space under the bridge deck. I think I will steal that idea. I am not so sure of totally eliminating the V-berth. If you sail alone or double hand that will make sense (actually Eric Hiscock's Wanderer III is laid out that way, but he and his wife were always double handing). Even then I just think it is nice to be able to stretch out on the V-berth and if you have kids you know they love the V-berth!

[MikeD]

What kind of wood was used in Harry's galley? That is really a unique look.

If you still wanted to retain your v-berth and full length settees with the above galley set up, you could do something like this Invicta 26. (I know the foot cubby things have been talked about before...)

[Rachel]

Or, if you look at the V-berth on #144, you see that you could have a single berth along the port side of the (former) v-berth. Either with the head under or with it under the center. It almost looks like you could make a double berth with the foot at the after end, and then running diagonally forward. Of course if you really want the V-berth it is probably better not to go with this layout. I could see where a single to port might be nice though; it would be a place to "get away" and read - or for a kid berth.

I'm curious about what kind of wood it is too. Harry said he didn't know - the boat interior was like that when he bought it (lucky dog).

R.

[Zach]

Rachel,

I'm pleased to note that you are a bad influence... (Grin)

Started gently removing the starboard bulkhead yesterday (To keep the old parts as patterns!) Without the 2 inch lip for the door frame walking to the bow actually becomes easy!

Anyone with thoughts/ponderings on having the head on center or off center under the V-berth?

Zach

[Rachel]

Rachel,

I'm pleased to note that you are a bad influence...

I'm only glad to have been of assistance. Anyone else need encouragement to start chopping? ;^)

I removed a divider/cabinet from the cruising boat (between galley and saloon) and it was an amazing improvement (even improved stowage, counter-intuitively). Still, I had major second thoughts about 1/3 of the way in.

Started gently removing the starboard bulkhead yesterday (To keep the old parts as patterns!) Without the 2 inch lip for the door frame walking to the bow actually becomes easy!

Well don't worry about us; we'll just imagine what it looks like.

Or you could post a photo...

Anyone with thoughts/ponderings on having the head on center or off center under the V-berth?

Ponderings: On-center would be good on either tack, but then you have to either look at the head all the time in your "long view" forward, or conceal it. To the side might be better if you want to put a water tank or shower center. Actually, I'm not clear on whether you are planning to keep the v-berth, proper, or if you just mean "fore-cabin." I guess I'm thinking no v-berth in my musings.

A photo really would help - did I mention?

R.

[bcooke]