I have come across a few negative comments about Seafarer quality ("built to a price"), but they are very vague.
Has anyone here had (or heard of) any actual experience?
Edit: typo
Seafarer knowledge?
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Seafarer knowledge?
Last edited by Duncan on Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cape Dory 10 & 27
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Duncan - I'm afraid the definitive answer is "it depends".
The Dutch built Meridians are reputedly extremely solid. My '69 Meridian 26 - among the early US built Seafarers - not so much. It's certainly not in the same build quality league as my Tartan 27, which at roughly one foot longer and the same beam and draft is about twice the weight of the Seafarer. (I have to say, however, that Rhodes' design is a much prettier boat than the Sparkman & Stephens Tartan.)
My general perception is that Seafarers built in the US became increasingly lighter and less solid as production continued. It's also worth noting that at least through the sixties Seafarer sold hulls for owner finishing - you can imagine the resultant range of design and finish craftsmanship. Mine featured a fine contact paper veneer on the bulkheads.
What year and model are you considering?
The Dutch built Meridians are reputedly extremely solid. My '69 Meridian 26 - among the early US built Seafarers - not so much. It's certainly not in the same build quality league as my Tartan 27, which at roughly one foot longer and the same beam and draft is about twice the weight of the Seafarer. (I have to say, however, that Rhodes' design is a much prettier boat than the Sparkman & Stephens Tartan.)
My general perception is that Seafarers built in the US became increasingly lighter and less solid as production continued. It's also worth noting that at least through the sixties Seafarer sold hulls for owner finishing - you can imagine the resultant range of design and finish craftsmanship. Mine featured a fine contact paper veneer on the bulkheads.
What year and model are you considering?
Tartan 27 #77
Seafarer Meridian 26
Jet 14 #952
Seafarer Meridian 26
Jet 14 #952
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The one I'm looking at is a 1974 34.gjvp wrote:What year and model are you considering?
One thing I like is that it doesn't have a liner, unlike the others I've seen photos of.
Your comments on weight, and comparison to Tartan, are very interesting to me. I'd noticed that the Safarer 34 (keel/centreboard model) and the Tartan 34C are very similar in form. Most of the dimensions are almost the same, which made me sit up and pay attention!
I was surprised to see that the Tartan seems to be about 1,100 lbs lighter (11,200 vs. 12,300, 5,000 ballast vs. 4,800). Apart from the ballast, then, the Tartan would be 6,200 lbs, whereas the Seafarer would be 7,500, or about 20% heavier.
Maybe the numbers aren't right, or there's something I've missed?
(The scantlings, equipment, etc. are summarized here)
Cape Dory 10 & 27
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We're pretty happy with our Meridian 25. Of course it IS a Dutch built boat, hull #10, and is probably as well built as any of the boats on here. Certainly as well as the Ariels and Tritons I've seen.
I have a friend on a 30 and having looked that one over ( I don't know the year) I'd say THAT boat is a well built one also.
Build quality purportedly went down after the move to the US, as the years went by and the company got closer to going under. I'd say it depends very much on the particular boat in question in later years.
There is a SeaFarer group who exist on SailNet. You can find the message list here-
http://list.sailnet.net/read/?forum=seafarer
It's an email based list, which I'm not all that fond of, but there they are.
I have a friend on a 30 and having looked that one over ( I don't know the year) I'd say THAT boat is a well built one also.
Build quality purportedly went down after the move to the US, as the years went by and the company got closer to going under. I'd say it depends very much on the particular boat in question in later years.
There is a SeaFarer group who exist on SailNet. You can find the message list here-
http://list.sailnet.net/read/?forum=seafarer
It's an email based list, which I'm not all that fond of, but there they are.
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Seafarer 31
A friend, a good sailor, sailed a later-model, American Seafarer 31 yawl to Hawaii and back. The "to" part was in January a few years ago. Boom broke and inner liner got a six foot tear in it when the boat fell off a wave in a gale. Boat got him there and back, but a more substantial boat might have done it better.
1964 Frisco Flyer "Sumatra"
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Duncan,
I own a 1971 Seafarer 31 foot yawl, a Bill Tripp design. I own it not because I set out to buy a Seafarer, but because it just happened to be available when I happened to have the money.
The hull is solid; no problems there. The fiberglass is hand-laid and of appropriately beefy dimension. The boat is now in refit mode and I have found numerous voids in the deck which could have been the unavoidable consequence of all the little molded-in shapes such as dorade boxes, grab-rail mounts, waterways, etc., but it's not reassuring to find fiberglass mat used in the deck. Having said that, the deck has stayed solid and I have found no areas needing recore. This is probably due to care in sealing every deck hole with epoxy, something later models did not enjoy.
The hull-to-deck joint is about an inch and a half of poured epoxy. I've had no problems with the joint, but have questioned the builder/designer's practice of using u-bolts seated through the deck joint as chainplates. Again, I've never had a problem, but save an occasional hurricane, this boat has never been subject to true off-shore stresses. I've toyed lately with the idea of adding chainplate knees, but I toy with a lot of ideas.
The yawl rig is pretty much an afterthought. I've noticed later models rig their mizzen masts with four shrouds. Mine had four shrouds plus a stay ( a freind called it a "triadic" ) running from the top of the main mast to the top of the mizzen. It is a bit of a bear to rig. There is something of a compression post in the aft lazarette for the mizzen, but I have beefed up the load bearing surface for the mizzen tabernacle as well.
Yes, the interior sports plywood with contact paper. There is also solid teak trim. My plan, like that of many, is to replace the contact paper ply with either bead board of a contrasting birch ply. I have already built mohogany locker doors with cane inserts. From our perspective, the contact paper seems inordinately cheezy, but I've always felt that when viewed from a 1971 standpoint, it was a logical choice.
Another Seafarer trademark: the bomb-bay outboard motor doors, have been sealed shut on my particular model.
The boat sails well and her lines attract comments and compliments, even from power boaters. I would agree heartily that production shortcuts were taken. From my viewpoint, however, none of those shortcuts affected the boat's structural integrity. It is not an offshore boat and I don't believe it was even meant to be. It is not a Hinckley or a Swan or even a Triton. In the real world of Hunters and Catalinas and (I shudder to even write it ) McGreggor 26x's, the boat stands out as being several cuts above.
I'm glad I own the boat. I look forward to the end of this refit and posting the "after" pictures. Even more so, I look forward to sailing her again and spending time with my five kids and wife on her.
Chris Miller
Lloyd, Florida
I own a 1971 Seafarer 31 foot yawl, a Bill Tripp design. I own it not because I set out to buy a Seafarer, but because it just happened to be available when I happened to have the money.
The hull is solid; no problems there. The fiberglass is hand-laid and of appropriately beefy dimension. The boat is now in refit mode and I have found numerous voids in the deck which could have been the unavoidable consequence of all the little molded-in shapes such as dorade boxes, grab-rail mounts, waterways, etc., but it's not reassuring to find fiberglass mat used in the deck. Having said that, the deck has stayed solid and I have found no areas needing recore. This is probably due to care in sealing every deck hole with epoxy, something later models did not enjoy.
The hull-to-deck joint is about an inch and a half of poured epoxy. I've had no problems with the joint, but have questioned the builder/designer's practice of using u-bolts seated through the deck joint as chainplates. Again, I've never had a problem, but save an occasional hurricane, this boat has never been subject to true off-shore stresses. I've toyed lately with the idea of adding chainplate knees, but I toy with a lot of ideas.
The yawl rig is pretty much an afterthought. I've noticed later models rig their mizzen masts with four shrouds. Mine had four shrouds plus a stay ( a freind called it a "triadic" ) running from the top of the main mast to the top of the mizzen. It is a bit of a bear to rig. There is something of a compression post in the aft lazarette for the mizzen, but I have beefed up the load bearing surface for the mizzen tabernacle as well.
Yes, the interior sports plywood with contact paper. There is also solid teak trim. My plan, like that of many, is to replace the contact paper ply with either bead board of a contrasting birch ply. I have already built mohogany locker doors with cane inserts. From our perspective, the contact paper seems inordinately cheezy, but I've always felt that when viewed from a 1971 standpoint, it was a logical choice.
Another Seafarer trademark: the bomb-bay outboard motor doors, have been sealed shut on my particular model.
The boat sails well and her lines attract comments and compliments, even from power boaters. I would agree heartily that production shortcuts were taken. From my viewpoint, however, none of those shortcuts affected the boat's structural integrity. It is not an offshore boat and I don't believe it was even meant to be. It is not a Hinckley or a Swan or even a Triton. In the real world of Hunters and Catalinas and (I shudder to even write it ) McGreggor 26x's, the boat stands out as being several cuts above.
I'm glad I own the boat. I look forward to the end of this refit and posting the "after" pictures. Even more so, I look forward to sailing her again and spending time with my five kids and wife on her.
Chris Miller
Lloyd, Florida
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Chris, thanks for all the great info, I think the picture is starting to come together for me now.
Your comments on the chainplates explain this retrofit I saw (seems like a darn good idea to me):
(from Sparrow refit).
Wayne, I'd heard stories of other boats that had similar failures falling off waves. It makes me wonder why molded-in stringers aren't more common - it seems to me like a simple and effective way to carry that sort of stress better. In the case of the Seafarer 34 I'm looking at, one of the things I like is that there's no liner. As a result, there are more (full and partial) bulkheads, so at least there is that extra support/rigidity.
Contact Paper
I love the marketing talk about this in the original brochure:
Your comments on the chainplates explain this retrofit I saw (seems like a darn good idea to me):
(from Sparrow refit).
Wayne, I'd heard stories of other boats that had similar failures falling off waves. It makes me wonder why molded-in stringers aren't more common - it seems to me like a simple and effective way to carry that sort of stress better. In the case of the Seafarer 34 I'm looking at, one of the things I like is that there's no liner. As a result, there are more (full and partial) bulkheads, so at least there is that extra support/rigidity.
Contact Paper
I love the marketing talk about this in the original brochure:
Again, the one I'm looking at has a mahogany interior, no contact paper. Too bad, in a way, since with the contact paper, you can always paint it white and call it a "Herreshoff interior" ;) Still, wood is good, and I'd much rather have dark wood than shiny plastic "woodgrain".Seafarer wrote:...Wood panels are finished using a sophisticated vacuum form vinyl clad process using 240 degrees of heat and 38 lbs per square inch of pressure. This modern process results in panel surfaces which have three times the abrasion resistance of Formica, yet retains the texture and grain colors of natural teak....This is Sea-Lux, beautiful to look at and even better to live with!
Cape Dory 10 & 27