Pearson Asymmetrics

[Tim]

While working to layout the installation of the new stern pulpit on Kaholee today, I discovered yet another interesting example of asymmetrical construction.

I set the pulpit up on the poop deck and aligned the two forward bases in about the same place relative to the nonskid and the raised portion of the deck where the traveler was. But something didn't seem right; the main part of the rail seemed to be skewed somehow, with the two after bases not lining up properly with the taffrail at all.

After I got up on the deck and eyeballed the pulpit, readjusting it to be square to the boat, as it were, I realized that it was the aft part of the
cockpit that was off kilter. Trying to line the pulpit up by aligning the bases with the nonskid line, which I took directly off the molding at the aft end of the cockpit, meant that the rail would skew. I threw a tape measure on in a couple places to check it out.

Here's the pulpit in the proper position. It's centered and properly aligned with the taffrail--that is, the curve of the pulpit matches the curve of the taffrail and transom profile--and the placement is otherwise visually correct, at least till you look at the nonskid.



Here's a measurement to the center of the port base from a fixed point:


And the corresponding starboard measurement, showing that the bases are the same distance forward of the stern:


Here's another measurement, this time to the aft port side of the cockpit molding (traveler step):


And the starboard, from the corresponding points:

[bcooke]

So, is the aft cockpit face crooked or could the transom itself be a bit off?

I would have thought either piece would have been easy to set up square to the rest of the boat. Do other Tritons exhibit this? Isn't the cockpit part of the deck mold? How could this happen?!

The biggest example on my boat so far was when I was fitting in a new sole for the V-berth. The two sides of the sole rest against the hull where the hull is curving quite a bit. The two sides of the sole had completely different profiles and the whole piece looked very bizarre. It fit when I dropped it in though. That V-berth section was a real eye opener in general for me into the build techniques at Bristol.

-Britton

[Figment]

hmmmm. My wrestling match with my pulpit doesn't seem so odd now.
I emerged victorious, but only because I don't have the two-tone paintjob or the lower rail.

What does it look like if you get the two forward legs to even-up?

[Hirilondë]

When I used to do siding on houses I would sometimes run into some pretty crooked houses. I found the best visual results will come from "cheating" as many places as possible in the smallest increments possible. We went by the adage that it doesn't have to be perfect, just has to look perfect.

I am doing a toe rail job at work now and just discovered one is almost an inch longer than the other. I made sure the limber holes and screw pattern didn't show this in any easy to notice reference by laying out from both ends "cheating" some measurements where least noticed. This isn't nearly the noticeable dilemma Tim has though.

[Tim]

So, is the aft cockpit face crooked or could the transom itself be a bit off?

It's well within the realm for me to imagine that the original deck plug--and therefore the mold--was off by one inch in this area. It's not a flaw that one can see visually....at least not until something like this happens. These weren't precision parts, after all. I suspect that "close enough" was close enough.

I don't know with 100% certainty whether it's the transom or the cockpit that's off, though as I said above I suspect the cockpit is the culprit.

Do other Tritons exhibit this?

I didn't experience this problem on Glissando. Kaholee's stern pulpit is virtually identical to that on Glissando. I also did not find a problem with the shape of the transom/hull during new deck construction on Triton #100, the Triton daysailer, which further leads me to believe that it's the deck mold, not the hull mold.

Kaholee and Glissando (as well as #100) share the same hull mold, but different deck molds.

Here's a bad picture of the pulpit on #381. All the legs line up properly with whatever they should be, so I do not believe that the misalignment problem exists with the cockpit here. I doubt it would in any of the later boats either.

What does it look like if you get the two forward legs to even-up?

It looks awful. As it is, the pulpit curvature matches the transom/taffrail curvature, which is more important visually to my eye. Aligning the forward legs with the nonskid skews the pulpit badly out of alignment with the taffrail. This is what led me down this road of discovery in the first place.

I normally wouldn't point out this particular inconsistency, as it's not something one would typically notice upon casual observation, but I thought it was interesting enough based on the Triton history of skewed, out-of-square, and misaligned interior components that it was worth posting.

[dasein668]

I don't recall this as a problem on Dasein, but it's possible that I just didn't notice, since I did the layout before the nonskid was painted so that I could cut around it.

Can't really tell from this picture...



Edit: Ah! The real reason I didn't notice is because my stern rail attaches forward of the traveller area along the side deck. D'oh!

[feetup]

I've spent much of my career as a fabricator, and the one inch error is the standard one for such trades. For Machinists it seems to be 0.025" (one turn of a micrometer) and for the tape measure crowd one inch. Since you can't really trust the hook of a tape for accurate measurement you have a helper hold the tape at the one inch mark and if you are not asleep you read the dimension and mentally subtract the inch. I can see the deck plug having that problem.
Just out of curiosity, does the dimension from the cabin bulkhead to the aft end of the cockpit vary by the same one inch?

Feetup.

[Robert The Gray]

It wasn't just Pearson. I think they had the same standards of squarity at Aeromarine in Sausalito. My westy triton transom was all skewed and twisted when I put my boomkin on for my mizzen mast. I had a hellofa time finding the centerpoint for the pad eye at the transom's lower point. the tape measure made it worse, I ended up just eyeballing it from about 8 feet away. Same with the pulpit. I think it is spelled "catiwompuss". Of course, that may be a lake in Wisconsin.

r

[jhenson]

I've been sanding off this really tough topside paint on those days when I can not do epoxy work due to the weather. I am just about to be able to claim that every last bit of paint on every part of the boat is gone, at least where I can get to. I plan on removing and replacing settee fronts and this flimsy cabin sole, but other than that, I am running out of things to remove and destroy!!

When I got the boat home a couple of years ago, I noticed a large 1 ft. diameter "dimple" near the bow on the port side only. The other side did not. I thought maybe I would find a repair or something under the paint on either side that would account for the different hull shape, but there was only the original gelcoat. If one stands forward looking aft, the two sides are clearly different.

Is this a function of an asymmetrical mold that was later corrected? Has anyone else seen this same thing on EC boats around or before my hull number?

Joe

[Tim]

I noticed a large 1 ft. diameter "dimple" near the bow on the port side only. The other side did not.

That may well be a case of pre-release from the mold, which happens regularly, if inconsistently. During construction, sometimes part of the (ahem) part will release prematurely from the mold, which can create anomalous unfair areas like you are describing. Normally, these sorts of inconsistencies are repaired before the boat leaves the factory.

Few parts, if any, come out of the mold in absolutely perfect condition. Typically, a builder employs one or more patchers whose job it is to repair and blend in exterior gelcoat repairs on the molded parts--including, in many cases, areas like you describe, as well as patching the centerline seam in parts made in 2-section molds, dings and other damage caused during removal from the mold, flaws in the mold itself, and ancillary damage caused during other portions of the boat's overall construction.

[bcooke]

I had to check.

The distance from the transom to the cockpit appears to be square on #680. It might be the only thing that is square on the boat.

I also set a personal record today. I found a spot on the counter (around the engine exhaust) that was a hair over an inch thick.

-Britton

[Rachel]

I found a spot on the counter (around the engine exhaust) that was a hair over an inch thick.

So much for the "later Tritons are thinner" theory.

[Figment]

"Count the laminations" is my favorite game.

Example: at the penetrations for my cockpit drains, the hull is every bit of 3/4" thick, but there are only 4 layers of cloth in that thickness.

[Tim]

I found a spot on the counter (around the engine exhaust) that was a hair over an inch thick.

The areas right around the fiberglass tubes that penetrate the hull might be a bit misleading, since there is a thick mass of cloth that was used to secure the tubes in place. My thickest area was at the galley tube, but it's not really representative of the actual overall laminate thickness.

Example: at the penetrations for my cockpit drains, the hull is every bit of 3/4" thick, but there are only 4 layers of cloth in that thickness.

Are you saying the laminate might be just a touch resin-rich? ;<)

[Figment]

I surrender.
Who made the stern pulpit, and how much for one without the lower rail?

[bcooke]

Yeah, pretty tough to go home and look at mine after seeing what it could look like. I think new pulpits are on the list for phase 3 of the reconstruction.

[Tim]

I surrender.
Who made the stern pulpit, and how much for one without the lower rail?

Tops in Quality: www.topsinquality.com (I don't think their website has been updated or modified since I ordered my stuff back in 2000...)

They do extremely nice work.

I think new pulpits are on the list for phase 3 of the reconstruction.

Well, it really makes the most sense to make any deck hardware changes before you go about painting the decks. Otherwise, you'll end up with holes to patch in your fancy new paintjob.

TIQ offers a 20% "whole boat" discount if one buys two pulpits and a set of stanchions. Spend more to pay less.

[bcooke]

...<sigh>...

[MikeD]

They do extremely nice work.

I'll second that. They were the best deal around by far when I was researching too. But they can be pretty frustrating to deal with.

[Jason K]

I found them very easy to deal with. All I ordered was six stanchion bases, but they were priced right, arrived on time, and looked great.

[Tim]

...<sigh>...

And so it goes...

[fusto]

They were the best deal around...

...but they were priced right...

What kind of prices are we talking about?
How much for stanchion bases?
Pulpits?

Just curious...

[MikeD]

I bought my stern rail in August 2006. I got the WSS-1 style with a custom mod (+$25) for a total of $564. Shipping was like $116 on top of that - if I remember correctly. (Ouch!)

But it looks great!

[Tim]

Here is Mike's Ariel pulpit (single 1" rail). Expect to pay about 75% more for similarly-sized custom double-rail pulpits (before any discounts).





The shipping charge is tough to swallow, but what can you do. If you're lucky enough to have an experienced rail builder nearby, then staying local might make sense, but while any welding hack can tack pieces of tubing together, it's the details like smooth welds, rail curvature, and overall aesthetics that make it worth paying the shipping costs from a fabrication company that makes only rails.

These 26" tall, 1" flat-top stanchions (for double lifelines) with cast bases are $105.50/ea before any discounts. There are other stanchion top configurations available too, as well as different ways to handle the intermediate lifeline (or for single lifelines, too).

[Jason K]

I bought the stanchion bases from Tops In Quality for, I believe, just less than $40 each. They are identical to the ones Tim installed on Kaholee. I ordered the stanchions from Garhauer at about $30 each.