Circuit breakers or fuses

[Shoalcove]

I'm planning on modernizing my electrical panel on my CheoyLee this year and am gathering opinions before I call Jack Rabbit Marine and get their view (and hand over my hard earned coin!).
I would like to replace my old 1-2-all switch with one of the new panels-Blue seas 8080- that allows more flexibility. Then I want a new breaker panel to replace an antique, Finally I am considering a Battery monitor like the Link10 or the XBM. I have limited space, and dollars, needless to say.
Should I be looking for a panel with breakers for all the circuits or would a subpanel of one of the panels for automotive style fuses be a good way to save space and $$ for circuits such as cabin lights? Or am I being too "frugal"?
Has anyone had experience with the XBM monitors? I'd appeciate your opinions.
Finally, I 'll have to build out the panel box a bit behind the companionway ladder. I'm thinking of mounting the new panel components in 3/8" plywood. Any better ideas out there?
I hate doing a job only to discover that there was a better, more efficient and less expensive way to do it so, please, tell me now.
Thanks,
David

[bcooke]

I hate doing a job only to discover that there was a better, more efficient and less expensive way to do it ...

Good luck with that. I have never finished a project without finding a better way to do it and too late to change it. :-)

Personally, I think fuses are fine. It used to be that fuses were more accurate than breakers but I don't know if that is true anymore.

Mounting in plywood is okay but in my experience, tightening down toggle switches tends to cause the nut on the switch to crush into the plywood. Metal makes an easier surface to mount to. Still do-able just not as flawless and easy IMHO.

As for the fancy stuff I don't know, the sky and your wallet is the limit. I bet Jack Rabbit can help you burn through your money pile if you ask them nicely. Money well spent of course.

-Britton

[Hirilondë]

So much of your choice is preference. Money, convenience and lay out room all factor in. Both breakers and fuses will protect your wiring and hence your boat (provided you chose the appropriate wire size for the task and length and the right size breaker or fuse for the wire). Electronics items will include or at least specify in-line-fuses to protect them specifically. Most people put multiple electronics on one circuit, thus the breaker or fuse only protects the wires from them and each component has its own protection.

For things like running lights, steaming light, anchor light, etc. you would need a switch also if you chose breakers. Fuses would be "on" all the time when you switched your battery(s) on. They would have to be removed while you worked on a circuit or added stuff. I use all breakers. My only fuses are the ones right next to the batteries to protect the line to my panel and the ones for my electronics items as specified by the manufacturer.

For small systems (like my Renegade which doesn't even have an engine) I like the 1,2,both switch. It evolves into a whole new game when you add larger battery banks, engines, inverters, generators, powered windlasses and winches, etc..

[Tim]

There's nothing wrong with fuse panels, but most people find circuit breaker switches to be more convenient. I can see how a fuse might be more accurate, but I don't think this is necessarily a compelling reason to choose fuses over breakers. All the more delicate devices on your boat that require critical fused circuits, such as your electronics, have their own low-amperage inline fuses to protect the equipment itself anyway. So even if a 15-amp breaker had a 1-amp inaccuracy, it would never really amount to any sort of issue. The main breakers protect the wiring from damage; the individual fuses protect the separate devices from overcurrent damage.

To that end, I recommend you install a remote fuse block to hold the fuses for various things on board in one spot, rather than a sea of inline fuses. This may not apply to electronics, which typically require the fuse only a certain distance away from the device. I like fuse blocks when possible because, again, it reduces clutter. Of course, the more ancillary wiring components you add, the more space you need behind your panel. This may be a consideration.

I think you'll probably save money if you stick with fused panels rather than circuit breaker panels, but you'll have to compare them side by side to see. Most fused panels are very simple and meant for smaller boats, but that doesn't mean you won't find what you want.

If I read your question correctly, you're not talking about installing individual switches and the like in plywood, but simply building a plywood box and face panel into which you plan to install a pre-manufactured panel, whether it's a fused panel or one containing circuit breakers. So plywood will work fine for this purpose.

I think subpanels, buss bars, and fuse blocks separate from the main breaker panel make sense, and help you organize your wiring better--as well as likely reduce the sheer number of expensive breaker switches you need. There are dozens of potential ways to wire things up, and your specific situation will dictate what you need at a minimum, plus what other things you want to do to dress up the system and make it cleaner and more useful.

It's nice to have only a single lead running to each panel breaker. You can attach up to four to any single terminal, but this clutters up the wiring significantely. Using terminal blocks to terminate multiple wires for a single circuit (such as cabin lights or running lights), and then running a single feed from there to the panel, makes for a nice, clean installation. Similarly, useing buss bars to terminate your ground wires, and even positive distribution wires, can make for a tidier installation.

Don't be scared of Jack Rabbit. Their prices on the items they sell are actually very competitive, and if you buy from them you can get plenty of technical support if you need it. Or you can even get advice before you buy. While Jack Rabbit tends to be a little more focused on the higher-end systems, you can easily configure a simpler system to suit your own needs.

Battery monitors are convenient to have and allow you to know at a glance how much of your battery capacity you have remaining. Something like the Link 10 will work well if you have only a single battery bank to monitor; if you want to monitor two banks (engine and house), you'll need the Link 20.

Finally, you should determine if the setup you have now is adequate in terms of numbers of switches or fuses, and whether you should increase the size and capacity of your new panel, or simply replace roughly in kind.

I love wiring, and I tend to go a little overboard with extra features and so forth. But it pays dividends to have a neat and organized system. Good luck, and have fun!

[Ric in Richmond]

see the instrument thread for www.frontpanelexpress.com that would build a nice custom panel in the space you have now.

[Ceasar Choppy]

I just went through all this two years ago when I re-wired my P-39.

I went with breakers AND fuses. The breakers on the panel protect the wire, and the fuse boxes protect the equipment. I ran large gauge wire from the panel to the fuse boxes strategically located throughout the boat. Then from the fuse boxes to the lights, fans, etc... If I need to add something later, I can just hook it up to the fuse boxes instead of running all the way back to the panel. I used four BS 5025s like these (with the auto fuses)

Re the link10 v. XBM. I like the look and feel of the XBM, although it pretty much does the same thing as the link 10-- but better read-out. Also, if you want to get fancy, you can hook your computer up to the XBM and do some funky stuff with the data.

Re the engine/house switch. I used something BS apparently doesn't make anymore: It has the engine switch, a breaker for the house, and an emergency cross-connect with a little plastic key. I like it.

If I were to do it today, I would look into the 8686 It does the same thing, except allows you to wire in the bilge pumps directly to the panel-- no need for extra bilge pump switches! My only complaint with this one is that the way thay have it configured, your engine circuit is always on. A little re-wiring can take care of that though.

Good luck!

[Shoalcove]

Wow, Thanks for all the input!
Tim, you are correct, I plan to mount preassembled panels in the plywood, not build a panel.
There are many variables to consider, part of the issue is fitting a DC panel with adequate circuits in the space; I do want to have room for future expansion. I was thinking of using the fuse panel for things like cabin lights, propane solonoids, and some electronics that have built in switches. That would free up room on the breaker panel for things like running lights, auto pilots etc.
Mostly, I want to have a clean, organized setup that is reliable. Simple, right? ; )
The BS8686 is the kind of thing I'm looking at. I use the boat for summer coastal cruising/bay sailing but want to be able to expand capabilities as time goes on. The XBM would be nice to allow me to identify power hogs and try to become more efficient. I'd rather pay to become more efficient rather than build a bigger power generating plant.
Thanks again for the help.
David

[keelbolts]

When I bought Favona, her wiring looked like technicolor spaghetti. As I got into it I was thankful she hadn't burned to the waterline. Having been an aircraft electrician for about 12 years I had an idea of how decent wiring should look. I built my own electrical panel. The back and sides are varnished mahogany with the front panel being plexiglass. I left mine clear but if you don't wish to see the wires paint the back side of the panel. If you can keep a 40 year old boat afloat, you can build your own custom electrical panel easily and cheaply.

[Shoalcove]

Thanks Keelboat, for the vote of confidence. I really enjoy this forum because there is so much hands-on experience as opposed to the"I read this in cruising world" crowd. I'll give it a go.
David

[Hirilondë]

I left mine clear but if you don't wish to see the wires paint the back side of the panel.

Plexiglass aka acrylic or polycarbonate often called by the most well known brand Lexan with rounded over edges and painted black on the back side looks SWEET! I sometimes use that material/process for the tops of dorade boxes.