Obsessing over color concepts

[Figment]

As was briefly discussed in other threads, the Gunsmoke Blue topsides color creates some interesting questions about other colors on the boat. After some brief testing, I concluded that (for this first year at least) the bootstripe will be white. Yeah, it'll get grungy and I'll forever be scrubbing away at it, but that's life.

I'm spending waaaaay too much time thinking about what color to select for the antifouling paint. I even went so far as to do some cartooning.

Here's red,


green,


Neither of these relationships really grab me. I briefly considered using Pettit's "Vivid" line of paints to concoct something more appealing, but then I remembered the old copper-bronze paint:


I think that could work. But there must be something I don't know. I don't see this paint used that often. There must be a reason. Does it not work worth a damn?
Both Defender and Hamilton list it in their online catalogs at a not-terribly-outrageous price. (all relative, I'm used to using the cheapest stuff on the shelf)

What am I missing?

[Tim]

I think the copper bronze is an interesting choice. It's a very traditional look, one that looks particularly nice on an old Chris-Craft or Lyman. I have no idea how it works, but the look can't be beat in many cases. I intend to use it when (yes, when) I get my Lyman rebuilt. I;m not sure why you don't see it more, but sometimes looks trump the ultimate in function.

I think white is definitely the right choice for the boot, and really like the thought of the copper bronze. If it doesn't work well as an antifoulant, then you'll choose something else next year.

I'm not too stoked up about the red, personally. I don't think it looks that great with gunsmoke blue. The green might work, and would be vastly preferable to red, in my opinion. But I like the copper bronze idea the best. I hate to think of you needing to go black...yuck.

Color choices are very important, and it's not at all wrong to put this sort of thought into it. Far too many people seem to choose willy-nilly.

That's quite a roach you've drawn on your mainsail there!

[bcooke]

I hate to think of you needing to go black...yuck.

Ummm... My bottom was black last year and you cruised a week with me without saying anything. What I did hear all week were comments about colors and botched bootstripes on other boats that were clearly beyond visual range. I can only wonder what words were whispered as I sailed not 30 feet from Glissando with Nathan's camera whizzing away clearly spoiling the photo op.

I sometimes consider giving my boat to Tim to paint in whatever color he deems appropriate. He sees details no mortal will ever notice and while my initial thoughts about colors are sometimes at odds with his, upon reflection I eventually come around to his way of thinking- either that or I fall under his evil mind control. Plus, I am afraid that the shame of my boat in the wrong colors parked in the same harbor as his, might just drive him to socially isolating behaviors.

In regards to the thread topic though. I would have to agree with Tim. I like the copper-bronze. It looks good plus it is a color that you won't see on every other boat out there. The white bootstripe would be my choice as well.

-Britton

[Tim]

I hate to think of you needing to go black...yuck.

Ummm... My bottom was black last year and you cruised a week with me without saying anything. What I did hear all week were comments about colors and botched bootstripes on other boats that were clearly beyond visual range. I can only wonder what words were whispered as I sailed not 30 feet from Glissando with Nathan's camera whizzing away clearly spoiling the photo op.

I sometimes consider giving my boat to Tim to paint in whatever color he deems appropriate. He sees details no mortal will ever notice and while my initial thoughts about colors are sometimes at odds with his, upon reflection I eventually come around to his way of thinking- either that or I fall under his evil mind control. Plus, I am afraid that the shame of my boat in the wrong colors parked in the same harbor as his, might just drive him to socially isolating behaviors.

In regards to the thread topic though. I would have to agree with Tim. I like the copper-bronze. It looks good plus it is a color that you won't see on every other boat out there. The white bootstripe would be my choice as well.

-Britton

So in a nutshell, you're saying that I'm a freak? :<)

[Figment]

Black. I just can't do it. Even if the color appealed to me aesthetically, I just can't get past the stigma of obnoxiousness. Reserved for gin-palace powerboats and Hunters. oh, and Britton, of course!!

A grey might have worked, but it seemed like such a punt.

Red. It holds no special appeal for me. It was an easy option, so I tested the idea.

Blue. It would have to be the PERFECT blue. Fat chance of stumbling into that.

Green. Tone-sensitive, but not quite so much as the blue. Green was in the lead until I considered the copper.

Those pettit "Vivid" paints are pretty cool, though. I don't know anything about how well they perform as antifouling, but they have the chromas really well worked out.

I also think that I'll need to paint my toerail to match the bootstripe. but that can wait until after launch day. a cove stripe may happen, but not this year.

[bcooke]

So in a nutshell, you're saying that I'm a freak? :<)

Not at all! More particular perhaps :-)

Black. ... Reserved for gin-palace powerboats and Hunters. oh, and Britton, of course!!

I have never been so insulted.

I don't get it. I obviously have no clue what is good and bad when it comes to colors. They all just seem ... colorful... to me. Is there a school or course I should take to educate myself on what is good and proper in the world of color?

-Britton

[dasein668]

So in a nutshell, you're saying that I'm a freak? :<)

Not all all! More particular perhaps :-)

Umm, isn't that the pot calling the kettle?wait for it!?black?

[bcooke]

Hehe,... okay,... good one.

[Tim]

Those pettit "Vivid" paints are pretty cool, though. I don't know anything about how well they perform as antifouling, but they have the chromas really well worked out.

I used Petit Vivid green last season on Glissando. I didn't notice any difference in performance between the Vivid and the paint I had used before (Micron CSC). Both allow the usual thin slime to appear by the end of the season (that's all a painted bottom will grow up here).

I think the Vivid color mixing opportunity might allow you to come up with an interesting color too, if the copper bronze doesn't work out. One benefit of Vivid is that it's an ablative paint, whereas Copper Bronze is not, and will therefore build up over time.

[Tim]

Is there a school or course I should take to educate myself on what is good and proper in the world of color?

Yes. Just keep reading here. :<P

Seriously, though, boat aesthetics can be a challenge. The overall look of any boat is a combination of many aesthetic qualities, all of which work in harmony to provide the final appearance. This includes colors, striping details, trim, canvas, and other subtleties that are hard to put your finger on. Of course the design of the boat has to factor in here, but less than one might think.

Individual tastes vary, of course. But I maintain that when a boat's overall look is "just right", anyone can look at it and understand on some level that it looks right, even if they don't know why, or don't even know that they know, or even if they don't particularly like the boat. But it's these objective--if undefinable--qualities that make one boat stand out more than another, perhaps. One cannot always point to the exact reasons why one boat may be more or less appealing than another, but I think that when the details of a certain boat are right, they appeal to a wide audience, regardless of individual tastes in color or style.

Britton, I still think there's something to that certain color that you, Nathan, and I discussed over the summer. I won't let on what the color is, so that if you do choose it you'll be guaranteed uniqueness. Hmm...what color bottom would you need with that, I wonder. That's a tough one, but one that can be overcome.

[bcooke]

Britton, I still think there's something to that certain color that you, Nathan, and I discussed over the summer. ... . Hmm...what color bottom would you need with that, I wonder. That's a tough one, but one that can be overcome.

Curiously, I met Nathan in Portland while attending the Maine Boatbuilders Show yesterday and over lunch he mentioned his preference for that color too. It seems you two have been talking. Far be it for me to interfere with the Color Masters at work. Let me know when you figure it out so I can order the paint :-)

I am torn between that somewhat daring color and a much more common forest green (like my dinghy). I like the green. Unfortunately, so does every other boat in the yard where my boat is parked.

Now, where are you people getting the color samples? I went to the Petit and Interlux websites and didn't see any copper bronze colors; just the ordinary red/green/brown/blue and black

-Britton

[dasein668]

Britton, I still think there's something to that certain color that you, Nathan, and I discussed over the summer. I won't let on what the color is, so that if you do choose it you'll be guaranteed uniqueness. Hmm...what color bottom would you need with that, I wonder. That's a tough one, but one that can be overcome.

I told him that again at lunch yesterday!

[Tim]

Now, where are you people getting the color samples? I went to the Petit and Interlux websites and didn't see any copper bronze colors; just the ordinary red/green/brown/blue and black

From the massive files of useless information in our heads.

I can't find a good color sample either, but it's a bright coppery-bronze sort of like a new penny. I imagine it turns darker in the water.

[Rachel]

People,

Oh come on! Now I simply *must* know what the mystery color is, so I think you will have to use it, Britton :-)

That was a good description of boat aesthetics, Tim, I agree completely.

--- R.

PS Don't "get a life" Britton, the board would be empty and soul-less without you ;-)

[bcooke]

Oh come on! Now I simply *must* know what the mystery color is, so I think you will have to use it, Britton

I wouldn't want to take Mike's thunder away from his thread. Let's just say everyone will be awed. I really haven't thought about it much since last summer but this morning while taking a shower I suddenly got an image in my head of the contrast between green coastal water and the inevitable hull color on the boat. It will be nice. Plus, I really can't choose any other color because I will never hear the end of it from the boat aesthetic police.

-Britton

[Rachel]

I wouldn't want to take Mike's thunder away from his thread.

Guess you can't start talking about bottom paint or boot stripes then; or at least not in *this* thread. We will breathlessly await the re-launch -- or your your very *own* "obsessing" thread -- at a later date. :-)

[rshowarth]

I saw a posting of a Victoria 18 in Hatteras Off White with something called Rustic Red on the bottom and boot. I have not been able to find "Rustic Red". Is "Rustic Red" an older, retired, Interlux color?

Has anyone seen Oyster White topsides with a bootstripe in Bounty
(Interlux)?

I am considering this combination for the Rhodes 19 with a green ablative antifouling paint for the bottom.

[Figment]

hmmmm, the green doesn't look bad at all.

[Duncan]

I'm spending waaaaay too much time thinking about what color to select for the antifouling paint.

And nobody called you "Pigment" yet? (sorry). For what it's worth, I see a lot of VC-17 up here (fresh water), and the coppery colour seems to go with everything.

By the way, I saw a Triton in Rhode Island last weekend, whose topsides were an Awlgrip match of Interlux "Seattle Grey" - looked very subtle and very nice, indeed.

[MikeD]

hmmmm, the green doesn't look bad at all.

Did you take that picture when you were up in Maine for your sail? Looks a whole lot like Ft. Gorges, Little Diamond Is. and Peaks Is. in the background.

If you want to get really fancy, an Ariel owner put copper powder in epoxy and "painted" onto the bottom of the boat. Looks pretty sweet.

[Jason K]

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241 ... G_1155.jpg

That's a great looking boat. Almost certainly a Crocker design, right? Do you know what kind it is?

[bcooke]

hmmmm, the green doesn't look bad at all.

That green looks really nice actually...

[hebert01]

Looks like a Stonehorse to me...

[Jason K]

The Stonehorse I'm familiar with is a 23' cutter rigged sloop that was designed by Sam Crocker and built in the 30's. It was manufactured by Edie & Duff as a fiberglass boat in the '70's and '80's. Was the orginal Stonehore 23 one of a model series?

The boat above is bigger than a Stonehorse 23 with a different deck and cabin configuration, but the resemblance is really interesting.

Here's a Stonehorse 23 (from atomvoyages.com):

[hebert01]

Sorry that I didn't look more closely the first time. You're right, it's not exactly the same as the Stone Horse I know (I live in the same town as the Edey & Duff yard, so I'm fortunate to see quite a few sailing near me). Still, I agree that it's got to be a Crocker design of some sort.

[Figment]

The gang at woodenboat seem to agree that it's a Crocker (duh), but that's about it.

http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulletin/u ... hp?t=68244

[Rachel]

Although I agree that the boat in the photo is a much larger design than the Stone Horse, I just thought I'd mention that the Stone Horse was made in wood - at least once. I have friends who own a wooden Stone Horse that was built, if I remember correctly, in the early to mid-1960s. Somewhere in New England, I believe.

R.

[bcooke]

I did some work on a Crocker boat that looks identical to that boat in the photo - same size, same dropped bow deck, etc. I can't remember the design name offhand. I think both sloop and ketch rigged versions were designed/built though.

If I can remember I will ask around.

-Britton

[LazyGuy]

I would like to take exception to the black bottom issue. While I agree with the power boats and Benneteau comment, I think it needs to be expanded to Black is the new blue. What was, and to an extent still is, the white boat with the blue bottom and blue sail cover is now becoming the white boat with black bottom, black sail cover, black dock lines, black fuzzy fender covers and (this is what I really cannot understand) black canvas. Oh! and black lettering on the transom. The people with the B&W sailboats are buying living rooms and the B&W power boaters are, in my opinion, cigarette boaters in training.

I honestly feel that black, used judiciously, can be an integral part of the balance that makes one green or red or sky blue/pink boat look better than another.

This is the original Paper Moon, a Sea Sprite 23.

[MikeD]

I would like to take exception to the black bottom issue.

Me too! :)

[Figment]

Oh, don't get me started on "Pacific Blue"!!!!

[Rachel]

Nor me...