Hello.
I am new to this Forum.
I don't have a Triton but I do have an incomplete "Frances 26 " (Chuck Paine design).
She is built using "Sheath-Strip" epoxy consruction, i.e edge glued and screwed Cedar Strips, Glassed inside and out. No frames or stringers required. The glass cladding supplies the transverse strength, and the bonded interior also supplies transverse strenth. Basically then, she is a glass boat with a cedar core.
My query is this: I am a complete neophyte wihen it comes to boatbuilding - but I want to remodel completely my interior. I basically want to strip out my current interior and put in one in that I desire.
I don't have any boatbuilding skills. I would be starting from scratch. I would need to learn about epoxy, glass sheathing and bonding, tabbing, filleting. I am aware of these terms but don't really know what they mean.
I could get all this work done by a professional, but the labour charges would be incredibly exorbitant for a financially challenged fella like me.
How hard is this stuff to learn? Is there a book called "interior boat construction for the complete idiot"? I desperately want to do this work myself, but if I stuff it up then I am back to square one.
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Can it be done?
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Figment
- Damned Because It's All Connected
- Posts: 2846
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:32 am
- Boat Name: Triton
- Boat Type: Grand Banks 42
- Location: L.I. Sound
Strip planked boats (all monococque boats, really) almost always rely on interior furnishings as stiffening members. A major reconfiguration of the interior could have huge structural ramifications.
So don't reinvent the wheel. If you do a reconfiguration, try to stick with something that is commonly used in other boats of the size.
When you tear out the existing interior, keep an eye out for which pieces seem overly stout or seem extensively tabbed to the hull. Try to put back something equally stout and well adhered with your new configuration.
I think the owner of any cedar-cored strip planked boat really ought to learn about epoxy and glass work anyway, so see if you can find a copy of This Old Boat by Don Casey. It's not the whole manual, but at least you'll have a better sense of things.
The Nature of Boats by Dave Gerr is another good one. It doesn't tell you anything about how to do epoxy work, but you'll have a better understanding of why that bulkhead was there in the first place, and why you should proceed with caution when moving it.
A happy sailor knows that each piece of a boat is part of a system. If those pieces don't work with each other, they're working AGAINST each other and the system breaks down.
So don't reinvent the wheel. If you do a reconfiguration, try to stick with something that is commonly used in other boats of the size.
When you tear out the existing interior, keep an eye out for which pieces seem overly stout or seem extensively tabbed to the hull. Try to put back something equally stout and well adhered with your new configuration.
I think the owner of any cedar-cored strip planked boat really ought to learn about epoxy and glass work anyway, so see if you can find a copy of This Old Boat by Don Casey. It's not the whole manual, but at least you'll have a better sense of things.
The Nature of Boats by Dave Gerr is another good one. It doesn't tell you anything about how to do epoxy work, but you'll have a better understanding of why that bulkhead was there in the first place, and why you should proceed with caution when moving it.
A happy sailor knows that each piece of a boat is part of a system. If those pieces don't work with each other, they're working AGAINST each other and the system breaks down.
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Zane Krajancic
G'day Figment, thanks heaps for your reply.
Without boring you with too much detail, I've done alot of research into "Sheath-Stip" construction. It was a method first used by Lindsay Lord. It is quite different from traditional strip planking, and heaps different from cold moulded - although they all having a common thread wherein fibreglassing is used.
The interior bonding does provide extra "stiffening" but is not essential for this type of constrution, i.e the shell itself is strong enough with the inside/outside glassing providing massive strenght. It is a common construction method here in New Zealand apparently. I know that is hard to beleive. The only structural strenth I need to add is floors. However, you may as well take advantage of the strenth obtained by "bonding" in the interior.
My problem is that I don't know where to start. I don't even no what type of tools, saws, etc I require for firstly the strippping of the interior and then the rebuild. I must sound like an idiot - but I need to start somewhere, and hence, thats why I posted on this forum.
Cheers.
Without boring you with too much detail, I've done alot of research into "Sheath-Stip" construction. It was a method first used by Lindsay Lord. It is quite different from traditional strip planking, and heaps different from cold moulded - although they all having a common thread wherein fibreglassing is used.
The interior bonding does provide extra "stiffening" but is not essential for this type of constrution, i.e the shell itself is strong enough with the inside/outside glassing providing massive strenght. It is a common construction method here in New Zealand apparently. I know that is hard to beleive. The only structural strenth I need to add is floors. However, you may as well take advantage of the strenth obtained by "bonding" in the interior.
My problem is that I don't know where to start. I don't even no what type of tools, saws, etc I require for firstly the strippping of the interior and then the rebuild. I must sound like an idiot - but I need to start somewhere, and hence, thats why I posted on this forum.
Cheers.
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Zane Krajancic
Here is an explanation about the of "sheath-strip glassed" construction that was mailed to me by Naval Architect Tom McNaughton:
"Basically what happens is that since wood has little strength across the grain you need to treat the wood, when viewed transversely, as a "core". By adding glass and epoxy to the hull shell with the long fibers running transversely you have a situation where no matter which direction you try to flex the panel the glass on the side loaded takes compression load and the side away from the load takes tension load. Thus it is like the entire hull becomes one big transverse frame.
Of course adding full length hull stringers LONGITUDINALLY would not increase the transverse strength anyway.
One of the most common reasons for poor performance is "beefing up" a design that is already strong enough. The reason people do this with fiberglass stock boats is because most fiberglass stock boats are horribly under structured. Very few wood and epoxy boats are ever built too light since people stopped building stock boats in wood, and they are often over structured. Fiberglass stock boats are understructured because the builders can get away with it. However most people have at least some feel for the strength of wood and so would not accept a thin wood and epoxy boat. Further most wood and epoxy boats are custom built these days and I have never had a custom boat builder suggest that they wanted a less robust structure than designed".
"Basically what happens is that since wood has little strength across the grain you need to treat the wood, when viewed transversely, as a "core". By adding glass and epoxy to the hull shell with the long fibers running transversely you have a situation where no matter which direction you try to flex the panel the glass on the side loaded takes compression load and the side away from the load takes tension load. Thus it is like the entire hull becomes one big transverse frame.
Of course adding full length hull stringers LONGITUDINALLY would not increase the transverse strength anyway.
One of the most common reasons for poor performance is "beefing up" a design that is already strong enough. The reason people do this with fiberglass stock boats is because most fiberglass stock boats are horribly under structured. Very few wood and epoxy boats are ever built too light since people stopped building stock boats in wood, and they are often over structured. Fiberglass stock boats are understructured because the builders can get away with it. However most people have at least some feel for the strength of wood and so would not accept a thin wood and epoxy boat. Further most wood and epoxy boats are custom built these days and I have never had a custom boat builder suggest that they wanted a less robust structure than designed".
Epoxy info
Hi Zane,
As far as literature goes, I've found the free manual put out by System Three (epoxy company) to be extremely helpful in explaining how to go about it. I see that you can download it at their website (www.systemthree.com), although you have to register first.
I believe West Sytem (another epoxy company) books might be even more extensive. You can get a look at the West System books on the Jamestown Distributors site at http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/es ... 7485094984
They're $3 or $5 U.S. each.
I'd love to see photos of your Frances.
--- Rachel
As far as literature goes, I've found the free manual put out by System Three (epoxy company) to be extremely helpful in explaining how to go about it. I see that you can download it at their website (www.systemthree.com), although you have to register first.
I believe West Sytem (another epoxy company) books might be even more extensive. You can get a look at the West System books on the Jamestown Distributors site at http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/es ... 7485094984
They're $3 or $5 U.S. each.
I'd love to see photos of your Frances.
--- Rachel
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Zane Krajancic
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Tim
- Shipwright Extraordinaire
- Posts: 5708
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:39 pm
- Boat Name: Glissando
- Boat Type: Pearson Triton
- Location: Whitefield, ME
- Contact:
Zane,
The links you posted for the photos of your boat refer to files located on your computer; they are not available to other users. If you like, please email me your photos and I will happily post them here.
Email to tlackey@triton381.com.
I highly recommend System Three's The Epoxy Book, available through their website, (www.systemthree.com) and also whatever publications West System puts out. They have a basic users guide that you can get for free, probably through their website (www.westsystem.com), and also publish a very comprehensive hardcover book that you should buy. I believe it is titled The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction.
Even though these sources are written by two specific epoxy resin manufacturers, the information contained within is invaluable, and applies to all epoxy and fiberglass work, regardless of branding. As a starting point (and beyond), these are extremely helpful references.
This Old Boat, as referenced earlier, is also a good overall reference. It's a broad-stroke kind of book, short on the ultimate details, but very helpful in helping you understand the basics that you must.
Another book to consider is From a Bare Hull, by Ferenc Mate. It covers most of the basics of finishing out a bare fiberglass hull, most of which would apply to your boat.
At the risk of an unintended attempt to elevate myself into the same category as those above, please check out the details on my Daysailor website covering the interior structure. In this instance, the internal structure of the boat--transverse bulkheads, mostly--is critical to the strength of the fiberglass hull, whereas in your case your added interior structure may be less structural in nature, though if you install things securely with fiberglass, you will add to the overall stiffness of your hull regardless of the strength of construction.
The process begins with the bulkheads' installation at this link:
http://www.tritondaysailor.com/rebuildi ... heads1.htm
A later owner of the boat (a relatively miserable chap all around) angered the entire local boating community when, a few years into his ownership, he painted over the varnished hull. There are some things you just don't do: chief among them is the reluctance to maintain a classic boat to its required standards.
Conversely, if the interior components or partitions (bulkheads) seem heavily secured with fiberglass tabbing, it may indicate that the interior is more important than you think. It's impossible to say from here. I, and all the others here, would be happy to comment more on this condition if we can see some photos, so feel free to send as many along to me as you want.
Fiberglass is not rocket science, but there is a learning curve that seems steeper for some people than for others. There are some basic techniques that you need to know, all of which apply to each aspect of your fiberglass boat--from installing crucial structural elements to just tabbing a piece of furniture in so that it doesn't move. I don't think fiberglass work is over the head of anyone, but some people seem to never get the hang of it, either. But for someone with some basic mechanical, hands-on skills (which you surely must have or you wouldn't even be considering this sort of job), as well as the drive and inclination to do the project and learn along the way, I predict complete success.
That said, I wouldn't choose fiberglassing a structural bulkhead as my first foray into fiberglass, either. So start small and work your way into it. It probably won't take much to get the hang of it.
Basics of fiberglass work (assuming repair/modification work, not new builds):
1. Don't try to save money by using polyester resin for repair or improvement work. Epoxy resin has stronger secondary bonding that works better with wood and also sticks better to existing fiberglass, even if that existing fiberglass was laid up with polyester. Use epoxy: it's the right choice. Those who argue against it are only trying to be cheap.
2. When saturating fiberglass cloth with resin, it's better to use too much resin than too little. Obviously, the right amount is the right amount, but most of us never acheive that perfect ideal. Resin-rich is better than resin-starved. You should never see any whiteness from the fiberglass cloth; it should always be fully saturated and transparent.
3. Get the air out! This is the key to all fiberglass work, and is what makes the whole process tick. Learn how to visually identify air in your fiberglass as you install it, and learn how to use a grooved air roller to roll it out properly.
4. Don't apply too many layers at once. The heat generated by the resin's chemical reaction, which is exothermic, may badly weaken the structure if too much heat is generated. The more layers of cloth, the thicker it is, and the more heat buildup. This is usually not a problem except in confined areas or when building up extreme thicknesses. 2 or 3 layers of heavy material is usually the limit; with lighter material, you can apply more layers at once.
Those are the basics. There's more to it than that, but it's not a difficult process.
I think I've rambled on long enough for now, but welcome to the forum, and don't be shy about your questions. Your project sounds interesting, and I look forward to hearing more.
The links you posted for the photos of your boat refer to files located on your computer; they are not available to other users. If you like, please email me your photos and I will happily post them here.
Email to tlackey@triton381.com.
I highly recommend System Three's The Epoxy Book, available through their website, (www.systemthree.com) and also whatever publications West System puts out. They have a basic users guide that you can get for free, probably through their website (www.westsystem.com), and also publish a very comprehensive hardcover book that you should buy. I believe it is titled The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction.
Even though these sources are written by two specific epoxy resin manufacturers, the information contained within is invaluable, and applies to all epoxy and fiberglass work, regardless of branding. As a starting point (and beyond), these are extremely helpful references.
This Old Boat, as referenced earlier, is also a good overall reference. It's a broad-stroke kind of book, short on the ultimate details, but very helpful in helping you understand the basics that you must.
Another book to consider is From a Bare Hull, by Ferenc Mate. It covers most of the basics of finishing out a bare fiberglass hull, most of which would apply to your boat.
At the risk of an unintended attempt to elevate myself into the same category as those above, please check out the details on my Daysailor website covering the interior structure. In this instance, the internal structure of the boat--transverse bulkheads, mostly--is critical to the strength of the fiberglass hull, whereas in your case your added interior structure may be less structural in nature, though if you install things securely with fiberglass, you will add to the overall stiffness of your hull regardless of the strength of construction.
The process begins with the bulkheads' installation at this link:
http://www.tritondaysailor.com/rebuildi ... heads1.htm
Interestingly, Lindsay Lord is a sort of local hero here in Maine. He was a long-standing member of the Portland Yacht Club, from where I sail, and our race committee boat is named after him in his honor. I was aware that he was of some renown, and am most interested to hear you refer to him all the way from NZ. He died some time ago, but I remember the boat he used to have: a gorgeous, bright-finished mahogany powerboat that had been the queen of the 1928 New York boatshow, called Pot-o-Gold.Zane Krajancic wrote:Without boring you with too much detail, I've done alot of research into "Sheath-Stip" construction. It was a method first used by Lindsay Lord.
A later owner of the boat (a relatively miserable chap all around) angered the entire local boating community when, a few years into his ownership, he painted over the varnished hull. There are some things you just don't do: chief among them is the reluctance to maintain a classic boat to its required standards.
If your hull is truly able to support itself without the benefit of interior partitions or furniture, then you are in a good situation for learning. What would be very telling would be for you to carefully inspect how the existing interior is secured to the boat. If it is mechanical only, and not fiberglassed in place, then it would support your contention that the hull does not rely upon the interior components for required structural strength or stiffness.Zane Krajancic wrote:I don't have any boatbuilding skills. I would be starting from scratch. I would need to learn about epoxy, glass sheathing and bonding, tabbing, filleting. I am aware of these terms but don't really know what they mean.....How hard is this stuff to learn? Is there a book called "interior boat construction for the complete idiot"? I desperately want to do this work myself, but if I stuff it up then I am back to square one.
Conversely, if the interior components or partitions (bulkheads) seem heavily secured with fiberglass tabbing, it may indicate that the interior is more important than you think. It's impossible to say from here. I, and all the others here, would be happy to comment more on this condition if we can see some photos, so feel free to send as many along to me as you want.
Fiberglass is not rocket science, but there is a learning curve that seems steeper for some people than for others. There are some basic techniques that you need to know, all of which apply to each aspect of your fiberglass boat--from installing crucial structural elements to just tabbing a piece of furniture in so that it doesn't move. I don't think fiberglass work is over the head of anyone, but some people seem to never get the hang of it, either. But for someone with some basic mechanical, hands-on skills (which you surely must have or you wouldn't even be considering this sort of job), as well as the drive and inclination to do the project and learn along the way, I predict complete success.
That said, I wouldn't choose fiberglassing a structural bulkhead as my first foray into fiberglass, either. So start small and work your way into it. It probably won't take much to get the hang of it.
Basics of fiberglass work (assuming repair/modification work, not new builds):
1. Don't try to save money by using polyester resin for repair or improvement work. Epoxy resin has stronger secondary bonding that works better with wood and also sticks better to existing fiberglass, even if that existing fiberglass was laid up with polyester. Use epoxy: it's the right choice. Those who argue against it are only trying to be cheap.
2. When saturating fiberglass cloth with resin, it's better to use too much resin than too little. Obviously, the right amount is the right amount, but most of us never acheive that perfect ideal. Resin-rich is better than resin-starved. You should never see any whiteness from the fiberglass cloth; it should always be fully saturated and transparent.
3. Get the air out! This is the key to all fiberglass work, and is what makes the whole process tick. Learn how to visually identify air in your fiberglass as you install it, and learn how to use a grooved air roller to roll it out properly.
4. Don't apply too many layers at once. The heat generated by the resin's chemical reaction, which is exothermic, may badly weaken the structure if too much heat is generated. The more layers of cloth, the thicker it is, and the more heat buildup. This is usually not a problem except in confined areas or when building up extreme thicknesses. 2 or 3 layers of heavy material is usually the limit; with lighter material, you can apply more layers at once.
Those are the basics. There's more to it than that, but it's not a difficult process.
I think I've rambled on long enough for now, but welcome to the forum, and don't be shy about your questions. Your project sounds interesting, and I look forward to hearing more.
---------------------------------------------------
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
Forum Founder--No Longer Participating
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Zane Krajancic
Tim wrote [quote] "Interestingly, Lindsay Lord is a sort of local hero here in Maine. He was a long-standing member of the Portland Yacht Club, from where I sail, and our race committee boat is named after him in his honor. I was aware that he was of some renown, and am most interested to hear you refer to him all the way from NZ. He died some time ago, but I remember the boat he used to have: a gorgeous, bright-finished mahogany powerboat that had been the queen of the 1928 New York boatshow, called Pot-o-Gold."
I had the opportunity to meet Lindsay Lord as I did some electrical work in his house in Falmouth, Maine. He had a plaque in his house from the power company that he proudly displayed as the first all electric house in Maine. This was at a time when sailing wasn't apart of my life. But I was impressed with his cottage style house which he designed. It was filled with all kinds of half hull models of boats and ships that he designed. He seemed a bit eccentric in some ways, but I found him quite interesting to talk to.
I had the opportunity to meet Lindsay Lord as I did some electrical work in his house in Falmouth, Maine. He had a plaque in his house from the power company that he proudly displayed as the first all electric house in Maine. This was at a time when sailing wasn't apart of my life. But I was impressed with his cottage style house which he designed. It was filled with all kinds of half hull models of boats and ships that he designed. He seemed a bit eccentric in some ways, but I found him quite interesting to talk to.
Nice!
Zane,
What a great looking boat! I love those mile-wide side-decks. One thing that always bugged me about the Westsail 32 that I spent a bit of time on was the fact that the cabin top was *really* wide. So you had 6' headroom over you while you were sitting on the settees, yet it was a struggle to bring a bagged sail forward on the narrow-ish side-decks. I used to fantasize about a Saw-zall :-) I mean, how many people are 6' tall sitting down! Hmmmph.
I have to say that the interior looks nicely finished from what I could see. I'd have a hard time tearing it out; although I agree with you that it's nice to have a boat customized for the way you want it, and annoying to have 6 berths for one or two people, at the expense of other spaces you might want.
I'd love to see more of the interior layout. Is it a V-berth, followed aft by a small galley, then two quarterberth/settees extending under the cockpit? I'm guessing that you'd want to keep either some sort of bulkhead under the mast - or a compression post. How are the chainplates attached?
I'm curious how you're thinking about re-doing it. I've never been a V-berth sleeper, so I always have visions of a small workshop up there, like in the Bristol Channel Cutters. I also think I like the galley aft, although I have to admit I've never lived on a boat with it forward, which might have its advantages.
--- Rachel
What a great looking boat! I love those mile-wide side-decks. One thing that always bugged me about the Westsail 32 that I spent a bit of time on was the fact that the cabin top was *really* wide. So you had 6' headroom over you while you were sitting on the settees, yet it was a struggle to bring a bagged sail forward on the narrow-ish side-decks. I used to fantasize about a Saw-zall :-) I mean, how many people are 6' tall sitting down! Hmmmph.
I have to say that the interior looks nicely finished from what I could see. I'd have a hard time tearing it out; although I agree with you that it's nice to have a boat customized for the way you want it, and annoying to have 6 berths for one or two people, at the expense of other spaces you might want.
I'd love to see more of the interior layout. Is it a V-berth, followed aft by a small galley, then two quarterberth/settees extending under the cockpit? I'm guessing that you'd want to keep either some sort of bulkhead under the mast - or a compression post. How are the chainplates attached?
I'm curious how you're thinking about re-doing it. I've never been a V-berth sleeper, so I always have visions of a small workshop up there, like in the Bristol Channel Cutters. I also think I like the galley aft, although I have to admit I've never lived on a boat with it forward, which might have its advantages.
--- Rachel
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Peter
- Boat Obsession Medal Finalist
- Posts: 580
- Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:23 pm
- Boat Name: Pagan
- Boat Type: Albin Ballad 30
- Location: Pedder Bay (Victoria), BC, Canada
- Contact:
There's a neat web page about Tom Tweed's project: also a Chuck Paine Francis 26. He built a flush deck model and did an incredible job of it.
The web page is at http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/boat.htm
I go there quite often just for inspiration.
The web page is at http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/boat.htm
I go there quite often just for inspiration.
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Zane Krajancic
The Galley is amidships to starboard. Yep the Qaurter berths go well under the cockpit.
The quarter berths are 34" wide, which is about 10" to wide for safety at sea - plus I bump my head on the cabinsides edge when I lean back - In my opinion, the berths should be amidships and outboard of lockers which willalso double as a lean back and save some bruises on the back of my head
I'd like the galley well aft, the v-berth should be moved forward (I can do this if I move bulkheads and deck-step the mast with appropriate strenthing under the deck), the water tanks (two) should be placed both fore and aft on the centreline of the boat (not under the quarter berths as the are now). Theres many other things I want to do with this interior - I will defintely need to strip the whole interior to do this. I know small boats are a compromise, but in my opinion, this boats current interior is fine for weekender, but not for living aboard and voyaging.
I do like the wide side-decks as well, but the cabintop must be the most ugly I have seen, in my opinion. Maybe its the horribly shaped portholes that make it look worse.
If I keep this boat, I will definitely be customising the interior and exterior to my tastes. I don't see the point in having a boat if she is not set up to one's particular tastes.
Maybe I should have thought of all this before I bought her.
The quarter berths are 34" wide, which is about 10" to wide for safety at sea - plus I bump my head on the cabinsides edge when I lean back - In my opinion, the berths should be amidships and outboard of lockers which willalso double as a lean back and save some bruises on the back of my head
I'd like the galley well aft, the v-berth should be moved forward (I can do this if I move bulkheads and deck-step the mast with appropriate strenthing under the deck), the water tanks (two) should be placed both fore and aft on the centreline of the boat (not under the quarter berths as the are now). Theres many other things I want to do with this interior - I will defintely need to strip the whole interior to do this. I know small boats are a compromise, but in my opinion, this boats current interior is fine for weekender, but not for living aboard and voyaging.
I do like the wide side-decks as well, but the cabintop must be the most ugly I have seen, in my opinion. Maybe its the horribly shaped portholes that make it look worse.
If I keep this boat, I will definitely be customising the interior and exterior to my tastes. I don't see the point in having a boat if she is not set up to one's particular tastes.
Maybe I should have thought of all this before I bought her.
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Zane Krajancic
Below are various images of completed Frances 26'ers.
The interior drawing is similar to what I desire, except for the quarter berth - I'd move the galley aft as explained in my last post, and use the rest of the space for storage. The won't be any engine either, so that space will be extra storage. The look pretty good eh these boats once they are complete?! ....a far cry from the way mine is at the moment.
[/img]
The interior drawing is similar to what I desire, except for the quarter berth - I'd move the galley aft as explained in my last post, and use the rest of the space for storage. The won't be any engine either, so that space will be extra storage. The look pretty good eh these boats once they are complete?! ....a far cry from the way mine is at the moment.
[/img]Layout, etc.
Zane,
I hope you didn't take my comments to mean that you should just live with what you have, even if it's unsuitable; it may have sounded that way.
I agree with what you said: Why have a boat if you can't make it the way you want it. I mean, boats and the sea are one of the last few places you can still make things how you want them and then enjoy (or suffer) the consequences. I hope it stays that way!
I like the layout in the drawing, and I don't think I'd like what you have now, either; perhaps you can salvage some of that nice trimwork and re-use it. I would forego the quarter berth for another cockpit locker. I love lazarette and cockpit locker space.
Just as a point of reference, we used the two settee berths on the Westsail as our sea berths, with lee cloths. I'm racking my brain right now trying to remember if the seat was 24" or 28" wide... In any case, it was in no way dangerous, with the lee cloth, BUT, I was not comfortable in a seaway without adding a few pillows at the sides - without them you just had to do too much work with your muscles to keep from rolling back and forth. The pillows worked fine though - and narrower berths wouldn't have been all that comfortable for normal sleeping.
We did somewhat miss having a settee and table while offshore. Because we each made up our own bunk, both the settees were "out of commission" as regular furniture. Luckily, we had a sit-down nav station, so that or the cockpit was used for taking meals and sitting down while on watch. This also helped to keep salty clothes off the berths, which we were pretty careful about. I'm not sure how folks keep salt spray out of the head of a quarterberth...
Of course if you're single-handing, you'll have both a berth and a lounging settee already, even with no quarterberth.
I love the "watch seat" concept that the Pardeys have on their current boat, "Taleisin."
The Frances is a great boat!
--- Rachel
I hope you didn't take my comments to mean that you should just live with what you have, even if it's unsuitable; it may have sounded that way.
I agree with what you said: Why have a boat if you can't make it the way you want it. I mean, boats and the sea are one of the last few places you can still make things how you want them and then enjoy (or suffer) the consequences. I hope it stays that way!
I like the layout in the drawing, and I don't think I'd like what you have now, either; perhaps you can salvage some of that nice trimwork and re-use it. I would forego the quarter berth for another cockpit locker. I love lazarette and cockpit locker space.
Just as a point of reference, we used the two settee berths on the Westsail as our sea berths, with lee cloths. I'm racking my brain right now trying to remember if the seat was 24" or 28" wide... In any case, it was in no way dangerous, with the lee cloth, BUT, I was not comfortable in a seaway without adding a few pillows at the sides - without them you just had to do too much work with your muscles to keep from rolling back and forth. The pillows worked fine though - and narrower berths wouldn't have been all that comfortable for normal sleeping.
We did somewhat miss having a settee and table while offshore. Because we each made up our own bunk, both the settees were "out of commission" as regular furniture. Luckily, we had a sit-down nav station, so that or the cockpit was used for taking meals and sitting down while on watch. This also helped to keep salty clothes off the berths, which we were pretty careful about. I'm not sure how folks keep salt spray out of the head of a quarterberth...
Of course if you're single-handing, you'll have both a berth and a lounging settee already, even with no quarterberth.
I love the "watch seat" concept that the Pardeys have on their current boat, "Taleisin."
The Frances is a great boat!
--- Rachel