Topsides

Scout · Post by **Scout** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:53 pm

Now that the deck on Scout, our Pearson Invicta, is almost complete (except for what seems like rebedding a thousand holes) we are on to the topsides.

I am not to fussy about the quality of work on the topsides, the boat is used for cruising and hopefully many, many daysails and from past experance, will get banged up along the way. We are going to use one part Interlux Brightside paint and do our best roll and tipping it. My question is, what is the best order to paint? Cove stripe (recessed), boot stripe and then topeside? Being that the cove stipe is recessed we may be able to get away from taping it if we paint it before the topsides. However, the boot stripe or the topside will need to be taped after painting depending on which goes on first.

Post by **dasein668** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:49 am

SCOUT wrote:Being that the cove stipe is recessed we may be able to get away from taping it if we paint it before the topsides.

No, I don't think so: that "edge" of the cove is going to easily load with paint and would likely cause runs into the cove area.

I'd be inclined to paint the field, then tape off and paint the cove with a small brush. Boot should be painted after the field too.

I understand your reasoning for going with a single part paint, but I'd consider going with something a bit more durable than brightsides?partially for the reasons you mention above! You'll still end up doing all the prep work anyway, so the cost of final paint isn't that much of a factor in the whole scheme. Brightsides loses it's gloss seemingly overnight in an exterior application, and it simply isn't as hard and durable as an LPU paint. I know that it's cheaper, but it's not THAT much cheaper, frankly, especially since you'll likely want to paint again in two years. Just something to consider.

Post by **Tim** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:57 am

Paint the field first, then the striping. Taping is just one of those things that's a part of the whole process--and it's really not that bad, actually.

Good luck! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:23 am

Paint the topsides, THEN the cove and boot top. On our boat my wife painted the recessed cove stripe using a 1/2 inch artists brush- did a great job.

But then she IS an artist- grin.

On our next haul out I'm seriously considering just bringing the bottom paint up to the top of the current boot stripe and not having a boot stripe. Many cruisers do that and since we use black bottom paint it won't look much different than it does now with the dark blue boot stripe. Makes repaints very much simpler also plus you don't get the slime growth on the boot stripe from splash.

Post by **Tim** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:47 am

While there are practical and good reasons for doing away with a boottop, it's booooooooooooring without it. The boot should always be a striking contrast between hull color and bottom color.

Boottops are the window dressing for a boat and are, in my opinion, extremely important to the success of the appearance of any boat. Anyone who follows this forum knows that I feel rather strongly about how boottops look!

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:07 pm

I recently heard of somebody painting a contrasting boot-stripe in the usual way (albeit perhaps without a section of topsides between it and the bottom paint) but with a different color of bottom paint.

I can't imagine it looking very crisp, but I'd like to see it in-person. It would certainly solve the "lapping water eating up my topsides paint" problem.

Rachel

Post by **Tim** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:52 am

I've seen that done, in person. It looks OK, if a bit dull, when fresh, but bottom paint above the waterline just doesn't age that well. Still, it's a little more interesting than just the plain ol' bottom paint color with no accent.

CharlieJ · Post by **CharlieJ** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:28 am

lol- as I said *I'M* considering it. My wife is an artist and she's quite particular about how the boat looks. It's a huge part of her life. We'll more than likely just strike a new boot top 2 inches up and repaint it.

Gives me a really good place to use the laser level I got this past Christmas.

Hirilondë · Post by **Hirilondë** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:34 pm

Some owners of wooden boats would never consider painting a boot top ever. I think the lines of a boat effect how necessary they are to achieving a good look. Boot tops and cove stripes can help reduce the starkness of high free boards. Regardless of whether a boat has one or not I find many boats expose too little bottom paint. It really isn't that ugly, but the slime on topsides or boot top is.

cliffg · Post by **cliffg** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:36 pm

Tim,

I went to Glissando's site and read through your recent work. I was struck by the fact that you removed the cockpit coaming. I am going to be replacing the coaming on my Kittiwake, have the teak already, and was considering the best way to install it, how many screws, etc. Initially, I considered it would be permanent installation but after looking at yours I started thinking. Is there an advantage to being able to remove it? And...how do you secure it so that it is removable?

Thouhgt since this is sort of part of the topsides it would be ok to post here.

Thanks

Post by **dasein668** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:58 pm

On Dasein the coamings are installed with 8 #12 self-tapping screws through the coamings into the fiberglass. I used finish washers and oval head screws on the exposed face of the coaming.

I don't know exactly how the Kittiwake's coamings are normally set up so that may or may not work for you.

Haivng them removable is highly desireable, imo; not only is it great for varnish work, having them removed during the winter minimizes the likelyhood that I'll damage them through stupidity or accident while working on the boat.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:08 pm

Ditto, except that I use machine screws.

Post by **Tim** » Wed May 16, 2007 6:25 am

Removable coamings are nice because it makes annual maintenance much easier. Of course, you're faced with visible fasteners, but that's not really so bad.

I used #12 self-tapping screws and finish washers, just as Nathan described above. I don't really like finish washers, and hindsight has taught me that finish washers work better with flat head screws (as opposed to oval head). One could also choose flat washers with pan head screws, which wouldn't be any more obtrusive than finish washers when all was said and done. Finish washers, with their sharp backs, do dig into the wood quite badly. Of course, one only notices this when the fasteners are removed, so it doesn't really matter.

For some future removable coaming on some future boat or project, I have thought of drilling a flat hole partway into the coaming (Forstner bit), filling that with epoxy, and then creating a careful countersink within the epoxied area, which ought to hold a flat head screw flush with the coaming, while still providing the support of an external washer. Maybe.

Machine screws, tapped into the support behind the coaming, would be a nice choice also, as Mike said. I would certainly entertain doing this the "next" time as well. I used self tappers because that's what held in the original coamings. Since there's a wooden backing strip behind the fiberglass in way of the coaming screws, the self-tappers are working fine despite annual removal and reinstallation.

cliffg · Post by **cliffg** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:52 am

Thanks for all the information. I had intended to countersink and plug the screws but now I am rethinking this. Originally I would have used 5200 permanent caulk/adhesive but with a removable installation wondering if one caulk would be superior to another in this application.

Thanks again.

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:03 pm

Thanks for all the information. I had intended to countersink and plug the screws but now I am rethinking this. Originally I would have used 5200 permanent caulk/adhesive but with a removable installation wondering if one caulk would be superior to another in this application.

I would suggest using no caulk at all. At most, a little around each screw hole.

Tim Mertinooke · Post by **Tim Mertinooke** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:04 pm

I would advise against using 5200 for this application. A caulk for the coaming is to keep water from running behind it, thereby keeping your fanny dry. Using fasteners that make for easy removal of the coaming as suggested by others is the way to go in my opinion. A while back there was a guy replacing a split coaming on his CD25D and the PO had bedded them with 5200. It took a chisel, hammer, and wonder bar to remove it.
Here is a link to the discussion.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... aming+5200

Post by **dasein668** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:18 pm

I use no caulk at all. If I was concerned about water coming into the cockpit from behind the coamings (which I'm not?if there's that much water coming over the decks, I'm not lounging on my behind!) I would install the coamings "dry" then run a small bead along the joint between the coaming and the deck. 3M 101 or similar.

Tim Mertinooke · Post by **Tim Mertinooke** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:24 pm

dasein668 wrote:I would install the coamings "dry" then run a small bead along the joint between the coaming and the deck. 3M 101 or similar.

The bead is what I was alluding too. I did that on my Typhoon and it worked well. The only problem with the polysulfide is that UV affects it's color. My nice white clean bead was yellow by the end of the season. I guess you could paint it carefully with a small brush. I plan to do just that when I put my finished coamings on my Ariel next week.

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:43 pm

Life-caulk (a polysulfide) comes in a "mahogany" color that isn't all that obnoxious.

Post by **Tim** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:10 am

The amount of water that runs behind an un-bedded or un-caulked coaming is of the nuisance quantity only, and I prefer no sealant at all since it makes removal and cleanup easier. The coamings actually seal surprisingly tightly against the fiberglass all on their own, though water can--and does--make its way through the slight gap. Typically, this only happens during washdowns, rainstorms, or times of high spray--all times when other areas of the boat are likely to be wet also.

On rare occasion, I've shipped, over the bow, the thoughtful wake of the latest megayacht to be gracing our pristene waters, which can cause water to bespeckle my otherwise dry decks on calm, sunny days, with the inexorable result of a few drips in the cockpit.

I can't ever see an application for 5200 in the installation of wooden coamings, no matter how "permanently" you chose to install them. Even if you were to bed completely behind the coamings with sealant, something like Dolfinite or polysulfide would be the appropriate choice, not 5200. 5200 is an adhesive sealant for keels and truly permanent installations that require the specific properties of this fine, but often misused, product.

I'd like to have countersunk and bunged screws on my coamings--it looks much nicer--but the convenience of refinishing in the shop, and on the horizontal, far outweighs this, in my opinion.

Post by **Tim** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:13 am

If we're going to be picky, the actual brand name is Life-Calk.

Oh, and while we're at it, Dolfinite is spelled Dolfinite.

Post by **dasein668** » Fri May 18, 2007 8:30 am

Yeah, I've noticed that before. I hate it when companies feel the need to use cutesy misspellings of their product names. Pet peeve. It's caUlk, BoatLIFE and you know it!

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri May 18, 2007 8:52 am

Krispy Kreme is granted a special absolution.

Post by **Tim** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:13 am

Ye Ole Olde Tyme Krispy Calk Kreme at Shoppe Rite

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:26 am

Shoppe Rite Xpress!

Post by **dasein668** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:01 am

Klassy Kar Kare. The ultimate in unclassy.

What's wrong with Crispy Cream? It's no wonder I can't spell to save my life...

Post by **Tim** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:21 am

I admit I've only had Krispy Kreme donuts a couple times (they don't have locations in Maine), and while they were good, they were neither crispy (Krispy) nor creamy (Kremey).

This thread's gone way beyond "off track", but we're having fun, anyway.

cliffg · Post by **cliffg** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:27 am

Well, after I having eaten my fill of Bavarian Kreme Philled Krispee Cream Doeknuts, I thought I'd reply. Thanks for the advice about 5200, I'll install the coamings without any Calk initially and if the water seepage is a problem I can always go back and addit.

As always, the wealth of information available here is astonishing and greatly appreciated.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:51 pm

I love this forum.

I named my dog "Stix" just to have a private laugh at those silly brand-name misspellings. How annoying they are.

R.

Scout · Post by **Scout** » Thu May 31, 2007 7:58 am

We started the second coat this weekend, upon arrival we were greeted by Arcadia (Chris) who has stopped by a few times to see our progress.

Now Chis is an artist (painter!!!) and he gave us some pointers and showed us how to get the paint to the best cosistency, then left, then came back after picking up his son just as we were finishing up. It was so great to get the help, advice and encouagement. Thanks Chris!

Oh, forgot to mention that my taping job done previously was deemed inadequate upon arrival and Chris - well, he did the whole thing (I think, I had run to West Marine) himself.

Yesterday, after work, we put the third coat on. Now we thought we were pros at this point. Should have stopped at coat number two. Don't know if it was because it was so much later in the day....a much warmer hull, or what but we never got the paint to the consistency of the other day, there were white fuzzies milling about and the gnats etc. Will know better how we did this afternoon....today we will do the cove stripe and boot stripe and rudder. We can not wait to just sail this girl.

Below is Chis and the end result of coat # 2.

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Oops, that's not the end result, this is....

After we were finished we dicided to reward ourselves with a drink at the Captains Cove bar and listen to the band "Eight to the bar". We did not dance (:

Anyway, we decided to take some pictures of these Tritons side by side for youins...

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:59 am

Ummm.... those aren't Tritons.

Or at least not REAL Tritons :-)

there were white fuzzies milling about and the gnats etc.

This is exactly what spooks me about painting in my boatyard...

Kudos!

-Britton

Figment · Post by **Figment** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:06 am

yep, I caught a few gnats in my varnish on Monday as well.
Such is life.

She's looking classy now!

Scout · Post by **Scout** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:52 am

Ya know, as we drove away, I said that I that I thought Triton's had teak cockpit combing...

I believe that dark hull to the left of the twins is a Pearson though?

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu May 31, 2007 10:38 am

If Allen will permit me, I stole a picture to post a reminder of what great looking boats Tritons really are :-)

Most Tritons do have the teak combings unless they have been replaced (edit: just noticed Kaholee's combings are off in this picture) A number of Tritons were built under licence on the west coast and had molded fiberglass combings in addition to a number of other small changes.

I think key traits of the Triton are the underwater hull shape, (I could stare for hours...) fairly distinctive coach roof (some would say 'ugly') with forward opening ports (usually) on the upper coach roof, Jumper stays on the mast can often identify a Triton a mile away or more.

Sadly, badly weathered teak, pealing paint, and an overall look of neglect also tend to make Tritons stand out in a crowd :-(

-Britton

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:58 pm

Oh goodie, I love an Invicta update.

Those last boats are Albin Vegas, btw (you probably know this but have "paint brain" temporarily). Interesting to see the visual affect of two such different paint color choices on the same model boat side-by-side.

Rachel

Post by **Tim** » Thu May 31, 2007 4:48 pm

Scout wrote:I believe that dark hull to the left of the twins is a Pearson though?

That's a Tartan 34C.

Rachel wrote:Interesting to see the visual affect of two such different paint color choices on the same model boat side-by-side.

Two? Lame... ;<)

How about 4, all with different paint schemes? (Sorry for the bad lighting.)

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu May 31, 2007 5:59 pm

How did I miss all those other posts before mine pointing out that those weren't Tritons? I thought I'd hit that little box to take me to "most recent post"...

Never mind!

R.

Scout · Post by **Scout** » Thu May 31, 2007 8:56 pm

Rachel, perhaps the fumes have passed through your neck of the woods?

Albin Vega's, eh? I sure did not know that.

Tonight: taped, sanded and primed the boot stripe, then painted the 'barn door' rudder with some special (toxic) 'red' paint. It was neon orange!!!! No pictures as I had to run home and lug two bookcases from outside (getting primed and painted, of course) into the garage before the rain began. If I never see a paint brush again, I don't think I'd cry.

8 more days till the splash!

Post by **dasein668** » Thu May 31, 2007 9:39 pm

Geez, Tim. That picture makes Dasein and Glissando look almost identical!

Scout · Post by **Scout** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:29 am

Well, guess what...Brian ran into the owner of one of the twins, asked him if that was a Triton (this was all before I posted) and he said no, it's a Pearson Ariel. Then Brian said something about the other one behind - or in front of it - and the guy NEVER EVEN NOTICED.

Who's on first?

Post by **Tim** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:47 am

Clearly that owner knows what his own boat is, but he couldn't have been the owner of one of those Vegas if he owns an Ariel, since the boats in the photo are both clearly Vegas and not Ariels. This isn't open to interpretation: it's fact.

The other guy probably didn't notice a twin to his own boat because there probably isn't a twin Ariel right next door. Now, find the owner of one of the Vegas and see if they noticed. Probably.

This is all getting too confusing! Let's move on now:

More pictures of your completed hull paint, please! She's looking good.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:41 am

The only thing missing from the picture is Tim in the dinghy with some oars. ;)

Whitefield Marina. :D

Plastic Classic Forum

Topsides

Topsides

Re: Topsides

Cockpit Coaming, etc

Thanks