Just Aquired a Triton

[Reu]

I just bought Pearson Triton hull # 455 located in Juneau Alaska. It needs lots of love. I could, and likely will go into great detail in the coming months, but right now, it's raining, and the boat dosen't have a bilge pump.

I am a rookie, I have never sailed, and most of what I know about boats pertains to skiffs. Thus I will likely be asking some rather ignorant questions for a time.

One thing I do know is that I need a couple bilge pumps in there. Which in turn means I need a battery charger. When I look on-line at options, it takes a great deal of time sorting everything out, and usually I am left with more questions. I am looking at installing 2 Rule pumps, perhaps a 2000gph and a 1500gph. Any advice on the charger setup, location?

Also, I have to change the zincs, but before I jump in the drink, can anyone tell me the likely size and locations of said zincs? The water is a tad cold here this time of year, and I would like to limit my time in it.

I plan on pulling the boat this spring (likey the first time it's been pulled in at least a few years) and give the bottom a good sanding, and repaint. Before that, I may jump in the water and gently scrape the bulk of that growth off. Any thoughts/suggested precautions regarding such a procedure?

Any and all assistance is welcome, thanks in advance.

[Tim]

Bilge pumps: if the boat leaks enough that auto pumps run down your battery (thus requiring a charger), then fix the leaks. There's really no two ways about it: leakage of that sort is untenable.

If the stuffing box leaks, tighten it or repack it or, if you have to, temporarily seal it to stem the flow until you can haul out and do it right. If you have freshwater (rain, etc) leaks, figure out where they come from and deal with the flow. If through hulls leak, figure out a way to seal them until you can haul out and fix them correctly. Make sure all your hoses are decent; I'll bet they're not.

Faced only with the sort of nuisance water (such as that from a properly-adjusted traditional stuffing box) that should enter your boat at any time, no electric pump will run down a battery within a period of a few months, assuming there are no other draws on said battery power. And don't ever rely on a bilge pump, with or without battery charger, to keep a boat afloat.

Too many boats negligently sink at the dock from ongoing leaks and over-reliance on bilge pumps to keep up. Concentrate instead on dealing with the leaks, and your pump won't run down the battery; it won't run at all, in fact. Then, take your time and figure out if [a] you need a charger in the first place and what the best option is if you do. I don't have one and have never seen a need, but situations vary, of course.

Zincs: you might have one on the prop shaft, but many (most) Tritons do not, thanks to a lack of clearance. The only way to know what you have is to look, unfortunately.

Beyond the prop shaft, you're not likely to have any zincs at all.

[Reu]

Tim,
Thanks for the advice, sounds logical. I just bailed the bilge out by hand not 40 minutes ago, and it wasn't all that bad. It seems to only get more water when we are having a good rain.

Then again, I was standing over my bilge when I was just down there, and I noticed the water line from my water tank runs directly through my bilge... and there was a cute little piece of duct tape right in the middle. No sooner had I chuckled to myself that this meager piece of tape sure would make a sorry fix for a leak, than I saw a drop of water liberate itself from an unseen crack hidden by the tape. So I think that this is also a contributing element to water in the bilge. I'll likely just get as much of the water out of that tank, and leave it as close to empty as I can.

I will haul her out this spring, but I will be pressed for time, as there is no capacity to trailer her out of the boat yard. I will be picking your brain as to a priority list when I do get her out. Thanks for your time.

[bcooke]

Harry James started a couple of threads when he bought this boat a while back. There isn't a ton of information but if you use the forum search function and enter "455" you will get a couple of threads. I think there is more in the Rambling section but I can't locate them with a quick search.

I agree with Tim. These boats really should not leak much. If they do then you should attend to it. Bottom growth and zincs are a non-issue IMHO. Worry about the leaks and forget these minor things. If you need a pump to keep the boat afloat that should be your real priority.

Normally, I would say a decent solar panel will maintain occasional bilge pump operation for quite a while but considering where you are there is probably not enough sun to make it work.

You could always "taste" the water in the bilge and find out if it is fresh or salt water. If you do that please tell us what you find :-)

-Britton

[Reu]

bcooke, thank you for that info on the previous owner. I would not have known that. I will definetly seek out any info.

You are spot on about the lack of sunlight. This place gets someting like 100 inches of precipitation anualy. But let me tell you, when the sun comes out... it is paradise...

What you and Tim are saying makes great sense. I fully intend to prioritize the elimination of sources of leaks. I have put up a good size tarp over the aft half of the vessel and it seems to have slowed the in-flow.

I did taste the bilge water last night, just a tad on a finger tip, as I had just stirred the bilge up after dumping a bit of water out. It was decidedly fresh water, though I will have another taste test again before I stir it up.

This boat has been in the water for multiple years, and thus I am worried about the prop and prop-shaft. If I did get this engine running (atomic 4), would I want it running? I am very interested in trying to find alternative means of propulsion at this point. The engine, though it does turn over and it does have compression, is a sorry sight. And my instincts are naturally assaulted when I see such a large lump of rust in my boat.

A question about the bilge, I only have one access point for it. Based on some reading on this forum, it seems that many people have multiple bilge access points. My water tank appears to be about in the middle of the boat, where do I access this tank? Do I just take the floor up?

Another major source of sleeplessness is the thru hulls. Simply put, I've seen only 2 sea cocks on board. The engine one apears to be largely seized. This is a priority for me to address, I want sea-cocks on all thru hulls. Am I nuts? Advice? Thanks again for all comments.

[bcooke]

Reu, I seem to remember some talk about #455 being trucked up from CA a year or so ago so I am not sure the boat has been in the water all that long. I could be confusing it with another boat Harry was looking at too so I am not sure.

Does your boat have the forward facing ports? I think I remember reading that #455 was one of 2-3 Tritons that were built without the forward ports. My memory is pretty bad though.

With a reasonable amount of maintenance the Atomic Four is a decent engine. The problem is that few of them receive even a glance over once a year. Looks can be deceiving so I would not give up on it yet. A new engine is going to dramatically raise the cost of the boat so cross your fingers.

My Rhode Island built Triton has/had three access points in the cockpit sole. They were just lift up sections. My water tank is in the V-berth area. Your California built boat probably has something different. I vaguely recall built in fiberglass water tanks but there is a lot of variability so I really don't know. The fact that you have fresh water in your bilge is good. At least your boat doesn't have a hole in the hull.

Definitely not crazy about wanting seacocks on all thru-hulls. If anyone tells you differently just walk away; they are beyond hope and not worth trying to convince. That said, what you have has been in there a while so you are probably going to be fine for another couple of months before you can haul it out. Don't lose too much sleep. Changing them out is a one day job (give yourself three for surprises along the way) so don't panic about it. Definitely put them high up on the priority list though. A broken seacock is one of the few things that can have a fast and negative impact on your boating experience.

Pictures would be nice...

-Britton

[Rachel]

If this is the Triton that Mr. James was fixing up, he posted about it some on the Triton e-mail list, including photos.

I remember it having an unusual color combination: Perhaps creamy yellow topsides and a turquoise deck? Is this the Triton that's your new boat?

I also seem to remember that it might have been a West Coast triton that had beefy bronze fixed-port frames.

Now Britton and I can test our memories :)

Rachel

[Tim]

Changing them out is a one day job (give yourself three for surprises along the way) so don't panic about it.

Britton's right that the actual installation of new fittings is a relatively straightforward job that can be completed in one day, but typically there is a fair bit of other work required before getting to that point.

Stuff like removing the old fittings (which can be the worst and most time-consuming part of the job depending on access), relocating holes (often required to allow clearance for seacocks and new hoses when none existed before), preparing and installing backing blocks, and related work. Once you get all this complete, which might take several real days of work, then the actual new installation is very quick.

I'd suggest you allow at least a weeks' haulout to tackle a whole-boat seacocking (plus whatever other work you might want to accomplish while on the hard).

[Reu]

Thank you for the input. I do have pictures, and will try to figure out how to post them.

I can tell you that to the best of my knowledge, #455 is an East Coast boat. There is still a little badge on the rear transom that says Pearson Triton, Hull # 455, and then the location of it's manufacture, forgive me I can't remember exactly where it was, but it was East Coast. In addition I have the wooden coamings.

There are no forward-facing ports in the cabin. Pitty, I like as much natural light as possible.

Until I can haul her out, I am going to be giving her a good scrub, try to clean up the wood. I will also see if I can get the engine running, and close up any and all leaks I can find.

The big support beam inside, under the mast area seems solid, dry, and generaly in good shape. But the interior of the head area and the v-birth has some remarkably nasty linoleum stuff that someone almost certainly mistakenly put up. That has got to go. I know it will be a big mess, but it is so crusty now that it is mostly falling off anyway.

Also I have to appologize in advance for my lacking knowledge of sailing terms. Most all of my expirience is operating power boats, so the learning curve will be steep.

[Reu]

Regarding the color of the vessel (#455), it is white (I use the term loosely), pretty much everywhere.

Interestingly, about 3 boats down from me is (I believe) another Pearson Triton. It seems to be a West Coast boat (fiberglass coamings), and it does have bright blue decks and cabin, with a white hull. Perhaps this is the boat belonging to Mr. James. Haven't seen the owner on it recently, though I noticed he left his sail uncovered.

[Ganges #363]

Here's the link to pictures of Harry James aperture filling project, also includes a picture of his boat on a trailer showing off her new retro paint job:

http://www.tritonclass.org/mir/144ps1.html

Bill
Ganges #363

[bcooke]

I had a chance to check my database this evening. As it turns out I think Harry was wrong about his boat being #455 or else there are two that have become identified by that number. (There are a few others that conflict over hull #'s) or as I think about it, maybe #455 was the boat Harry was thinking about buying but he bought the California boat instead.

For what its worth, my info shows #455 being (formerly) owned by Michael & Annette Lehmkuh of Anchorage Alaska, no forward ports, built in Rhode Island, (formerly) named Quasar. This sounds like you boat you have Reu, just like you said.

-Britton

[Reu]

Ganges #363, those pictures in the link you posted seem to be the very boat that is just a couple boats down from me. After seeing that trailer, I am wondering if he still has it...
bcooke, I think that you are correct in that Mr. James bought the West Coast boat. Anyway, thank you very much for all your information.

At this point I am thinking that my first priority is to fix all the leak points, and clean/paint the bottom. This will entail removal of all deck hardware, and reglassing the decks.

On that note, has anyone left the balsa out and just built it up with glass? Being in Alaska (a very soggy place), I hate anything that relies on wood for structural integrity.

It seems to me that there isn't much point in spending a lot of money on the interior until the exterior is secure. Does this make sense?

Regarding pictures, I will post some. Bare with me while I figure it out.

[Tim]

[Tim]

I have put up a good size tarp over the aft half of the vessel and it seems to have slowed the in-flow.

I did taste the bilge water last night, just a tad on a finger tip, as I had just stirred the bilge up after dumping a bit of water out. It was decidedly fresh water, though I will have another taste test again before I stir it up.

Have you checked your cockpit drains and hoses, and the associated sidedeck/cockpit seat drains? The fact that you seem to have reduced the inflow of water by covering the aft part of the boat could indicate that your cockpit drains are the culprit, or at least part of it.

The original fiberglass tubes connecting to the cockpit are known for their propensity to crack over time, as they were often not very well installed. And it's almost certain that the hoses you have there are ancient as well; access is tough, so these tend to be neglected (and all the more so on truly neglected boats).

Anyway, just a thought of where to start looking for those freshwater leaks. Good luck!

[bcooke]

I would vote that balsa coring is fine and preferable.

Remember, water is not going to pass through the fiberglass skins into the core, only through holes drilled through the fiberglass skins. These holes should all have solid plugs of thickened epoxy around them isolating the core from any possible water intrusion.

I think I found the most complicated way to say that...

Anyway, lots of info and pictures around here if you need more info about isolating the core from water.

Solid coring, i.e. solid fiberglass decks are pretty heavy with the weight up high where you don't want it. Plus, it is just expensive and more time consuming to build.

-Britton

[Tim]

On that note, has anyone left the balsa out and just built it up with glass? Being in Alaska (a very soggy place), I hate anything that relies on wood for structural integrity.

It's not the balsa core's fault. It's sloppy construction practices and improper hardware installation and maintenance. We, the boating public and industry, have all collectively learned a lot about proper cored construction practices in the 40+ years that it's been common. There are several specific reasons why Pearson cores from the 60s have failed, and all of them are completely avoidable now that we know better.

There are simple ways to ensure that a newly-cored structure will remain bonded and free from outside influences (i.e. water) for an indefinite amount of time. Ignoring the improved methods and materials would certainly be likely to lead to another failure, but with proper installation practices there's no reason to assume that a new balsa (or other) core will ever fail, frankly.

Epoxy resin, improved fiberglass materials, and the knowledge of 40 years of hindsight take care of the issues that led to the wet or damaged core in boats, assuming one is willing to learn from those earlier mistakes.

Balsa is actually an outstanding core material, past and present. It has highly desirable properties when used in a properly-constructed sandwich laminate. Yes, it needs to remain dry. So do all core materials; I don't care what kind of foam or whatever you use, if you allow water in and allow it to sit for 40 years, something unpleasant is going to occur. Neglect and poor installation practice will do this to any material, given sufficient time.

Use something else if you want--there are plenty of viable core options--but don't even consider solid decks as a core replacement. You'll lack stiffness and strength, and will add weight and unnecessary expense and labor.

It's simply wrong to assume that structural wood on a boat will become and/or remain wet. It only happens because something wasn't done right in the first place, or because something's been neglected, or some combination thereof. Water isn't the kiss of death to wood; neglect is. Only neglected wooden structures fail, on or off the water.

Keep the boat dry. Fix leaks. Fix the decks and keep hardware isolated and well bedded. Maintain the boat. Clean and keep clean the bilges and lockers (which removes salt and residues that absorb moisture). All these things aren't optional if you want your boat to last and remain in good condition: they're required.

There's lots of information available about coring and proper isolation/hardware installation practices on this forum and elsewhere on line, as well as other sources. Check it out.

[Ganges #363]

Reu,

Harry James regularly posts on this site:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/triton/messages

Perhaps you can contact him there.

Bill
Ganges #363

[The Good Goose]

Reu
I recored my boat with Nida core and was very happy. That being said the sections of my boat where the balsa was not intruded into were rock solid. It seems to me that the nida core is less likely to be damaged by water getting in somewhere unexpected. I believe it may be a little cheaper too. I think it should be readily available as it seemed to be the core of choice for a lot of work in my area.

This was seven years ago so maybe some others can comment on any negatives. I haven't been paying much attention now that my core is done. If I were doing it again I believe I would use Nida core It seems great.

Good luck on the new boat

Brock

[Reu]

Thank you all for your information. I will try to contact Mr. James.

Tim, thank you for posting my pictures. I will try to forward some more when I can.

Spent most of the weekend scrubbing and poking/proding. I added heaters in the boat, and air dryers, it is amazing the difference this makes.

The position that balsa core is sufficient, and lighter makes a great deal of sense, I just want to do everything in my power to make sure that I don't have to do this again anytime soon. Or better yet, ever.

Thanks again for this great info, and general support. It can make all the difference. I will be inquiring as I progress, and the weather warms a bit.

[Ganges #363]

Reu,

Here is a description of the restoration of 'Head Over Heels'. It has a hull color similar to yours, gives you an idea of how well the original gel coat can be brought back. Your boat is in much better shape to start with, though.

http://members.tripod.com/~suter/march9 ... heels.html

Bill
Ganges #363

[Reu]

Ganges #363, that is impressive. I have been mulling over in my head if I want to repaint the top side, as well as the bottom, or just the bottom.

I have noticed that the gel-coat above the water line looks pretty good, outside of general oxidation and some patchy yellowing. I am yearning for the day it gets warm enough, and dry enough to go nuts with some rubbing compound. I'll do it properly when I get her out of the water, but until then, I've got to polish something.

I like what you have done with the interior. I have a hard time keeping myself from dreaming about all the cool things I could do. This is mostly because I know I need to first restore and make good the exterior of the vessel. No point in putting in new head liner if it is going to get stained when next it rains.

Thanks again for the great link.

[Ganges #363]

Reu,

'Head Over Heels' belongs to Rob Squire, and is #96. It would be great if my boat looked like that, but I'm nowhere close.

Bill
Ganges #363

[keelbolts]

I haven't read all the above posts so I might be repeating what somebody already said, but you can get one of those zinc guppys, clamp it onto the prop shaft INSIDE the boat, and hang it over the side. Works as well as the collar zinc and keeps you out of the water until it warms up or you haul out.

[gone2ddogs]

On the subject of leaks. My Triton was taking on rain water this winter until I covered the back half with a tarp also. While replacing the stuffing box hose last weekend I found the leak with the back of my head. I was laying on the engine when a light drizzle started and suddenly I had a torrent of water poring down my back from..... the inspection cover. I never realized that little cover could leak so much, but it's right by the sculper drains and water must puddle up there. Next project replace old bronze inspection plate with larger hatch and a good seal.

John
SV Silver Girl Triton Yawl #15

[Jason K]

An access hatch in the cockpit sole is critical on a Triton. You'll be glad that a leak prompted the improvement.

[Reu]

Keelbolts, thanks for the zinc suggestion. I am going to get we this weekend, but if it dosen't work, I'll fall back on that method.

Why is an access hatch in the cockpit sole critical on a Triton? There is currently a round hatch, perhaps 6-8" in diameter. What am I missing?

Thanks again for all this great info.

[Tim]

There is currently a round hatch, perhaps 6-8" in diameter. What am I missing?

Mostly the ability to shrink yourself to mouse-like proportions so as to work in the area beneath.

The problem with that little hatch is that it's only big enough to look through, or to get one arm through, but not to look through and get an arm through, and not to get two arms through. A larger hatch makes access to the critical components (scuppers, hoses, transmission, shaft and coupling, stuffing box, and other things) much easier, which makes fixing everything that's likely to be wrong a lot easier, which in turn means these critical things won't be neglected in the future.

[Zach]

Nice boat, I like the yellow. She still has chrome on the deadlights!

Whats the "Scoop" on the port side in front of the opening portlight in the head?

Is that a window in bridge deck of the cockpit? I've pondered that one but haven't seen one in action before!

That blasted round access hatch can be painful. I got both hands stuck in it, and had streaks up and down my right arm for a few months after working on the stuffing box.

[Reu]

Well, I got wet this weekend. I am here to report that the effects of global warming are not yet felt here. A friend and I got in the drink and went nuts with a couple of scrapers, brushes and even a zinc. That was a lot of growth. But I am happy to report that it looks significantly better, and it is sitting higher in the water to boot.

We managed to get most all of the growth off, with only about 500lbs of air left in the scuba tanks.

I am also very relieved to report that there is no significant damage below the water line. I feel like celebrating. The keel looks good. Nothing beyond minor dings and scratches on the gel coat.

I could not get that zinc on however, as there is no apparent room on the prop shaft for a collar zink. I will continue to address this, when I finally thaw out, or when the summer starts, which ever comes first.

Zach, the scoop on the port side that you mentioned is evidently just a vent. There is little more than a thick piece of wire mesh separating the outside from the inside. As to your other questions, forgive me, I'm not sure where the "bridge deck" is? On that note, what are "deadlights". All of my expirience is with power boats, and generally we don't use terms like these.

Thanks for all the continuing information.

[Zach]

Hey Reu, Thats good news!

Sorry about the lingo! The bridge deck is the part of the cockpit that you step over while going down below. (You are stepping through the companion way.) On some boats the cockpit sole (what your standing on while holding the tiller) is flush the whole way forward, and the hatch boards go all the way down to it.

Without the bridge deck its easier to get in and out, but its safer to have one in case a wave ends up in the cockpit, not as much water will end up down below. Yours has a circle shape on it, and I'm wondering if its a window.

As far as the glass windows go on boats, opening ones are "Port Lights" and ones that are fixed mounted are called "Dead Lights."

Thanks,

Zach