Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:56 pm

I have an Atomic Four not-starting problem that I would appreciate your thoughts on. I've tried to think of anything that would be pertinent, and to list it here (basically in the order I did things):

1) The engine is in overall good condition. It was last run about two years ago, and was properly winterized.

2) I had the engine out, carburetor and fuel pump off (orifices protected). I cleaned the flame arrestor.

3) The engine is now back in and everything is hooked back up the way it was (all labelled as it came out).

4) A new Moyer electric fuel pump is installed.

5) A new gas tank is installed, and a new fuel filter spin-on cartridge.

6) Brand new gas is in the tank.

7) I have reversed the winterizing steps and put in all the various drain plugs, tightened the alternator belt, etc.

8) It has plenty of clean oil.

9) It turns smoothly with the hand crank.

10) The electric starter cranks happily.

11) The new electric fuel pump is pumping (I can hear it) and there is fuel at the carburetor (system was dry when I began; after a while I took off the hose that runs between the fuel pump and the carburetor and looked and there was fuel).

12) There is spark (by the way, engine has Indigo electronic ignition).

13) The engine starts and runs on starting fluid (Ooh, sounds totally cool! Would you believe it's the first time I've ever heard one run? Even after ordering parts for them for years :))

14) Without the starting fluid (or when it runs out) there is no catching, no almost starting, no poor running. Just doesn't start.

15) I had the key on, and the choke in various positions (out at first of course). Throttle at 1/4 on like I read was recommended (at first) but also tried other positions (such as all the way "on" when I thought perhaps it was flooded).

16) Oil pressure gauge shows oil pressure.

I really don't know what I'm doing with engines, but my guess is ... a clogged jet in the carburetor? Something in the carburetor? It has the black, "cast" style carburetor (replaced from original but not super recently). The outside of the carburetor looks clean and well cared for.

(By the way, the boat is on the hard but I had the intake hose in a 5-gallon bucket of water with a garden hose feeding the bucket as necessary.)

Does anyone have any theories, more questions for me, or ideas? Need photos?

If it is the carburetor.... aaag, I suppose I have to remove it again? :wilts:

Thank you in advance :)

Rachel

Aweigh329 · Post by **Aweigh329** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:16 am

I'm guessing stuck needle and seat (float) in carb. Had the same problem a while back.

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:10 am

I concur: carburetor. You did not say that you'd pulled it apart and cleaned it as part of your recommissioning. It's time.

Seems to me that I recall that the passageways which feed the bowl and the jet are not all that easy to clean. Buy a couple cans of the spray carburetor cleaner and satisfy yourself that the solvent comes through the various orifices. Use lacquer thinner for the bulk cleaning; it's cheaper.

Oh, and good luck! I'll be thinking of you as I pull the carb off 'Big Bertha', the huge snow blower that failed me on 2 March.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:16 am

Edited to add that I've now done some checking around (hadn't had time yesterday as I was out [up?] on the boat all day).

I started by looking at carbs/parts on Moyer Marine's excellent catalog page, just so I could visualize things, and then decided to give them a call. For the first time ever I got Mr. Moyer himself (whoo).

At any rate, once he knew which carburetor I had, he said that this one has a thingie (hmm, not sure the technical term as I can't read my writing there, but it looks a little like a radiator petcock) on the bottom that controls a tapered needle that affects .... (eek, I was taking notes a mile a minute)... the main jet?

Moyer recommended that I back this out two turns and then try to start it. Not to run it like this but just to see if it will start. Then turn it all the way in, which apparently reams out said... jet; then back it out to about where it was. He said this has a good chance of fixing the problem, because the float rarely sticks on this model carburetor. (Although apparently it is possible to also tap on the side of the carburetor to potentially unstick that.)

So, it sounds worth it to try the above procedure. If it works perfectly, great. If it works partially, well that at least tells me where to go from there.

At that point, I'll re-activate my questions below, but for now please don't take a lot of your time answering them (I don't want to edit them out completely as others may have read them between when I posted them and now.)

**********************

Jim: I'm assuming you were you able to fix the problem -- did you take the carburetor apart?

Quetzal: I can't tell if you are talking about spraying cleaner while the carburetor thirstily drinks it in, or if you mean to take it apart to clean it. Could you elaborate a little?

And no, I didn't take it apart before. I saw in the previous owner's records that it had been rebuilt not too long ago, so I decided to try it. Memories of all the wee parts in the carburetor we rebuilt in shop class crept in.

So, a few specific questions:

1) Is it worth trying to spray carb cleaner into the throat of the carburetor while it's on the engine? Even if not to completely repair the problem at least to confirm diagnosis? (Like if it starts to run, even if shakily.)

2) If/when I do remove it, this would be the first time I've done so downstream of the electric fuel pump. Any handy tips for keeping gas from going all over the place (especially specific to the electric pump)?

3) The previous owner left me a kit of enough gaskets and spares to build a couple of new engines (if you could build engines solely out of gaskets and spares). Can I use those even if they are "new but old"? Or do gaskets have a shelf life? Do I need any other parts, do you know?

4) Quetzal, you say the passages are hard to clean. Am I using actual tools, like pipe cleaners and needles? Or just fluids? Is there anything safe to use besides carburetor cleaner or laquer thinner? I ask because I'm not sure I have either of those here, but I have lots of other delicious solvents, such as acetone, meths, Varsol (in parts cleaner machine), etc. Or should I run into town for actual carb cleaner? (not trying to sound lazy - it's an hour-and-a-half round trip is all, so if I have something here, great, I can get started that much sooner).

5) Is this something I can/should attempt without adult supervision? ;)

Thanks!

Rachel

David · Post by **David** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:54 am

Sounds like a clogged float valve or a bad accelerator pump. The carb probably needs to be serviced.

Aweigh329 · Post by **Aweigh329** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:45 pm

Jim: I'm assuming you were you able to fix the problem -- did you take the carburetor apart?

Yes, I took it apart. After experiencing the same symptoms you describe on several hair raising occasions. I found that if the engine is not started on a regular basis the fuel will develop a varnish between the needle and seat effectively glueing it closed. After 2 years of not running this is possible even if you ran the engine until the fuel in the float bowl was used up the last time you shut it down. It does not take much for this needle to stick shut. Mine was stuck shut with no visible residue. Conversely it doesn't take much to break it loose. A wrap on the side of the carb will sometimes do it. But then you still have a gunked up needle and seat. Best to take it apart and clean it. Some carbs have a clip that pulls the needle out of the seat by the falling float as gas if burned. Unfortunately the Zeniths on the A4s don't.

These carbs are really pretty simple. I would not be afraid to take it apart and clean it. As for electric fuel pump/spillage worries, just plug the fuel line at the carb connection with golf tee or the like when you disconnect it from the carb.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:40 pm

Buy a rebuild kit.

Take the carburetor off, hose it all down with carb cleaner, put new parts back in. It will work fine.

You don't have to know how the carb works. Just take out any part that comes in the kit and replace it.

Kudos for figuring out where the trouble is. In the future, as much as I like this forum, Moyer has their own forum just for the A4 and it has much more and much better info there.

As for keeping the gas in the lines, Shut off the fuel valves. You do have fuel shut-off valves don't you? One at the tank and one just before the carb work great.

Or just have a small container ready to catch the fuel. If the fuel could dump in a big way into the bilge you might want to turn your bilge pumps off. A small amount will evaporate rather quickly. Give it more time than you think you need to be safe. I was a bit too quick and lit my car on fire this way once.

I wouldn't mess around with a sticky needle valve. You might be able to 'whack' the carburetor and break it loose but if a needle valve gets stuck in the open position, fuel could continue to siphon/flow into the fuel bowl and spill out into a bilge. A bilge full of gasoline is a bad thing. I have seen it happen before.

David · Post by **David** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:47 pm

Instead of trying to rebuild it yourself Rachel, I would encourage you to take it to a shop that can rebuild it and properly clean it. It sounds like a very simple carb and shouldn't cost much to have it done correctly.

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:57 pm

The carb in my lawn mower is more complicated.

The simplified pictures in the instructional videos are more complicated.

If you take that carburetor to a shop they are going to laugh for a week.

There is a bowl, a float, a needle valve and a jet. All inside a crude housing. Oh, and two butterfly valves (throttle and choke) but just ignore them.

David · Post by **David** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:01 pm

If it is so simple, it should be very easy, quick and inexpensive for a mechanic to rebuild it. Setting and adjusting the float needle is tedious and important to get right, not scoring the jets is important, getting the gaskets on sealed and tightened correctly is important--all minor things to a mechanic, but not something to learn on when it's your boat and it is gasoline. Why not have it done right?

cmartin · Post by **cmartin** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:07 pm

Lots of good advice.

We all have a favorite solvent, sort of like comparing anchors or sealant, but I'll mention Seafoam. On more than a few occasions I've 'fixed' similar carb issues with a good soak with Seafoam. Either use it to clean the carb, put it in the fuel or soak the carb in it, the stuff works; at least for me.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:34 pm

Thanks everyone.

I'm going to try the "built in" method of adjusting the jet first, just to see what it does (I like information, and this is what Moyer suggested so I know it can't hurt). Actually, he started by explaining to me how to take things apart, then when he heard I had the "cast" carburetor, he said "Oh, then you have the lever on the outside that controls a tapered needle that goes into the main jet." So I might as well at least use that :)

Once I have that information, I'll proceed according to what that tells me (and considering the forum's advice).

It does look like the carburetor is pretty basic. And I've removed/installed it once before. Heck, it was a cinch compared to the old, mechanical fuel pump (which was behind the carburetor). Man, that was hard to reach.

Britton, I don't have a fuel shut off valve at the carburetor, but I did install one right at the tank. According to ABYC I needed to do this because the carburetor is below the fuel tank (there was one there with the old gas tank too, but I installed a new one). I didn't think to put a second one at the carb (and there wasn't one there before). I'll keep a container near the fuel line if/when it comes to that.

Here's a diagram, for anyone who's interested. The main jet control is part #56 on the lower right.

PS: David, if I were going to have the carburetor rebuilt, I think I would want to try it myself first, carefully of course. Not so much because of the cost, but because I feel I'd be better able to understand/repair future problems that way.

Aweigh329 · Post by **Aweigh329** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:47 pm

One more thing to consider, It sounds like Moyers is suggesting that the main jet is plugged up. That is a different situation than the float sticking shut. A stuck float will completely stop the flow of fuel thus producing the condition you describe. A main jet problem will usually produce an engine that runs but doesn't run properly. Just more food for thought. Dive in, if you mess it up, buy a rebuilt or better yet a new one.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:07 pm

Thanks, Aweigh,

What you're saying makes sense (although for some reason I understood Moyer to say that the float sticking wasn't the first thing he'd suspect on this carburetor).

If I do end up rebuilding, I think you're right - that is, I'd rather have the experience of taking it apart, even if it meant buying a new one in the end (although I don't think I'd muck it up that badly).

David · Post by **David** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:11 pm

Sooo...what part of that exploded diagram looks like a lawn mower carb? It looks like your basic single barrel carb to me: low speed jet, high speed jet, float bowl, float, float valve, etc.

Good luck with it Rachel

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:31 pm

If it is so simple, it should be very easy, quick and inexpensive for a mechanic to rebuild it.

Except that you are wasting their time. They could be doing something that actually requires their skill and experience so you will be paying their opportunity cost (shop rate). And since there is an annoyance factor there will probably be a minimum charge.

Setting and adjusting the float needle is tedious and important to get right,

There is no adjustment for the float needle. Most of the time you can simply swap out parts and not worry about re-setting the float level anyway.

not scoring the jets is important

You just thread in a new jet. Scoring is a non-issue.

getting the gaskets on sealed and tightened correctly is important

Lay down gasket on bottom half. Put on top half. Run screws through and tighten relatively equally. Sure it is important. But that doesn't mean a monkey couldn't do it correctly either.

I also happen to know that Rachel is well beyond the 'righty tighty' skill level.

Sooo...what part of that exploded diagram looks like a lawn mower carb?

It doesn't. Who said it did?

It looks like your basic single barrel carb to me

It is. A basic single barrel carburetor. That's been my point all along.

Rachel will have no problem getting her carburetor working again.

Aweigh329 · Post by **Aweigh329** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:10 pm

I don't mean to beat a dead horse here but I have to agree with Britton. This ain't rocket surgery. And in my humble opinion if you are going to own an A4 you will eventually need to have a pretty close relationship with either your mechanic or your carb. I would choose the later. By the way Rachel, I have actually driven my boat into the marina and to the slip while my wife sprayed little spurts of started fluid into the carb spark arrestor to keep it running. It took me 3 times of taking the carb apart before I could isolate the problem. If you bang the carb or otherwise do not handle it very gently when removing it the float needle will unstick and thus "fix" itself making it a very elusive problem to diagnose. When you take it apart note if there is gas in the float bowl or not. This will give you a hint as to where to look next.
Have fun and good luck.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:11 am

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Britton. After that I hope I don't accidentally fling the parts into the bilge or something!

And Jim, I agree that it's better to know how things work one's self on a boat, if possible (and with a new, basically bolt-on carb at under $200, I think it's worth experimenting/trying). Also good to know the starting fluid can be used like a can of "Fix-a-Flat" ;)

Chris: Thanks for the SeaFoam note.

I'll report back to let you know how it goes. (By the way, the complete lack of running action does make it sound like a stuck float/seat; not that I didn't believe it before when it was suggested, but looking at the diagram makes it more clear.)

Rachel

Triton 53 · Post by **Triton 53** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:23 am

Rachel

Do not forget to change the carb to intake manafold gasget. A small air leek will give you all sorts problems in the future.

Pete

Jason K · Post by **Jason K** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:48 am

I just whacked mine with a crescent wrench a few times when the needle got stuck. It was simple and it cracked me up when my guests' eyes got a little bit wider after it started. There's only so many times in life when hitting something that's broken will actually make it work; shouldn't those opportunities be savored?

I don't see why you have to complicate things, Britton. (joking, of course)

Good luck Rachel!

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:45 pm

There's only so many times in life when hitting something that's broken will actually make it work; shouldn't those opportunities be savored?

I completely agree ;-)

Popeye1865 · Post by **Popeye1865** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:03 pm

don't know if anyone said it yet but pull the intake hose out of your bucket full of water while your cranking away otherwise your going to fill up your engine with water trying to get it to start!

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:53 pm

Thanks, Popeye, for the reminder.

When I was trying to start it last week I had a mechanic buddy below working that end of things (including the hose/bucket), and I was in the cockpit with the key/starter-button, choke, and throttle. Now the boat is in the water, so we'll be able to use "real" water (and to close the seacock when necessary).

Actually, I was amazed at how little water the engine took in, when it was running. I guess I had expected it to just gulp down water, and to barely be able to keep up with a 5-gallon bucket. Not sure why I thought that way, but I did.

Of course it only has a 3/8" intake (I enlarged the intake seacock from 1/2" to 3/4" but there is still only a 3/8" hole in the engine).

I'm just shopping for a carb. rebuild kit or parts now. In addition to the not starting, I have noticed some gas dripping from the main jet adjuster (on the early cast carbs; it looks like a radiator petcock). I don't usually mind spending money on boat parts, but for some reason the $98 rebuild kit from Moyer is making me cringe.

(A new carb is only a bit over $100 but it's not that easy as then you also have to buy other parts that go along with the new carb but don't fit the old one.)

I'll probably go ahead and order it anyway, but the price just kept me from instantly "clicking" and buying.

Rachel

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:36 pm

I wish I could remember the part number from Napa. They same kit sells for about $30 there.

cmartin · Post by **cmartin** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:49 pm

What about one of these?

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no= ... .mc_id=gb1

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:53 pm

c: The price is more like it - I wonder what's in the kit (as compared to the Moyer kit). I might have to give them a call. Thanks.

Britton: I just wasn't thinking NAPA would have any sort of "kit," but maybe they do. I'll give the Annapolis NAPA a call (they are supposed to be very A-4 savvy).

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:07 am

The Zenith carburetor isn't particular to the Atomic Four. It is used in a wide variety of engines. Or at least it did back in the old days when it was current technology.

If Napa has the particular Zenith part number then they can probably cross reference it for you.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:51 pm

Thanks, I'll do some more calling before I "click." I think the carburetor is a "Zenith 61," for the record.

Rachel

Quetzalsailor · Post by **Quetzalsailor** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:41 pm

R, have you had the success we all predicted for you? Just for the record, I disassembled "Big Bertha's" carb. It was, as predicted, completely gummy inside. Despite a 'thorough' cleaning, it will readily start and run but it will not idle. Clearly, I did not get something clean enough in the 'idle screw' department. I get to take it all apart again.

Perseverance in this, as well as with an A4 carb, will win the day.

Also, for the record, I typed in a great long exposition on cleaning an A4 carb only to have the Forum's log in time out, and if you leave off entering a reply and go to another page, like to re-log in, you loose it all. I was so ****** that I went back to work!

Post by **Tim** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:06 pm

Admin wrote:The time-out is set to 60 minutes. If this is not long enough, consider choosing the "always keep me logged in" option, which will eliminate this particular issue for you.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:04 pm

Quetzal,

First of all, thanks for taking the time to compose a long post, and I[m sorry that you lost it. (Another) option for future is to highlight and "copy" a long post before you navigate away or leave the computer, if it's still in progress (learned the hard way on the Internet in general).

I haven't got to the carburetor yet, because, well... I've sold the boat. I'm still going to be taking care of the carburetor, but the new owner's schedule and wishes are now part of the picture. The sale was in progress when I first posted, and then also I thought about making a separate announcement post, but it seemed kind of grandiose (and then too I was protecting myself a bit with denial and also not wanting to announce prematurely).

I wasn't thrilled to be selling, but with my hours at work being cut in half (and soon to be eliminated altogether) I needed to. Of course then I proceeded to finish up the last details of all those projects I had worked on, so by the time I turned her over she was just right. Augh!

It was bittersweet when the new owner had the mast stepped and then had her launched earlier this week all tidy and ready. I almost couldn't watch, but on the other hand, I'm proud of my baby, so I did (after willing myself to think of fields of happy clover so the yard guys wouldn't see me tear up).

None of the below-waterline work I'd done showed any problems. Whew! (I did some other projects too, but those are the ones you're thinking of when you launch!)

Wow, does she look beautiful afloat! Really, really lovely. It's amazing how a boat can be this big, ungainly thing on land that you climb up and down a ladder (over and over and over) to get tools, bring up supplies, etc. The underwater hull is just this big swath of workspace, as you remove and install things. She bristles with boat stands.

Then you launch and she's a beautiful bird. She moves! When you step aboard, she shifts in a boaty way instead of feeling like a piece of the earth. Wow, what a change! And although she looked great on land; she looks even prettier afloat. Awwww :) Now she's going to live at my dock for a few weeks until the new owner takes her up to the Annapolis area.

I have to run now, but I'l post a photo later.

By the way, the new owner and his family are good people, and I think she'll have a happy home.

Rachel

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:56 pm

Also, for the record, I typed in a great long exposition on cleaning an A4 carb

You mean a long exposition explaining that you put the carb in a bucket and spray the crap out of it with carb cleaner and leave it to soak for a few minutes and spray the crap out of it again and then reassemble?

:-)

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:58 pm

Rachel you just summed up a very true and difficult to express feeling about boatwork.

So with the A30 gone, what are your plans?...

Post by **Tim** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:18 am

Rachel wrote:I have to run now, but I'll post a photo later.

We'll be anxiously awaiting it...

Popeye1865 · Post by **Popeye1865** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:11 pm

they sell dunking cans of parts cleaner. if you remove all rubber seals/gaskets you can soak the carb overnight to loosen up some of the deposits that form in the passages that are not easily cleaned otherwise.

Chris Campbell · Post by **Chris Campbell** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:08 pm

Sorry to hear that you've sold her, Rachel - it's not an easy thing to part with a boat you love - I know! Doing the right thing does not always feel right, that's for sure.

I hope/trust that there will be another boat in your (near) future - and she'll give as much pleasure on launch as you've obviously taken watching this one go in, but without the sorrow!

Good on you for all your hard work on her, also - I feel that time spent restoring boats is time well spent, even if it's not properly rewarded financially (of course I have no idea if your work was or not, but it seems that it seldom is). The knowledge that you've helped to ensure the continued life of a boat, continued enjoyment of her by future owners, etc.

Still hard to see one go.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:31 pm

Tim wrote:
Rachel wrote:I have to run now, but I'll post a photo later.
We'll be anxiously awaiting it...

Tim: I haven't forgotten about the photo - it's just that I have it on my computer at work, and I keep thinking of it when I'm at home.

Chris: Well, I can tell you've sold a boat you loved too. Thanks for your thoughts. I am proud of the work I did on her (much of it thanks to knowledge from this forum) and it does feel good to know I'm sending her on her way in even better shape than when I got her.

I also have an update on the carburetor rebuilding kit. I started by calling NAPA in Annapolis, as they are known for having lots of marine/A-4 parts and parts knowledge. When they said they did not have a rebuilding kit, I was pretty surprised, and said something (nicely) like "Huh, I'm surprised. I called you because you're known to be parts gurus for these." He responded with something like "Well there's lots of stuff we don't carry anymore," and fairly threw down the phone.

Next I called the NAPA that's about 30 miles away, but in a boaty neck of the woods. The fellow there was clearly not sure what he was looking for (I could tell by his questions back to me), but to his credit he did keep on looking. Then he called the manager over, and he got on the phone and said I'd need to find the individual, 5-number code on my particular carburetor. I tried to explain that it was a common carb, and had been on other engines, equipment, etc., and couldn't I just go by the model? But no dice.

Okay... Next I tried Vosbury Marine in the Annapolis; they do a lot of work on A-4s, and I think someone earlier in this thread had reminded me of them. They not only had the kits, but volunteered that they got them from NAPA. I asked if she would mind giving me the part number, since I don't live nearby, because I might be able to then get one at my local NAPA. I did let her know that if I did use mail order, that I would like to give them my business, and she said there'd be no problem in sending me a kit. She also was very cheerful about giving me the part number, and had just about volunteered it before I even asked. What great customer service.

Armed with the part number, I called the 30-mile-away NAPA again, and "Bingo!" they said they could have one by the next day. At that point I realized that now that I had the part number, I could probably get it at my local (10 miles away but not "boaty") NAPA. I apologized for taking his time again, and explained. He said "No problem, but just so you know, that's a "Class C" part (which apparently means very low demand), so they'll probably need to order it too (but he understood about the driving).

So then I called the most local NAPA, which is pretty small and more car-oriented, and... they said they had one sitting on the shelf! I had them put it on hold for me. I wonder how dusty the bag will be? :D

Oh, and... $34. It apparently includes all the parts (i.e. not an abbreviated kit). I'll see when I go to pick it up.

Here, for the record, are the golden, rare, and prized NAPA part numbers:

For the older, cast carburetor like mine (Zenith 61): 21565
For the newer carburetor (not as sure which exact one(s) this covers, but it is the number Vosbury gave me before I double-checked that it was for the older, cast carb, which it was not): 21554

Is there anything as satisfying as finally having a hard-to-find part number? :D

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:18 am

Is there anything as satisfying as finally having a hard-to-find part number? :D

Paying $34 instead of $90?

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:24 pm

Actually $97.44, plus shipping.

I do like Moyer; I've bought things from them in the past and and they can provide more customer support - but I was having a hard time with paying over $100 for the rebuild kit, when it wasn't that much more for a carburetor.

Now we'll see what's in the kit from NAPA and how they compare. Maybe there's a reason (?)

Rachel

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:34 pm

Okay, here is a photo of my (ex) Alberg 30. This is bringing her from the launch ramp over to my dock on the first day with the new owner (he is at the helm - I'm on the dock to "catch" them).

We brought her over with a skiff on the hip since the engine is awaiting carburetor attention.

The misty day was fitting (well, for my mood).

Pretty, isn't she? (says the proud parent, scrutinizing the new son-in-law ;)

Rachel

David VanDenburgh · Post by **David VanDenburgh** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:45 pm

Rachel wrote: The misty day was fitting (well, for my mood).

Pretty, isn't she? (says the proud parent, scrutinizing the new son-in-law ;)

Rachel

You're a strong woman, Rachel. I'm afraid my eyes would be too misty to see anything. And, yes, she's very pretty!

David

Peter · Post by **Peter** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:57 pm

Rachel wrote:well... I've sold the boat.

Just caught up on this thread ... somehow I missed it.

You sold your boat? Rachel ... for once I'm speechless.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:24 am

Peter: I kind of can't believe it myself... It feels really weird.

On a carburetor note, I picked up the rebuild kit* from NAPA today, marveling that they had it in stock. "Oh yeah, we sell those for tractors." Of course things were considerably less casual before I had the all-important part number.

It looks pretty complete, although I'm not going to pierce the wrapping until I'm ready to roll with it. There's even a small "ruler" in there.

Here are photos, showing the box (with the part number for future searchers), the contents, and ... even instructions. Maybe I'll rebuild it in Spanish; "Juego Jiffy" sounds kind of fun.

Made in the U.S., to boot.

*Pardon me, the "Engine Management Product"

Just one question: If I break the seal, can I return or credit it? :/

Rachel

MikeD · Post by **MikeD** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:41 pm

Rachel wrote:well... I've sold the boat.

Like Peter, I just read this thread - having a Yanmar, I confess, I usually skip over anything A4 related. But, I'm very sorry to hear about your boat AND your position Rachel! I know you searched far and wide for your A30 and put a lot into her - I'm wrestling with a similar issue myself.

But, I can only imagine how much it must (to put it bluntly) just simply suck to be "catching" your boat for another owner... Ouch! My heartfelt condolences.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:03 pm

Well, it's sure nice to have friends here who understand in a specific way. "Normal" people get the basic concept, but it's not the same. Thanks so much for your notes.

In a way, I would have preferred that the new owner truck her north, because having her here at my dock is hard; but on the other hand, it is wonderful to see her afloat, and he's dug right in to take care of a few items that were not on my "before selling" list. He's going to be a great owner.

Last night I went aboard her for the first time afloat, and wow, she was all cozy and domestic below (I had everything out and moving blankets down the whole time while I was working on her). And nice to not feel her "stuck" like when on the stands ashore. But yeah, it didn't go unnoticed that I could be living on her right now.

But back to the thread topic, the engine is running now. Wow, they are quiet and smooth! All the years (past, at work, in freshwater locale) that I've ordered parts for A-4s, taken them back and forth to machine shops, etc, I'd never actually heard one run!

While I was out of town for a few days, the new owner installed a freshwater strainer in the boat (I'd taken the original grille off the outside of the through hull and epoxied those holes closed). Then he ran the adjustable carburetor main jet in and out a couple of times and she fired up and ran nicely. Except there was no water being sucked in. Turned out the impeller cover was loose (maybe on purpose from the winterizing since the impeller was new) so it was sucking air instead.

That problem solved, there was still gas dripping (occasionally) from the main jet adjuster. So he took the gasket out and somehow repositioned it (or something like that; I didn't see the process) and now it is not leaking. So he is feeling like he'd rather not mess with the carburetor any further right now but he will take the rebuild kit along with him for future use.

So, engine-not-starting problem solved, and it seems that it was a clogged main jet which was (at least for now) cured by running the adjustable jet in and out a few times (which I didn't know existed when I was first trying).

Thanks very much for all your help on this :)

Rachel

One Way David · Post by **One Way David** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:02 am

I know this is an old thread, but I have some suggestions for future carb rebuilders. This is the same carg on my 1953 Ford NAA Jubilee tractor that I had to rebuild yearly forever. Simple but fickle. Soak them in a gallon can of carb cleaner from NAPA. Go to a music store and buy a violin "E" string. Get the fiddlers steel wire not the wound type. About $5. After soaking overnight, run the wire through every hole you can find in the carb body then soak another 24 hours. Rinse with water and use compressed air to blow out every hole. Reassemble. Voila, fixed. Maybe. The violin wire trick works good on those small engine carbs, like lawnmowers. Hope this helps somebody. Dave

BALANCE · Post by **BALANCE** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:43 am

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:48 pm

BALANCE wrote:Hey! Now you can spend all your time pondering my fix ups and teaching me! (just kidding)

Hee.

Quick, someone send me a boat! ;)

Rachel

bcooke · Post by **bcooke** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:01 pm

ah... never mind...

BALANCE · Post by **BALANCE** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:18 pm

Plastic Classic Forum

Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)

Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)

Re: Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)

Re: Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)

Re: Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)

Re: Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)

Re: Atomic 4 not-starting question (Complete with symptoms!)